Reading the lord and lady cards

[Anabiyeni]

I am still very new to Lenormand and am probably overlooking something. I have no idea what to do with these cards when they show up in a spread. I have read that they are supposed to signify the querent or someone in the querent's life, but I am having trouble getting past the binary genderedness. All of the other cards have keywords I can work with like strength and message, but if these two have useful keywords, I have not figured them out, so when these cards are in combinations, I can't read them. 

 

For example, I pulled the cards fish-key-man, which looks like a man is the key to my prosperity, and that's just insulting, so I really hope I'm misunderstanding. (I'm not asking for an interpretation of this draw, just general tips on how to read the lord and lady, especially if the querent doesn't identify with either card.)

 

Sorry if this post is confusing. These two cards just don't make any sense to me.

[Albadawn]

Hi @Anabiyeni! I'm fairly new to the Lenormand, the first time around I hit this stumbling-block as well.

 

Some recently published decks give additional 'people' cards to allow customization. I like the Green Glyphs Lenormand, which comes with two Ladies, two Gentlemen, and the Person card as standard - the $5 upgrade gives you two Person cards along with a few other nice extras.

 

One of the "people" cards should represent the Querent (the person asking), and the other is their 'Significant Other' (or potential significant others). If reading for someone else, I would ask who they wanted this card to refer to if they were not romantically involved (so for example, their best friend). Or it could refer to an unknown person, so a potential significant other, if they were looking for a partner. It really depends on who you're reading for!

 

Traditionally, I believe there are other cards in the deck which would be assigned to "stand in". So for example, if the person being read for was a gay male, then his 'Significant Other' card could be chosen from the remaining cards (such as the Rider, which portrays another man). If you have a deck which has the playing card insets, you can also use those. Here's a good video all about the people in the Lenormand: donnaleigh court cards - YouTube

 

Lenormand is very literal, so it's important to be clear in your mind about "who's who" before you start shuffling, I think. As I said, I am pretty new to this method of reading myself, but this is what I've been able to gather so far! 🙂 

[stephanelli]

Hi @Anabiyeni!

 

I'm also new to Lenormand but I totally understand where you're coming from!

 

I would ask my sitter what cards they feel represents them and whatever significant other they choose - and allow them to choose from the other cards too.

 

This is probably a little controversial, but if they feel like none of the cards are suitable, my suggestion is to perhaps add a couple of non-binary person cards to a deck if you need to.  The simplest way I can think of doing this is simply a piece of card the same size as the deck with an appropriate gender/non-binary symbol on it.  You could get more artsy or perhaps borrow from another deck.  It'll make shuffling more interesting, but I tend to zone out and not notice differences in card backs/size so it wouldn't bother me in that respect.

 

Anyway, interesting question, I'm looking forward to seeing what anyone else has to say on the subject!

[Anabiyeni]

56 minutes ago, Albadawn said:

the Green Glyphs Lenormand

This is the first Lenormand deck I got and I like that it has a person card or two, but I'd like to be able to read with other decks as well.

 

58 minutes ago, Albadawn said:

for example, their best friend

I know several asexuals and others who do not date (or want to date) for whatever reason, so I will definitely keep this in mind. In one reading I tried, I thought the other person (man-bear) might be my (female) dissertation chair.

 

40 minutes ago, stephanelli said:

The simplest way I can think of doing this is simply a piece of card the same size as the deck with an appropriate gender/non-binary symbol on it.

I may have to try that.

[DownUnderNZer]

@Anabiyeni

 

It most definitely can be quite literal as in a Man or Woman, but if you want to open it up more so that it is another layer to the cards - then think of them as masculine and feminine qualities or attributes.

 

So, instead of feeling insulted that a man could be the key to your prosperity - think of it in a way like you need to be more: Analytical, logical, a problem solver etc.

 

However you view masculine.

 

I'm not saying Women aren't that way inclined - far from it! But it does make it easier using them in that context. Masculine and Feminine.

 

As for feminine qualities: Nurturing, caring, a good listener, gentle etc.

 

Whatever feminine means to you!

