Reading with Playing Cards : Some queries

[jaygon]

Hello all,

 

This is my very first post on the forums! I wasn't quite sure which sub-forum would best frame my query so, as it generally relates to Cartomancy + Divination, I thought it best to post here. If the post has indeed been misplaced, a helpful moderator may move it on by behalf.

 

I know a little about reading both Tarot and Oracle cards and find that, in addition to the symbolic meanings in the Tarot deck and the guidebook which accompany the many Oracle decks (which I actually rarely consult), there is an added layer of 'intuition' involved. I believe this to be particularly true with regards to Oracle cards. I have always interpreted this layer of intuition as the primal source of divination in a reading. I am neither accomplished nor adept at reading the Tarot or Oracle Cards. I am very much still learning. But, as I say, I do understand a little about both systems. 

 

Recently, I have become very attracted to learning to read both the Lenormand system (Petit Jeu) and the ordinary Playing Card deck. My mother was quite adept at reading with the Playing Cards, a system she learned as a child from her aunt. Although I am not as familiar with the system of conducting a reading with Playing Cards, I understand both the Playing Cards and the Lenormand system to be far more specific in dealing with 'day to day' questions and scenarios.

 

My two queries are as follows :

 

1. How universal are the rules regarding the reading of Playing Cards for fortune telling? I'm hoping to purchase a recommended book. My mother certainly did not learn from a book and I'm wondering if perhaps there are many variations as to how the Playing Cards can be read, depending on different readers/countries/authors etc. etc. All suggestions would be welcome. The Lenormand FAQ was quite useful in listing some recommended books for Le Petit Jeu.

 

2. I hoped to gauge opinions on the Playing Card readings and Lenormand readings as tools of divination. As mentioned, with Tarot and Oracle decks there is an element of both interpretation and intuition. From my limited understanding of Playing Cards and Lenormand Cards, it would appear that interpretation and intuition are absent. Both systems appear to be specific with fixed meanings attributed to the cards. A person, for example, could learn both respective systems and read the cards accordingly, unlike Tarot, where the images may arouse emotions and intuitions. In the absence of intuition and interpretation, I'm unsure where the element of divination presents in the Lenormand and the Playing Cards.

 

It is entirely likely that I am mistaken in part of what I have written above and would be really interested in your thoughts.

 

Best in advance,

 

Jay

 

 

[legendaryelement]

Hello, jaygon! I collect books & methods of divination. There is no "universal" set of rules or correspondences for Playing Cards. I tend to look for a "system" that lays out areas for consideration based on suit, then number, and then how the interaction between them might alter a card's meaning.

 

~ Cartomancy

> 52 cards

Card Reader’s Handbook - Russell, 1976

Fortune-telling with Playing Cards - J. Dee, 2004 (green cover)

Fortune-telling by Playing Cards A New Guide to the Ancient Art of Cartomancy - N. Dee, Ninth impression: 1985 (red cover)

Fortune Telling by Cards - Foli *undated, Ottenheimer (Baltimore)

The Cartomancy Workbook - Peach

Cardology: The True Meaning of the Cards - Wyatt

* not the Olney Richmond material system

Astrology and the Cards - E.H. Bailey

The Playing Card Oracles A Source Book for Divination - Cortez *geomancy figure correlation

It’s in the Cards - Jones, 1989 reprint *alternate day card calendar

Playing Card Divination Every Card Tells A Story - Ball

 

> 40 cards (removed 8/9/10)

Fate, Fortune & Mysticism in the Peruvian Amazon The Septrionic Order and the Naipes Cards - Dobkin De Rios

 

** The Card Geek’s Guide to Kipper Cards - Puhle

 

> Lenormand (36) cards

Note: the playing card notations are 6s through Aces - (removed 2/3/4/5)

Lenormand Thirty-Six Cards An Introduction to the Petit Lenormand - Boroveshengra

The Essential Lenormand - George

The Complete Lenormand Oracle Handbook - Matthews

 

Note: there is a version of 32 cards - (removed 2/3/4/5/6)

 

• Stephen Shapiro’s Personality Poker assigns flawed traits to pips 2-4

 

