My problem with the Clouds

[Guest]

Clouds is a problematic card in Lenormand. That's obvious.

 

However, it brings about extra complications to me, sometimes.

 

In these occasions, this card appears in my readings as if showing the outcome is uncertain, that I won't get a clear answer or my view is blocked and any prediction cannot be seen clearly. It acts as if the cards were saying: stop inquiring for the time being. It mostly happens this way when I'm reading a line of five and it falls on the last position. 

 

Am I doing anything wrong?

[DownUnderNZer]

 

CLOUDS

 

Sometimes with Clouds you are meant to bide your time until those clouds clear up in their own good time.

 

In other words, more than likely, you are meant to be in the shadows at the time you ask so need to allow things to unfold, reveal themselves, have a breather and/or happen when the coast is all clear.

 

Not everything is certain or clear in life, but beyond the clouds is the sun and clear skies so it is there within your reach, but not just yet. So just bide your time until those clouds open up to clear blue skies.

 

Don't think you are doing anything wrong unless you are asking the same thing over and over perhaps.

 

Good luck!

 

DND 🌞

[HOLMES]

Hmm so you experiencing clouds as real energy clouding up thy chakras mind.

 

The first thing i ask as i am a big believer in grounding, and raising one vibration.. 

And trying to be impartial as possible in the reading. 

 

It could that you are quite inuitative so

In pranic healing. We are taught to sweep the energy out of our arms so we dont take on the energy we are cleaning away. So you may visualuze yourself with the sun coming to c lear the clouds away. 

 

The other thing you could is perhaps form a trick. To help you move past the clouds.. 

 

Llike take your 5 card spread line . And the cloud is say the second card.. 

Picture for now til your flow of  inspiration starts movjng  as not there  and focus on card 3 as card is in the past.. 

Or perhaps turn tbe cloud card over. So its energy is blocked.

[stephanelli]

3 hours ago, fabfranco said:

Clouds is a problematic card in Lenormand. That's obvious.

 

However, it brings about extra complications to me, sometimes.

 

In these occasions, this card appears in my readings as if showing the outcome is uncertain, that I won't get a clear answer or my view is blocked and any prediction cannot be seen clearly. It acts as if the cards were saying: stop inquiring for the time being. It mostly happens this way when I'm reading a line of five and it falls on the last position. 

 

Am I doing anything wrong?

I have been taught that with the clouds it is important which side the dark and light clouds fall.

The dark is problematic and challenging while the lighter side shows something improving.  This has proved accurate in my readings so far.

 

Some of my keywords for clouds is confusion and lack of clarity - so to me it is quite possible that the cards are saying that the outcome is unclear at this time - but it probably depends on what is beside it and where your dark/light clouds are.

 

I'm not sure if that's helpful, I'm still a beginner in Lenormand but I hope it might help a little.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, DownUnderNZer said:

 

CLOUDS

 

Sometimes with Clouds you are meant to bide your time until those clouds clear up in their own good time.

 

In other words, more than likely, you are meant to be in the shadows at the time you ask so need to allow things to unfold, reveal themselves, have a breather and/or happen when the coast is all clear.

 

Not everything is certain or clear in life, but beyond the clouds is the sun and clear skies so it is there within your reach, but not just yet. So just bide your time until those clouds open up to clear blue skies.

 

Don't think you are doing anything wrong unless you are asking the same thing over and over perhaps.

 

Good luck!

 

DND 🌞

You don't know how reassuring your message is. Since I've been here in the Forum, I've learnt a lot, but, at the same time, I've been shown how my misperceptions of the cards are what they are: misperceptions.

 

5 hours ago, HOLMES said:

Hmm so you experiencing clouds as real energy clouding up thy chakras mind.

 

The first thing i ask as i am a big believer in grounding, and raising one vibration.. 

And trying to be impartial as possible in the reading. 

 

It could that you are quite inuitative so

In pranic healing. We are taught to sweep the energy out of our arms so we dont take on the energy we are cleaning away. So you may visualuze yourself with the sun coming to c lear the clouds away. 

 

The other thing you could is perhaps form a trick. To help you move past the clouds.. 

