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Lenormand variants - post 'em here, let's talk


katrinka

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This is a thread for decks that have cards in common with Lenormand, but aren't Lenormand decks.

One of my favorites is the 1855 Zauberkarten from Vienna:

 

zauberkarten.jpg.391e4f50b49ba8535bf8c758c4de3f19.jpg

 

I just found my deck a little while ago when I was organizing some stuff. It's a fun deck. I've moved it to the table with the decks I'm currently using.

You get some images in common with Lenormand, like the Dog, Key, Clouds, Ring, Snake, Child, Lilies, and some others.
But you also get images like these:

 

zauberkarten.jpg.3e19320e008e881bb3ec825b64fc591a.jpg
 

Shackles, a Trap, Man Holding Up a Clenched Fist, Old Coffee Sister
Man Moving a Big Rock Uphill, Woman With a Baby Passing A Note To a Man, Beggar, Knight


It's very easy to understand what these cards are talking about!


And what would appear to be the Rider is actually the Overridden Horse: the horse is falling down, it's a card of exhaustion and futility.

All in all, this is one of my favorite Lenormand variants.



 

 

Edited by katrinka
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It looks really great, I shouldn’t have opened this thread… and the card stock seems linen, Oh My! Fortunately I’m strong enough to resist!!

tenor.gif

 

Regarding this thread/topic the old American Gypsy Bohemian Fortune Telling cards have cards in common with Lenormand but aren’t. We saw that recently in another thread.

https://marykgreer.com/tag/old-gypsy-fortune-telling-cards/

Edited by Decan
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Even with all the stuff like the comet, shackles, etc. the Zauberkarten are balanced. Here's a pull I did recently, very nice:

1112862297_20210726_215616_Film12.jpg.bf9ec68e06d928800df252c6031e331c.jpg

 

I've gotten a few other variants from Lauren over the years. Making not-Lenormands was apparently a trend in the first half of the 20th century!

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18 hours ago, Decan said:

It looks really great, I shouldn’t have opened this thread… and the card stock seems linen, Oh My! Fortunately I’m strong enough to resist!!

tenor.gif

 

They are linen, and available at neither Lauren's nor her daughter's site anymore.
If anyone just needs a copy, Caitlin Matthews might have a few left, along with the companion book. I'd suggest asking before ordering, since this link is from 2015 or so:
http://www.hallowquest.org.uk/product.php?id=139&pageid=5167

 

18 hours ago, Decan said:

Regarding this thread/topic the old American Gypsy Bohemian Fortune Telling cards have cards in common with Lenormand but aren’t. We saw that recently in another thread.

https://marykgreer.com/tag/old-gypsy-fortune-telling-cards/

 

Mary wrote about it so I don't have to, lol.
I have those. The Valmor tin is to die for! But drat, it's not where I thought I put it. I really need to organize things again.

 

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"Fortunately" with the new rules at customs in Europe I'm a bit restrained! 😁

If I was an American I would probably pass more time with the Valmor and the like! And I'm sure they read very well!!

 

I note with interest the connection (cards in common) between these decks and Lenormand, i.e. Germany. Regarding culture I have the impression that the US are closer to Germany than to the other countries in Europe (of course there is the UK, but?). It's an interesting topic I often think about.

Here regarding our culture the country we are closer (IMO) is Italy, and with our Tarot de Marseille we can clearly see a connection with Italy.

Edited by Decan
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That's an astute observation. We have a fair amount of places that were settled by Germans.
Irish, too. I've read that we have more Irish people here than Ireland does.

 

But your Hermit looks very american - that lamp looks like a beer can that he's dangling by the pull tab. 😁

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12 hours ago, katrinka said:

But your Hermit looks very american - that lamp looks like a beer can that he's dangling by the pull tab. 😁

Oh, it gives this impression? 😁

No, no, it's mineral water, pure spring water from mountains!

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4 hours ago, Decan said:

Oh, it gives this impression? 😁

No, no, it's mineral water, pure spring water from mountains!

 

In a CAN? 

Horrors! Can't he put a shot of whiskey in it or something?

Edited by katrinka
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WizardintheWoods

Personally I love my Zauberkarten, in fact when Lauren sold them I bought two to have one as a back up. The instruction book is good but I find I wanted more info on each card. I don’t want to go all intuitive in the meanings, such as the coffee drinker, but don’t know of any resources to investigate the cards more. Anyone with experience with these cards I would greatly love to hear from. 
 

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The Zauberkarten was a deck I vacillated over and decided not to purchase. Never been sure it was the correct decision.

 

I have but two Lenormand variants. The first is the Whitman Fortune Telling cards.