> French language titles - 54 cards

Le livre du Grand Jeu de Mlle Lenormand - Didier (pink cover)

Comprendre et Interpreter Le Grand Jeu de Mlle Lenormand - Morel (blue cover)

 

** Sabian Symbols in Card Reading - Fowler (deck of 52 playing cards)

 

~ websites

 

http://www.alcyone.com/arcana/oracle.html

 

https://artofcartomancy.blogspot.com/2019/09/basic-cartomancy-skills-number-meanings.html

 

https://goldenmousedeer.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/cartomancy-playing-card-meanings/

 

https://newworldwitchery.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/the-new-world-witchery-guide-to-cartomancy.pdf

 

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=4715978&postcount=10

Edited June 28, 2021 by legendaryelement
list of my books

[jaygon]

Thank you so much for the suggested bibliography This is exactly what I was hoping to source. It is reassuring that you are a collector of published material on the topic as I was concerned that there may be some books on the subject which are inaccurate or just ‘not good’. 
 

Would you perhaps have an insight into the second half of my query concerning the nature of divination with both the Lenormand and Playing Card Deck? I suspect it is as you have alluded to above, in the interpretation of the combination and interaction of the cards? 

[legendaryelement]

There are certainly books & websites that are “not good” or less helpful, etc. It is advantageous to consider the culture surrounding the date published (& even the publisher) of a work. My favorite author of a different system, Iain McLaren-Owens, does a reprint series of older works with comments & critiques. (PDF)

 

I think your second half would be best answered by people who read often for others (which I do not). My approach is more to check in with myself and see what my responses to a spread/draw say about my head space in a situation.

[JudyReadsCards]

On 6/25/2021 at 10:23 PM, jaygon said:

Hello all,

 

1. How universal are the rules regarding the reading of Playing Cards for fortune telling? I'm hoping to purchase a recommended book. My mother certainly did not learn from a book and I'm wondering if perhaps there are many variations as to how the Playing Cards can be read, depending on different readers/countries/authors etc. etc. All suggestions would be welcome. The Lenormand FAQ was quite useful in listing some recommended books for Le Petit Jeu.

 

Hello! Always a joy to "meet" someone who is interested in playing card cartomancy. 

 

"I'm wondering if perhaps there are many variations as to how the Playing Cards can be read, depending on different readers/countries/authors etc." This(!), I'm afraid. 😏  Which makes sharing our practice with others a bit of a challenge. I work with a 32-card deck and a set of German meanings, or more precisely, my grandmother's set of meanings, as I have no idea from where she acquired them.

 

That said, I do have recommendations for 52 cards. Firstly, I want to second @legendaryelement's mention of Art of Cartomancy. J David Arcuri (aka "Kapherus" and "Cardseer") is an excellent teacher. For books, I personally like "54 Devils - The Art and Folklore of Fortune-Telling with Playing Cards" by Cory Thomas Hutcheson, and "Cartomancy - What You Need to Know" by Raven Coyne. Both are different in their approach (not to mention their meanings) but they demonstrate the "how" of reading quite well.

 

For Lenormand there is only one book, as far as I'm concerned 😉 - "Lenormand Thirty Six Cards" by Andy Boroveshengra. 

 

Quote

2. I hoped to gauge opinions on the Playing Card readings and Lenormand readings as tools of divination. As mentioned, with Tarot and Oracle decks there is an element of both interpretation and intuition. From my limited understanding of Playing Cards and Lenormand Cards, it would appear that interpretation and intuition are absent. Both systems appear to be specific with fixed meanings attributed to the cards. A person, for example, could learn both respective systems and read the cards accordingly, unlike Tarot, where the images may arouse emotions and intuitions. In the absence of intuition and interpretation, I'm unsure where the element of divination presents in the Lenormand and the Playing Cards.