 

Llike take your 5 card spread line . And the cloud is say the second card.. 

Picture for now til your flow of  inspiration starts movjng  as not there  and focus on card 3 as card is in the past.. 

Or perhaps turn tbe cloud card over. So its energy is blocked.

Thank you for your practices. I'll be trying those!

 

4 hours ago, stephanelli said:

I have been taught that with the clouds it is important which side the dark and light clouds fall.

The dark is problematic and challenging while the lighter side shows something improving.  This has proved accurate in my readings so far.

 

Some of my keywords for clouds is confusion and lack of clarity - so to me it is quite possible that the cards are saying that the outcome is unclear at this time - but it probably depends on what is beside it and where your dark/light clouds are.

 

I'm not sure if that's helpful, I'm still a beginner in Lenormand but I hope it might help a little.

You did help! Whenever somebody shares their ideas on my viewpoints, it's very helpful indeed. Thank you!

[katrinka]

8 hours ago, fabfranco said:

In these occasions, this card appears in my readings as if showing the outcome is uncertain, that I won't get a clear answer or my view is blocked and any prediction cannot be seen clearly. It acts as if the cards were saying: stop inquiring for the time being. It mostly happens this way when I'm reading a line of five and it falls on the last position. 

The issue with that is that clouds don't obscure things that are down here with us at ground level. We can see fine on a cloudy day. So the Clouds card isn't talking about anything being hidden, blocked, obscured, confused or uncertain. If there was a card called "Fog", it would be different. But all the Clouds card is saying is that something disagreeable may be on the way. Better to look at the cards unflinchingly. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by katrinka

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, katrinka said:

 Better to look at the cards unflinchingly. 

I'll start doing that. Thanks for the heads up!

[Guest]

9 hours ago, fabfranco said:

It mostly happens this way when I'm reading a line of five and it falls on the last position. 

For a storm to clear it must first break. If the Clouds ends a line the clouds are gathering, but the storm has yet to break.

 

In itself the Clouds has little meaning other than a storm or problem gathering pace. You have to see where/what it clouds to understand the problem to be faced. 

 

The reason the Clouds is the most negative card in the deck is it obscures light.

 

I was taught that there is one card that can mitigate the Clouds. That is the Sun card. If you look at some old patterns, there is dispersed clouds on the Sun

 

 However, it must be above the Clouds and the light side has to face the Significator.  Both have to be near, too, e.g:

 

**  - 31

29 - 06 (light left)

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, timtoldrum said:

In itself the Clouds has little meaning other than a storm or problem gathering pace. You have to see where/what it clouds to understand the problem to be faced. 

Andy, we've been on the same wavelength. I went back to the cards and asked: when does the clouds infer such meaning of not geting a clear answer or my view is blocked and any prediction cannot be seen clearly? 

 

The answer came straightforwardly: Letter + Book + Clouds. When it talks about some information undisclosed by the cards, which I interpreted (correct me if I'm mistaken) as when I'm not supposed to be privy of it. This answer, at least to my meager understanding, reassured me that it's all about the question proposed (context, context, context).

 

Talking about the clouds @timtoldrum: when you wrote that card next to the Clouds takes its "clouded meaning", does it mean this card gets its own negative meanings or that the Clouds tinge them with negativity (like unsettling laid out plans or instilling some mistrust into a relationship)? Could you please clarify what "clouding" means? (Pardon if I'm too dense to understand).

[Guest]

2 hours ago, fabfranco said:

Talking about the clouds @timtoldrum: when you wrote that card next to the Clouds takes its "clouded meaning", does it mean this card gets its own negative meanings or that the Clouds tinge them with negativity (like unsettling laid out plans or instilling some mistrust into a relationship)? Could you please clarify what "clouding" means? (Pardon if I'm too dense to understand).

Traditionally, yes. The Cloverleaf, the Stars, the High Tower and the Road cards are particularly affected by the Clouds.
 

If you think about the Stars (guidance, direction) and the Roads (decision, escape) it makes sense.
 

The High Tower can indicate a long term shadow over health.  The Cloverleaf no respite or break. 
 

