Oracle Belline

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Decan said:

But we never know, maybe in 5 years or more, it could become popular in the English speaking world, the fashion trend is weird very often.

Very true — especially if you got an influencer on TikTok or Instagram. 

9 hours ago, Decan said:

Here in France it is very popular (and always in the scenery for all I know); people love it (one of the best sellings, and the deck is pretty expensive for a deck of the mass market). I don't think it is because it has a deep esotericism or something, it's likely more simple. Actually, it is probably because the first reading we had with a fortune teller here was with this deck, most often. We have memories with it.

Otherwise, it is an oracle that speaks about everyday life, not at all about the fundamental issues, pathworking and so on; it is an error if people think that. Well, a popular deck using by people. Just my opinion, of course, as always.

Yes. It’s popularity in France is enduring. 
 

When I was first introduced to it I found it fascinating. The artwork to me was not crude but relatable — something you “got” and understood without it being an intimidating masterpiece.

 

It has a practical application, but also depth and layers.  
 

4 hours ago, JudyReadsCards said:

But the damage is done.

So much for this book. 😖

 

Los Angeles strikes again. 

[katrinka]

13 hours ago, JudyReadsCards said:

Oh dear god.

Here's what Ms Steinbach says - "Interpretation: The lantern's light focuses on the truth of what is happening or reveals what is hidden. Danger or problems can be avoided if one is willing to look and pay attention."

 

Sweet Fanny Adams, that's horrible even for her.
 

9 hours ago, mxlavender said:

Los Angeles strikes again.

 

LOL, yes.
I remember one of her Lenormand meanings was "life coach." She probably prioritizes combos for "cheek implants" and various similar procedures that are common in certain parts of La La Land, but seldom seen anyplace where people don't have money to burn in a futile attempt to stretch out their wrinkles. 🤣

Edited August 5, 2021 by katrinka

[Decan]

18 hours ago, JudyReadsCards said:

She does, at least, include Edmond's (far more appropriate) meanings: "The Lantern warns of dangerous intentions due to jealousy, envy, and meanness. [It] can embody an evil individual."

Regarding this as well, I don't understand completely since I'm not sure at all that we have writings from Mage Edmond. The Texts and method in the LWB that comes with the deck are from Belline, the one who found out the old cards drew by Mage Edmond (another fortune teller who was living in the 19th century). Belline (Marcel Forget 1924-2002) was a fortune teller in Paris from 1950 to 1980. He began his career as an antique dealer, hence he likely found out the old cards in some attic, but there is a fantastic story around his discovery, who knows where lies the truth?!

Edited August 5, 2021 by Decan

[Decan]

14 hours ago, mxlavender said:

Very true — especially if you got an influencer on TikTok or Instagram. 

Finally it could be a better thing that this Oracle deck won't become that popular! 😁

[JudyReadsCards]

3 hours ago, Decan said:

Regarding this as well, I don't understand completely since I'm not sure at all that we have writings from Mage Edmond. The Texts and method in the LWB that comes with the deck are from Belline, the one who found out the old cards drew by Mage Edmond (another fortune teller who was living in the 19th century). Belline (Marcel Forget 1924-2002) was a fortune teller in Paris from 1950 to 1980...

 

Good point. But at least Belline was a fortune teller and seems to have understood what he was looking at. The Little Red Book and my own good sense will have to suffice. 😉

[Decan]

43 minutes ago, JudyReadsCards said:

 

Good point. But at least Belline was a fortune teller and seems to have understood what he was looking at. The Little Red Book and my own good sense will have to suffice. 😉

Yes, it’s true!

And who knows, maybe Ms Steinbach owns an old manuscript by Edmond on this oracle?!

 

For these sort of decks we really need books with a consistent historical part, and a consistent and relevant part regarding the meaning of the cards and the methods.

For what she said herself regarding the card Nº32 I’m disappointed…

 

[Decan]

I searched a little on the Internet yesterday, but I'm careful since information can be at times unverified or fanciful, actually this would need really much time to check everything; I guess to write a book needs extensive researchs too, people can't really write a book entre la poire et le fromage as we say at times here 😁

Well, for example, I found 2 dates of death for Belline/Marcel Forget: some say he passed away in 1994, others in 2002! 🤪

 

For Mage Edmond he knew Mlle Lenormand (some say he was a student of her), and 2 books written by him are referenced, one on Chiromancy, the other one is called "L'Urne du Destin"; we even can buy a copy of it on amazon but a customer said she was disappointed because she hoped a book on this oracle but not at all, it is on astrology and the Tarot of Thot (she likely meant the Etteilla)!

https://www.amazon.fr/LUrne-destin-lAvenir-dévoilé-Edmond/dp/2019218844/

To be honest, I doubt that we have writtings from Mage Edmond on this oracle if our National Library hasn't something, and because Grimaud didn't use any writtings by Edmond for their L-Red-B.