7098D7C1-9D0F-4D32-9FE5-A15DFC9BF08C.thumb.jpeg.fbdd71e02d6ab032852c0a8ee74cb656.jpeg


The first set I had was was a gift. There was no box or “LWB.” It’s was well loved and is now beyond use.  Later I acquired a second pack which has slight differences in artwork but it had the box and instructions sheet. 

 

Some of these designs influenced the Maybe Lenormand.
 

8DB45516-8617-404F-B5B5-E08342C7BF73.thumb.jpeg.86e84ab8451f78f86eecbe464fc7a3ef.jpeg

 

The other set is The French Fortune Telling cards. It is American and from 1971 but based on designs of Alain le Foll for Elle magazine in the 60s. 
 

E6F12CE5-C829-4B77-ABBC-8D9E2AB2BBFB.thumb.jpeg.ef7d2734e25d06096dbf42f458a7e5f1.jpeg


I found it interesting that cards 1 - 4 are the same as the Whitman. It has a Queer essence and I love it.

 

D08E1582-CF18-4EF6-B4F6-850668EFBBF0.thumb.jpeg.09fd30faa9e4465e88ba543e4186f035.jpeg

 

The instructions use both proximity and reversals. I never use the latter.

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16 minutes ago, mxlavender said:

The other set is The French Fortune Telling cards. It is American and from 1971 but based on designs of Alain le Foll for Elle magazine in the 60s. 

 

Those Alain le Foll cards are so beautiful and with such an air of lightness about them. They also demonstrate that one could theoretically mix a pack of Lenormand and Tarot and read them together seamlessly and successfully. Not that you'd necessarily want to, of course.

Edited by devin
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18 minutes ago, devin said:

 

Those Alain le Foll cards are so beautiful and with such an air of lightness about them. They also demonstrate that one could theoretically mix a pack of Lenormand and Tarot and read them together seamlessly and successfully. Not that you'd necessarily want to, of course.


The cards are beautiful and printed on quite thick card stock. 
 

Alain le Foll’s designs appeared in Elle magazine 1964. Apparently, he did several such features. If I remember correctly either Dr. Elias or Frank Jensen had an original. 
 

Over time I have said that the Tarot and Petit Lenormand are closer together than the latter is to the Bohemian decks, &c. Both Tarot and the Petit Lenormand use emblem or allegorical images (Sun, Moon, Park, World, &c) rather than scenic or situational pictures (a gift, sick person, a conversation, &c). Consequently, both can be read much the same — I read tarot just as I do the PL. 

 

The Petit Lenormand is also a set of pips like the so-called lesser arcana. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, mxlavender said:

The Zauberkarten was a deck I vacillated over and decided not to purchase. Never been sure it was the correct decision.

 

I have but two Lenormand variants. The first is the Whitman Fortune Telling cards.

7098D7C1-9D0F-4D32-9FE5-A15DFC9BF08C.thumb.jpeg.fbdd71e02d6ab032852c0a8ee74cb656.jpeg


The first set I had was was a gift. There was no box or “LWB.” It’s was well loved and is now beyond use.  Later I acquired a second pack which has slight differences in artwork but it had the box and instructions sheet. 

 

Some of these designs influenced the Maybe Lenormand.
 

8DB45516-8617-404F-B5B5-E08342C7BF73.thumb.jpeg.86e84ab8451f78f86eecbe464fc7a3ef.jpeg

 

 

Those HAVE to be related to the Thomson Leng....

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28 minutes ago, gregory said:

My Alain LeFoll "cards" are on magazine paper... But I still love them.


I’ve thought of purchasing the magazine issue several times. But I would never have the courage to cut them out. 
 

28 minutes ago, gregory said:

Those HAVE to be related to the Thomson Leng....


It has crossed my mind. The art style is similar but some differences. 

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14 hours ago, mxlavender said:

Over time I have said that the Tarot and Petit Lenormand are closer together than the latter is to the Bohemian decks, &c. Both Tarot and the Petit Lenormand use emblem or allegorical images (Sun, Moon, Park, World, &c) rather than scenic or situational pictures (a gift, sick person, a conversation, &c). Consequently, both can be read much the same — I read tarot just as I do the PL. 

That's a good point, indeed, since I'm also interested in other fortune telling decks, and yes, it's not the same than Lenormand because of the scenic or situational pictures showing people doing things. In Lenormand there aren't so many people in the deck: Gentleman and Lady of course, the Rider and the child, and that's all!

With the Sibilla Italiana for exemple there are people on almost in all the cards! So not the same.

Edited by Decan
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The Teuila Fortune Telling Cards share cards with Lenormand but isn't: those are snake, heart, bouquet, ship, fish, letters, dog, sun, ring (I forget to mention other cards I think).