 

So, the key to your prosperity won't be due to a Man, but by you taking on masculine attributes.

 

Hope that helps a bit.

 

DND 🌞

[Anabiyeni]

Thanks, @DownUnderNZer. Now I just have to think about which qualities I would consider masculine and which feminine. I'm fairly certain my masculine list will be less flattering than yours, since I consider "problem solver" feminine and analytical/logical either one (or myself since that's how pretty much everyone I know describes me).

[Sadewa]

Personally I don't use the Lord/Lady to represent anything another than actual persons. I also tend not to add additional cards to my readings due to my reliance on certain techniques. 

 

When I use the Lord/Lady as a main significator of the querent, I choose one according to their social gender rather than their biological sex. The assigned card will then mean my querent and my querent only. The other card will become a male/female that is somehow important within the issue inquired. It is not necessarily your partner/certain friend or associate if they do not see themselves as a male/female. It could be other people that are important in the issue. 

 

I think I'll use the Child as the main significator should my querent be a non-binary person. I see the Child as gender-neutral. Using this card doen't mean that I or the cards see the querent as immature or whatever. It's just a matter of practicability. However, if you follow certain writers, you may tend to see this card as "a young girl". So this method does not always apply.

 

For other people in the querents life that do not think of themselves as male/female. I believe that lenormand don't really focus that much on sex and gender when describing "other people" in your life. Dog means a friend, Bear means a boss, Mountain means an enemy, Fox means a rival...... I think these cards focus more on their "roles" in your life and don't necessarily show restrictions on sex and gender.  There are methods to determine a certain male/female using cards other than Lord/Lady, but they generally require an understanding on the pips, which isn't really that obligatory.  (Very helpful, though.)

I think the trick is to know your cards well and, in this case, know your cards that can represent people well. Using a main significator is one of the merits of systems like lenormand. The trick is to find the best card that "fits". For example, if I'm reading for a non-binary friend, they'll be the Child. Should they find a non-binary partner, they can be the Dog (which doesn't mean "a man" here although I do use "the man" meaning in other readings). Should they choose celibacy, then there maybe is no need to find a card for "a romantic partner", the Heart and the Ring may just mean general passion and commitment and ties in other aspects of their life.  As for the Lord/Lady in such readings, they are no longer the main significator that signify the querent, but they still mean people who are important and see themselves as a male or a female repectively.

Other people here have also provided valid suggestions. I'm just here to provide something different. 🙂 It's more about your own preferences and your experience in reading cards, for the cards are known to speak slightly different "accents" to different readers. We are all but trying to build personal conversations with our cards.

Happy reading!

[DownUnderNZer]

On 5/11/2021 at 9:17 AM, Anabiyeni said:

Thanks, @DownUnderNZer. Now I just have to think about which qualities I would consider masculine and which feminine. I'm fairly certain my masculine list will be less flattering than yours, since I consider "problem solver" feminine and analytical/logical either one (or myself since that's how pretty much everyone I know describes me).

 

@Anabiyeni

 

I do get you because in WW1 and WW2 my greats, maybe even great greats, had to take over the farms in NZ when our men were away fighting. So, our women had to do all the work on the farms. We lost at least one generation of males. So, most of the women in my family are staunch, strong, hard and the decision makers plus are more than capable of lifting an engine out of a car or pulling apart a tractor. 

 

Well, maybe not so much the heavy lifting anymore as some went on to becoming lawyers and University lecturers or to work in Parliament or for the government. Not just limited to farming.

 

In general, however, masculine traits are seen in a certain way as well as feminine, but if that is a hard bullet to swallow then just leave them as Man and Woman because that is really only what else they are no matter what - people cards.

 

 

DND 🌞

 

Note: I do realise it should be hard pill to swallow and I know there is a swallow the bullet, but who really likes pills? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe I spoke too soon...

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by DownUnderNZer
Adding Note.

[Anabiyeni]

17 hours ago, DownUnderNZer said:

So, most of the women in my family are staunch, strong, hard and the decision makers plus are more than capable of lifting an engine out of a car or pulling apart a tractor. 