Other cards just become problematic, like a storm ripping through them.
 

The big trouble we face is the card to beneath and adjacent to the Clouds. Severity is determined by whether the dark or light side faces the Significator. 

[Guest]

@timtoldrum Thank you loads for claryfing the issue. Very kind of you. 

[katrinka]

7 hours ago, timtoldrum said:

The reason the Clouds is the most negative card in the deck is it obscures light.

I tend to think of it more in terms of potential storm damage: hurricanes, flooding, hail, blizzards, etc. We can still see on a cloudy day, often better than on a clear day since glare is reduced.
But that could be a result of spending most of my life in places that are prone to things like that. Now that you mention it, I don't hear of Germany or France getting pummeled that way. 
There is food for thought here. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, katrinka said:

But that could be a result of spending most of my life in places that are prone to things like that

My brother was born on what we call here in Brazil "the waters of March", heavy rainfalls that happen usually between 19th to 29th March. When he was born, there was a flood so strong in the city where we lived that our house got water up to the ceiling. We had to move away to my grandmother's for some weeks. 

 

On the same topic, @katrinka: maybe that's why I feel the same bad 'vibes' about Mice. Where I was born, mice were an infestation and everyone was frightened of them. I grew up with my mom and aunts really scared of them. It took years to that infestation to end - but even before that time, there were a lot of folk tales about how awful mice were (there were even a collection of stories written in poem form about here, in Brazil). 

[katrinka]

Yes, we get floods like that around here - and flash floods that come to low water crossings out of nowhere and wash cars away. 
A couple of months ago we had a freakishly (for here) hard freeze and the power grid for the whole state broke down. (There were reasons for this, but I won't go into politics here.) People died in their homes. It's still 1840 here in some ways.

Mice and rats ARE something to fear, in a way. They'll ruin everything you own if you allow them to overrun. Best to go to war at the first sign of them, lol.

Edited April 22, 2021 by katrinka

[Guest]

1 minute ago, katrinka said:

Best to go to war at the first sign of them, lol.

Well said 😆

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, katrinka said:

I tend to think of it more in terms of potential storm damage: hurricanes, flooding, hail, blizzards, etc. We can still see on a cloudy day, often better than on a clear day since glare is reduced.
But that could be a result of spending most of my life in places that are prone to things like that. Now that you mention it, I don't hear of Germany or France getting pummeled that way. 
There is food for thought here. 

I agree: 100 %. When I get challenged on the card extreme weather and natural disasters are what I point to.  At the time the cards appeared, bad harvests, harsh winters, and so on was far more immediate.

 

In addition though the absence of light would have been understood.  Eclipses were negative omens.  Combustion is the most serious affliction a planet can suffer.  It becomes invisible in the rays of the sun, and so on... when he had opened the sixth seal, and behold there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, katrinka said:

They'll ruin everything you own if you allow them to overrun

Like politicians.

[katrinka]

2 hours ago, timtoldrum said:

Like politicians.

Yes. 
Especially ours. 

I found some flash flood footage for anyone who has never seen one. Not sure it's relevant here though - as mentioned, I never hear of these things happening on the Continent. Still, like you mentioned, bad weather could certainly ruin crops.
 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by katrinka

[katrinka]

9 minutes ago, timtoldrum said:

In addition though the absence of light would have been understood.  Eclipses were negative omens.  Combustion is the most serious affliction a planet can suffer.  It becomes invisible in the rays of the sun, and so on... when he had opened the sixth seal, and behold there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair.

Ah, OK - THAT kind of absence of light. Got it!

[Guest]

I think we Brazilians, mostly us who live next to the Equator, can't fathom how the darkness of the weather in northern hemisphere can be unsettling. I think that's one of the reasons why for most Lenormand Brazilian cartomancers (chiefly the ones who practice it connected to Candomble & Umbanda),  the Cloud is a negative card, but not regarded THAT malefic. We tend to look to other cards, such as the previously mentioned Mice or the dreaded Coffin. After all, the Sun (the star itself) is our daily companion, most of the days. We have what people would call "a solar temperament". 

 

Just adding my two cents. Ignore at will.