It's a very nice deck that I don't use much though, but I love its particular style.

 

5c07a020a46831df1ff4dcba86d0a61e.jpg

Edited by Decan
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15 hours ago, Decan said:

That's a good point, indeed, since I'm also interested in other fortune telling decks, and yes, it's not the same than Lenormand because of the scenic or situational pictures showing people doing things. In Lenormand there aren't so many people in the deck: Gentleman and Lady of course, the Rider and the child, and that's all!

With the Sibilla Italiana for exemple there are people on almost in all the cards! So not the same.


It is the key difference.  Hechtel selection is more or less allegorical.  Despite the aggressive push for the Coffee Cards’ origin the actual selection is more supportive of the emblem books.  These drew from both bestiaries and the classical fables. Essentially, they’re folkloric records — ballads, legends, Aesop, &c

 

16 hours ago, Decan said:

The Teuila Fortune Telling Cards share cards with Lenormand but isn't: those are snake, heart, bouquet, ship, fish, letters, dog, sun, ring (I forget to mention other cards I think).

It's a very nice deck that I don't use much though, but I love its particular style.


They are beautiful. It is such an elegant and delicate deck. 
 

 

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JudyReadsCards

Oh! Seeing Decan's Teuila reminded me of my Idalia -

 

1871551955_Idaliabox(Custom).jpg.ff4c6a9a2f5f600cdc905fa0e9d98115.jpg

 

 

1159763974_IdaliaGT.thumb.jpg.17b378d5182a6e44c42bd6d7b3e41cac.jpg

 

The image from the box, without the title, graces the backs of the cards.

 

From the LWB: "'Idalia' relies on the grouping of cards to foretell the future. It is no new-made pastime, being indeed, a re-discovery of a lost system which was in high renown a hundred years ago."

 

There are a few different cards, and a few somewhat different meanings assigned to some of the 'standard' ones. The LWB also offers its own particular way of reading a GT - essentially a card-by-card tour around the inner and outer squares that surround the Significator, which is always deliberately placed in the 21st position (like the Lady in the picture above). Some of the attitudes expressed in the verses are definitely "of their time", such as the Gentleman being a "powerful male influence" for a female enquirer, while for a male enquirer the Lady "foretells of fickleness and flirtation". But it's an awfully pretty deck. 🙂

 

Edited by JudyReadsCards
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On 8/11/2021 at 2:46 PM, Guest said:

The Zauberkarten was a deck I vacillated over and decided not to purchase. Never been sure it was the correct decision.

 

I have but two Lenormand variants. The first is the Whitman Fortune Telling cards.

7098D7C1-9D0F-4D32-9FE5-A15DFC9BF08C.thumb.jpeg.fbdd71e02d6ab032852c0a8ee74cb656.jpeg


The first set I had was was a gift. There was no box or “LWB.” It’s was well loved and is now beyond use.  Later I acquired a second pack which has slight differences in artwork but it had the box and instructions sheet. 

 

Some of these designs influenced the Maybe Lenormand.
 

8DB45516-8617-404F-B5B5-E08342C7BF73.thumb.jpeg.86e84ab8451f78f86eecbe464fc7a3ef.jpeg

 

The other set is The French Fortune Telling cards. It is American and from 1971 but based on designs of Alain le Foll for Elle magazine in the 60s. 
 

E6F12CE5-C829-4B77-ABBC-8D9E2AB2BBFB.thumb.jpeg.ef7d2734e25d06096dbf42f458a7e5f1.jpeg


I found it interesting that cards 1 - 4 are the same as the Whitman. It has a Queer essence and I love it.

 

D08E1582-CF18-4EF6-B4F6-850668EFBBF0.thumb.jpeg.09fd30faa9e4465e88ba543e4186f035.jpeg

 

The instructions use both proximity and reversals. I never use the latter.

I have just come across this deck but I have no instructions, would you be willing to send me photos of each page so I can learn to use the? Please. Jessica.

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1 hour ago, Jess said:

I have just come across this deck but I have no instructions, would you be willing to send me photos of each page so I can learn to use the? Please. Jessica.

Hi Jess,

Unfortunately this would break copyright laws and so we cannot allow this to happen.

Stephanelli

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I have it - the instructions really aren't ALL that helpful. (And as Stephanelli says, copyright precludes scanning. I THINK they are on line somewhere, if you look for Alain Le Foll....)

 

Hm. It says here you can get his email: https://rocketreach.co/alain-le-foll-email_23315705 if you want to ask him...

 

All the cards are on the Collector's forum if you are a member (if you aren't you can't see images.,)

Edited by gregory
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