I can relate to that. 

 

If I just read the cards as random man and random woman, then how do I read when they modify/influence a card? For example, rider-man or sun-woman. woman-rider I might think of a journalist or news junkie, but rider-woman I have no clue.

[Anabiyeni]

23 hours ago, Sadewa said:

Child as the main significator should my querent be a non-binary person

I could see this. I might try it.

[DownUnderNZer]

7 hours ago, Anabiyeni said:

I can relate to that. 

 

If I just read the cards as random man and random woman, then how do I read when they modify/influence a card? For example, rider-man or sun-woman. woman-rider I might think of a journalist or news junkie, but rider-woman I have no clue.

 

@Anabiyeni

 

Not to add any confusion or to confuse you in anyway, but sometimes cards don't modify the flanking card. That's just me, but don't think it's limited to just me.

 

Most times they do, but not always.

 

Take, for example, Snake+Heart or Heart+Snake in a question about someone's partner.

 

Both ways mean something is untrustworthy in a love or romantic situation. 

 

a) Deceit, manipulation and treachery (07) when it comes to the affairs of the heart (24) or

 

b) A love (24) situation in which there is deceit, treachery and manipulation (07) involved.

 

Now with Rider that can be looked at as someone new, a new situation, but also a male.

 

And it can also be about a message, news or even an update on some information you are waiting on.

 

Sporty, athletic and all that.

 

Because you are doing it randomly or in a general sense then open it up to all possible meanings - don't limit it to seeing it in one way.

 

Rider+Woman could be:

 

1) A new male partner in a woman's life.

 

2) An informed and well advised female.

 

3) Information and/or feedback that is coming soon from a female.

 

4) An athletic sporty woman.

 

Work with it and stretch those muscles.

 

Offhand, a journalist or a writer for me would maybe be Letter+Man even Man+Letter, but backed up maybe with the Book or something.

 

Rider+Man to me would possibly be two men, an athletic male, well informed man even a well proportioned male. News or message on the way. A new person that is male entering one's Iife soon.

 

Am sure you will work it all out.

 

Best of luck!

 

 

DND 🌞

 

[Guest]

On 5/10/2021 at 1:08 PM, Anabiyeni said:

For example, I pulled the cards fish-key-man, which looks like a man is the key to my prosperity, and that's just insulting, so I really hope I'm misunderstanding. (I'm not asking for an interpretation of this draw, just general tips on how to read the lord and lady, especially if the querent doesn't identify with either card.)

Generally speaking, the Lord and the Lady signify people.  One is always assigned to the Querent (by their gender identity, rather than biological sex).  
 

The remaining one will represent “someone else” in the Querent’s situation.   Depending on context that can be: partner, a parent, hiring boss ... it comes down to context. 

 

In a daily draws or short trios, the card that isn’t the Querent can simply be taken as “someone else” of either gender. 

 

The Child card is the other Significator. Traditionally, it is used for a Querent under 21 years-of-age of either gender.  I use this card for non-binary as in my decks (Carta Mundi, WanderWust and Piatnik) the child is female (or an unbreeched boy), and the Knave male. 
 

Your three cards did not describe a man being key to your financial prosperity. It could be a joint enterprise, paying for lunch, opening of a deep connection. 

 

The important factor is order. Cards are modified by their attendee.
 

So using DownUnderNZ’s examples:

 

Serpent - Heart is betrayal in love/adultery, a lover (can be male or female) or toxic feelings and jealousy. 
 

Heart - Serpent is love affair with a number of complications (can be forbidden), loving someone else (but not acting on it) or feelings that come about in a roundabout way.

 

The Fox card corresponds more towards deceit and manipulation.

 

The Serpent card is more betrayal, sedition, spitefulness as well as detours and delays. If she is the topic card (comes first) we see her venom directed to the next card (modifier or description). That card becomes problematic and you need to be careful of what it signifies.
 

When she comes after the interpretation becomes more neutral.

 

Neither are great. But the first is extremely undesirably. 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Guest