 

Speaking for myself and from my experience, tarot, playing cards and Lenormand all have "meanings" or essences generally associated with their cards, and they all benefit from the reader's intuition as to what aspect of those essences applies to the reading at hand. I do take on board that I'm freer to riff off a particular colour or minute detail in the image on a tarot card than I am with Lenormand, where the picture itself is essentially an icon (... is that what I mean? This stuff is hard 🤔). But how on earth could I read a line of playing cards without intuition alerting me to which card/s is the key, which cards are explanatory, which subtle nuance of meaning is intended, which cards combine to create a new meaning, who's acting/who's being acted upon... ? There's definitely more to the process than See Dick Run. 😊

 

"I'm unsure where the element of divination presents in the Lenormand and the Playing Cards." - And I'm unsure what that's asking 🙂, but perhaps what I've already written has addressed it to some extent.

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by JudyReadsCards

[jaygon]

Hello!

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond in detail. 
 

I have looked up ‘The Art of Cartomancy’ blog as recommended above and it is indeed a wealth of information. I have, in fact, also managed to source an earlier (now archived) version of that blog (via the Internet Archive) which has even more information on the Playing Card Deck. 
 

During my online search, I came upon a system called the ‘Hedgewythchery system’ of card reading and I wondered if this is a system common among those who practice reading the deck?
 

Similarly I wondered if there are other ‘named’ systems to reading the playing card deck? It all sounds rather organised and it would be interesting to ascertain if there are numerous ‘named systems’ in addition to the one above.

 

In regards to my second query which pertains to ‘intuition’ ; I fear I am posing the question rather clumsily.  

 

It’s my understanding that the Tarot and the Oracle Decks present a story which is ‘interpreted’ by the reader. Some parts of that story emerge from concrete pre-learned symbols, meanings and understandings as outlined in the rules of Tarot and/or the guidebook which accompanies that particular Oracle Deck. Other parts of the ‘story’, however, are ‘interpreted’. These interpretations can emerge in the mind of the reader resulting from emotions and intuitions which have been conjured by the actual imagery in the cards. 
 

With Lenormand and Playing Cards, it seems as though the reader is literally ‘reading’ rather than interpreting the story. The cards seem to communicate specific words and sentences concerning short term current day-to-day events rather than broader spiritual pathways and do so in a language a prescribed definitive language which the reader has previously learned.
 

In the absence of an emerging emotion and/or intuition which may result from a visual interpretation of the card, the reading seems to be less ‘supernatural’ an act than with Tarot or Oracle decks.
 

Your response has somewhat addressed this confusion when you explain that intuition does indeed come into play, in discerning ;

 

‘which card/s is the key, which cards are explanatory, which subtle nuance of meaning is intended, which cards combine to create a new meaning, who's acting/who's being acted upon’. 

 

Being a novice, I just presumed that making those above decisions, whilst reading the Lenormand/Playing Cards, was not attributed to intuition or interpretation at all but rather attributed to the order (pre-learned system) in which the card is placed in a pair or spread. 
 

 

 

 

 

[legendaryelement]

This was the first site I found & read about the history of playing cards:

https://members.tripod.com/a_pollett/cards.htm

Gallery Main page

http://a_pollett.tripod.com/cardpgal.htm

 

World of Playing Cards

https://www.wopc.co.uk/tarot-fortune

 

Over on AT

http://www.tarotforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=174

Glass Owl's Index posts

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=209051

[Yaroslav]

 

On 6/25/2021 at 11:23 PM, jaygon said:

My mother certainly did not learn from a book

My grandmother also used playing cards for divination (she read tea-leaves, too) and I'm also certain that she didn't learn from a book. She grew up in the North of England and was almost certainly taught to read cards and tea-leaves by someone there. She died many years ago, while I was still a child, and so unfortunately I never asked her about the system she used or where she learnt. It would make sense that there are some universal principles, especially in the assignation of the court cards to certain physical types (I remember that Spades and Clubs indicated people with dark hair/complexion, and Diamonds and Hearts fairer people). For the pip cards, I imagine the reading depended greatly on the intuition and imagination of the reader.

[gushak]

though i haven't tried reading with playing cards, i have watched a gypsy girl from school do a reading using my deck. she was pretty spot on with everything she said. she explained that though the cards don't have names like those in tarot decks, she had 'created' her own names for each card - so the ace of spades represented a card that may be seen in tarot decks. i'm not sure if that's how others use playing cards.