Smith illustrated RW Star card suggestive of cups/chalices energy?

[Guest]

I was casually staring at the Star card yesterday, trying to find anything more obvious than the stock meanings available everywhere.  Then I saw the shape of the seven stars.  It’s not a V, it’s like the curved sides of a chalice/cup. While Ace of Cups suggests an energy overflowing from the chalice to the waters, it doesn’t place everything in context.  There’s a bird again, but a dove, rather than the Ibis on the star.  The dove is normally associated with peace, hope after a disaster, if you include the story of The Great Flood, but always “earth bound” issues.  The Ibis is said to refer to spiritual Egyptian and Roman stories of gods protecting spirits on journeys - no longere an earthly issue.  The context of the Star has stepped up a level and widened.  Compared to Ace of Cups, the Star card seems to suggest the whole context: One fluid movement, from the heavens (stars) through a larger chalice, to the physical embodiment, to the earth and the waters below.  Is it a depiction of the greater  “receptive” principle.  The jugs (larger capacity than a cup) seem to be bottomless, continually pouring.  There is no accumulation here, and there is never a state of lack.

Stock meaning might include things like the concept of hope, which has it’s place, though hope perpetually deferred doesn’t make anything better.   Hope isn’t quite as good as what this card might suggest.  If a person was in the flow, so to speak, the orientation and meaning of hope would change.  Usually we define hope quite small: we want something good to happen here on earth, a desire confined by our immediate physical understanding that changes our circumstances because we’ve come to the end of logic, patience, or human resources.  If the star card is a picture of the endless flow of energy, flowing through us and our actions, effecting all parts at the same time, then would we care much about good things happening or not?  Good and bad, we’d be part of the larger everything.  Suspending our earhtly definitions and specific asks, we’d be a vessel for the flow of the heavens, while also part of the heavens (so to speak).  Small hope, defined by us humans, would become Big Complete Hope, defined by spirit.  You might think yeah but...  that would mean... yeah but no.  Does she look miserable? Tortured?  Oppressed? Restricted in any way? She doesn’t even look chilly.

 

Do you think that is there, or am I just making stuff up?  Is that reflective only of RW Christian mysticism?  Do the other decks you work with contain that idea?

[joy]

Hey @Sparrowas you are not talking about a Personal Reading but more discussing the card in general I am moving this thread to 'Individual Card Meanings'.

[Guest]

ok sorry, I'm bad at figuring out what topic is what.

[joy]

No worries @SparrowIn Personal Reading we post readings we did for ourselves or for someone else we want help with. And everything else goes somewhere else. But again, not to worry, the moderators can always move a thread. 🙂

[katrinka]

On 4/13/2021 at 9:30 PM, Sparrow said:

I was casually staring at the Star card yesterday, trying to find anything more obvious than the stock meanings available everywhere.  Then I saw the shape of the seven stars.  It’s not a V, it’s like the curved sides of a chalice/cup.

 

I'd be careful of that. Things look like other things. If I see a deity on a piece of toast, I'm certainly not going to enshrine it - I'm going to eat it.
It can lead to expectation/confirmation bias. This article is about research, but isn't reading cards a form of research? Like researchers, a reader has to remain neutral.
"Confirmation bias can lead to the experimenter interpreting results incorrectly because of the tendency to look for information that conforms to their hypothesis, and overlook information that argues against it."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer-expectancy_effect#cite_note-1

 

Quote

While Ace of Cups suggests an energy overflowing from the chalice to the waters, it doesn’t place everything in context.  There’s a bird again, but a dove, rather than the Ibis on the star.  The dove is normally associated with peace, hope after a disaster, if you include the story of The Great Flood, but always “earth bound” issues. 

 

The dove on the RWS Ace of Cups is just more of Waite's Christian mysticism. It's the descent of the holy spirit. It has a communion wafer in its beak.
The card is using Christian symbolism to express growing feelings.
 

Quote

The Ibis is said to refer to spiritual Egyptian and Roman stories of gods protecting spirits on journeys - no longere an earthly issue. 

 

The Ibis refers to Thoth. There's more to Thoth than that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth#Attributes

 

Quote

Stock meaning might include things like the concept of hope, which has it’s place, though hope perpetually deferred doesn’t make anything better.   Hope isn’t quite as good as what this card might suggest.  If a person was in the flow, so to speak, the orientation and meaning of hope would change.

 

Well yes, and unless badly aspected, that's exactly what the Star is about: being in the flow. It isn't about false hopes. The Star is also called the 'Guiding Light'. It's about knowing that things will be OK, as opposed to just hoping. Even at its worst, it's just a gentle warning to look at things clearly. It's a good card.
 

Quote

 Usually we define hope quite small: we want something good to happen here on earth, a desire confined by our immediate physical understanding that changes our circumstances because we’ve come to the end of logic, patience, or human resources.  If the star card is a picture of the endless flow of energy, flowing through us and our actions, effecting all parts at the same time, then would we care much about good things happening or not?  Good and bad, we’d be part of the larger everything.  Suspending our earhtly definitions and specific asks, we’d be a vessel for the flow of the heavens, while also part of the heavens (so to speak).  Small hope, defined by us humans, would become Big Complete Hope, defined by spirit.  You might think yeah but...  that would mean... yeah but no.  Does she look miserable? Tortured?  Oppressed? Restricted in any way? She doesn’t even look chilly.

 

That's good philosophy, but we're concerned with reading cards. When someone is seated across the table wanting to know about their relationship, job, court case - whatever - they don't want to hear about the endless flow of energy and the larger everything. They want to know what's going to happen.

Just sayin'. 😉

 

Quote

Do you think that is there, or am I just making stuff up?  Is that reflective only of RW Christian mysticism?  Do the other decks you work with contain that idea?

TBH it does come off like you're making it up.

As for other decks, the Thoth is thoroughly de-Christianed, but the core meaning is the same. I wouldn't reject RWS because of the Christian stuff, it just uses that to express some universal ideas. The TdM feels more cartomantic and I generally read the Ace of Cups as the home in that one.

Edited April 16, 2021 by katrinka

[katrinka]

I just want to add this to lighten the mood: this is one of my dogs looking like a skunk.

 

Actually, he's not a skunk, has never been near a skunk, and I keep him smelling pretty nice for a dog. 
Eyes do funny things sometimes. 😉