[DownUnderNZer]

2 hours ago, fabfranco said:

I think we Brazilians, mostly us who live next to the Equator, can't fathom how the darkness of the weather in northern hemisphere can be unsettling. I think that's one of the reasons why for most Lenormand Brazilian cartomancers (chiefly the ones who practice it connected to Candomble & Umbanda),  the Cloud is a negative card, but not regarded THAT malefic. We tend to look to other cards, such as the previously mentioned Mice or the dreaded Coffin. After all, the Sun (the star itself) is our daily companion, most of the days. We have what people would call "a solar temperament". 

 

Just adding my two cents. Ignore at will.

 

 

Brazil I believe follows a system that most definitely has a German flare to it in its meanings, but also a side to it that other systems don't have like your deep Spiritual cultural beliefs which can be quite fascinating. Love it!

 

Your Clover has an opposite meaning too from what I understand - bad luck.

 

Be careful not to confuse yourself with different systems. Mostly they are the same, but Baralho Cigano really is a system upon itself in some ways as it has its own original twist.

 

 

DND 🌞

[DownUnderNZer]

 

@fabfranco

 

The last card always has the last say no matter what really, but the context of what you are asking is important too and can change, to an extent, how the cards are read.

 

For example, if you were asking about a person then it could suggest someone being moody and/or that has an addiction of some kind no matter where it lies. Although if it comes before a main focus card - then it would likely be recent past to past.

 

If about a new job and at the end - then it would be uncertain and unknown - possibly even doubtful.

 

Some use the dark side of the Clouds as a total negative when it touches cards on that side, but if it is the lighter side then the storm has passed or is just passing and the situation is on the mend.

 

If about Health the Clouds would be the lungs and chest area.

 

So...what is being asked is important too.

 

 

DND 🌞

[Guest]

7 hours ago, DownUnderNZer said:

Your Clover has an opposite meaning too from what I understand - bad luck.

Indeed. But I don't see it that way. A four-leafed clover is a nice symbol of luck for me. Fleeting, I know, but nice nevertheless.

 

7 hours ago, DownUnderNZer said:

 

@fabfranco

 

The last card always has the last say no matter what really, but the context of what you are asking is important too and can change, to an extent, how the cards are read.

 

For example, if you were asking about a person then it could suggest someone being moody and/or that has an addiction of some kind no matter where it lies. Although if it comes before a main focus card - then it would likely be recent past to past.

 

If about a new job and at the end - then it would be uncertain and unknown - possibly even doubtful.

 

Some use the dark side of the Clouds as a total negative when it touches cards on that side, but if it is the lighter side then the storm has passed or is just passing and the situation is on the mend.

 

If about Health the Clouds would be the lungs and chest area.

 

So...what is being asked is important too.

 

 

DND 🌞

Thank you for the info. I'm including those to my list of things to remember when I get Clouds again. I've never stopped to think how dreadfully potent the card was before. I'm grateful for you all showing me that. 

 

Incidentally, as we are talking about symbols and emblems, I've recently watched a video who got me thnkinga about them and how, distance and different cultural backgrounds aside, they converge somehow to a kind of world congnizance. It's not Lenormand about, not even cartomantic, so watch it just if you feel interested: 

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, DownUnderNZer said:

Some use the dark side of the Clouds as a total negative when it touches cards on that side, but if it is the lighter side then the storm has passed or is just passing and the situation is on the mend.

What's your personal take on that, @DownUnderNZer?

[DownUnderNZer]

1 minute ago, fabfranco said:

What's your personal take on that, @DownUnderNZer?

 

@fabfranco

 

For me it all depends, but I have to say for myself it's more about what immediately flanks a main card or focus card and also the distancing - especially in a GT. I don't always look at dark or light sides, but that is my choice. 

 

I prefer to keep away from anything too oppressive or heavy.

 

I do take note of the direction a MAN and WOMAN face when it comes to one another and even what is between them. E.g. Mountain.

 

In addition, dark and light sides don't always exist in  Lenormand decks nor sometimes do they have the people cards facing opposite directions so it isn't always a technique that can be applied whether it comes to dark/light and/or directional.

 

 

DND 🌞