My problem with the Clouds

[Guest]

@DownUnderNZer Thank you for your kind reply. I like taking into account different perspectives from people more used to Lenormand than me. 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, katrinka said:

Ah, OK - THAT kind of absence of light. Got it!

Yeah. I was not explaining it well.  Essentially, it comes back to the binaries that run through divination and fortune-telling. But light and the absence of light was common to the collective folklore of early modern Europe.

 

16 hours ago, fabfranco said:

I think we Brazilians, mostly us who live next to the Equator, can't fathom how the darkness of the weather in northern hemisphere can be unsettling. I think that's one of the reasons why for most Lenormand Brazilian cartomancers (chiefly the ones who practice it connected to Candomble & Umbanda),  the Cloud is a negative card, but not regarded THAT malefic. We tend to look to other cards, such as the previously mentioned Mice or the dreaded Coffin. After all, the Sun (the star itself) is our daily companion, most of the days. We have what people would call "a solar temperament". 

 

Just adding my two cents. Ignore at will.

It can be hard for modern Europeans, too. But bad weather could ruin harvests leading to starvation and so on.  The winters could be particularly harsh — remember there was no heating, homes were overcrowded and often unsanitary.  
 

Both in the late XVII century, and after the Sweden-Russia conflict, there were devastating plagues in the Holy Roman Empire and Prussia, respectively.  The belief in plague vapours and miasmas was still held.

 

Hechtel himself died in an epidemic of smallpox. 
 

And there is no need to ignore; debate, difference of opinion and perspectives is important. So is challenging them. Especially sweeping statements like x = this school, and so on. 

 

On an aside, the folklore of the cards is that the king of clubs’ regard is the dark clouds. There were petit jeu were it was not clear. Other times the designs show rocks or disturbed waters (the Brepols). If the cartomante looks there is seldom not some way to identify it. 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Guest
Typo

[Albadawn]

I’ve been following along this thread and others in the Lenormand section and it’s really inspired me to give it another try! It’s been several years since I was first trying to learn it so I’m close to being a blank slate. Thank you all for the interesting discussion!! I’ll go back to lurking now since I don’t have much useful to contribute at this time 😉

[Guest]

4 hours ago, timtoldrum said:

Yeah. I was not explaining it well.  Essentially, it comes back to the binaries that run through divination and fortune-telling. But light and the absence of light was common to the collective folklore of early modern Europe.

 

It can be hard for modern Europeans, too. But bad weather could ruin harvests leading to starvation and so on.  The winters could be particularly harsh — remember there was no heating, homes were overcrowded and often unsanitary.  
 

Both in the late XVII century, and after the Sweden-Russia conflict, there were devastating plagues in the Holy Roman Empire and Prussia, respectively.  The belief in plague vapours and miasmas was still held.

 

Hechtel himself died in an epidemic of smallpox. 
 

And there is no need to ignore; debate, difference of opinion and perspectives is important. So is challenging them. Especially sweeping statements like x = this school, and so on. 

 

On an aside, the folklore of the cards is that the king of clubs’ regard is the dark clouds. There were petit jeu were it was not clear. Other times the designs show rocks or disturbed waters (the Brepols). If the cartomante looks there is seldom not some way to identify it. 

That's, above all, what attracts me to the emblems of Lenormand. They're composing parts of a language, a folklore based one, that's accessible to all. 

[DownUnderNZer]

12 hours ago, fabfranco said:

@DownUnderNZer Thank you for your kind reply. I like taking into account different perspectives from people more used to Lenormand than me. 

 

The Lenormand is my old time friend and faithful companion and goes back further than some of the younger ones born in my family to date.

 

You can't go wrong learning one system properly and at some point acknowledging others plus the slight differences that may exist between cards.

 

However, what some may need to do earlier on is choose if they want to learn it the heavy and oppressive way or light and easy going with a touch of the negative.

 

DND 🌞

[Guest]

16 hours ago, fabfranco said:

That's, above all, what attracts me to the emblems of Lenormand. They're composing parts of a language, a folklore based one, that's accessible to all. 

It is. Contrary to some assertions I recognise differences but not German school, French school, and so on. There are differences but it has little to do with work cards and perceived genders. 
 

When one has the core essence or topic of a card one can start to see differences in lilt or accent.
 

There is then influence from common stories or fables common to regions — the Grimm stories, Aesop, fables of Renard, and so on.

 

Different stories were more popular in regions, such as Renard in France, Belgium and the Netherlands.  Schneeweißchen und Rosenrot was a well known story in the German states, Austria, Hungary and so on. The Bear is often seen as a man and love interest in those regions. 

 

Then odd quirks exist too like the Serpent for the mother to some Germans who see the snake as an umbilical cord. But not all Germans see it or use it.