 

Okay, I certainly should focus on the Oracle Belline for an extended time if I want to read fluently with it, I tend to change, which is distracting!

Edited August 6, 2021 by Decan

[JudyReadsCards]

 

 

5 hours ago, Decan said:

I searched a little on the Internet yesterday, but I'm careful since information can be at times unverified or fanciful...

 

Too true, and sadly this applies to any "expertise" that may be on offer.

 

5 hours ago, Decan said:

entre la poire et le fromage

 

A delightfully descriptive turn of phrase. 😄

 

6 hours ago, Decan said:

I certainly should focus on the Oracle Belline for an extended time if I want to read fluently with it, I tend to change, which is distracting!

 

I'm afraid I am very guilty of this, too. I sometimes ponder what an amazing reader I might have been by now had I applied myself to just one or two decks. 🙄🙂

[Decan]

17 hours ago, JudyReadsCards said:

I'm afraid I am very guilty of this, too. I sometimes ponder what an amazing reader I might have been by now had I applied myself to just one or two decks. 🙄🙂

Ideally I should focus on 1 deck only, let's say during at least 1 year like Mxlavender did it in the past with this deck, but it would be something challenging for me I guess because I like to discover new decks too. But to reduce the number of decks I would like to deal with, yes, I think it's something I should consider for my own good.

 

Regarding the Oracle Belline I think I'll keep  the Blue Card (since it's up to everyone to choose to do so or not). It's a bit the idea of the Providence that can appear everywhere, I like that, while I'm not necessarily someone too optimistic in general.

[Decan]

But the idea of the Divine Providence still exists in the deck, it's the card 49, La Grâce

[Decan]

The topic of the resources to use is often challenging, even regarding French books for this particular oracle.

Among the critical remarks that come often you can read on reviews (for example):

Detailed but too much unusable psychological blabla on the cards, too short regarding the individual meanings, it lacks combinations, it lacks the meanings for 3 cards, it lacks spreads or more practical examples, the book isn’t structured enough, it’s confusing, don’t waste your money, and so on 🤪

Okay I make it sound a little depressing I recognize it, but it’s so that you see that we haven’t necessarily great resources.

But there are as well people happy with the books they purchased, I read many commentaries on Amazon for several books, and we find 4 or 5 stars often too (at times I think that it’s not deserved but that’s only my point).

 

I wanted to say here that I read one or two commentaries of people complaining because this or that book didn’t mention the reversed meanings!! 🙃

Apparently there are people who do that with the Belline, but it’s likely something highly personal and marginal, and at least from my point of view with this oracle, derivative.

Well… we are in the famous Kali Yuga, the Dark Age, it’s likely that! 🙂

Edited August 17, 2021 by Decan

[Decan]

Below a review regarding a new version of the Belline.

The lady is French so you can turn off the sound to see the video: it's a comparison between a new version and the old one.

Basically, she says that she isn't wild about her old copy (that she has in her collection for about 20 years and which looks totally new... 😁 ), but that she loves the new version.

Well.... 😕

According to what I heard the Oracle decks the most use here are l'Oracle de Belline, l'Oracle Gé and l'Oracle de la Triade. Likely our top 3 I think.

 

 

[katrinka]

4 hours ago, Decan said:

Below a review regarding a new version of the Belline.

The lady is French so you can turn off the sound to see the video

 

I left it on even if I can't understand it. French is nice to listen to.
 

4 hours ago, Decan said:

: it's a comparison between a new version and the old one.

Basically, she says that she isn't wild about her old copy (that she has in her collection for about 20 years and which looks totally new... 😁 ), but that she loves the new version.

Well.... 😕

 

The new version looks like angel cards. The colors are nice, but that trendy new age style...not for me!

It's funny, every now and then somebody will make a prettied-up, "improved" and/or "corrected" Belline. And everybody talks about how much "better" it is, but in a few years it's mostly forgotten. It's a flash in the pan.

But the old funky Belline has staying power. People always come back to it. And it's gone OOP now? No matter, people will find used copies on ebay.

 

4 hours ago, Decan said:

According to what I heard the Oracle decks the most use here are l'Oracle de Belline, l'Oracle Gé and l'Oracle de la Triade. Likely our top 3 I think.

 

l'Oracle de la Triade has some interesting-looking cards...do you have it? What do you think of it?

[Decan]

Yeah, on a trendy new age style and angel cards, absolutely, it makes me think of a Doreen Virtue deck somehow 😁

The old one isn’t OOP and I don’t think it will become soon (like our Marseille by Grimaud). They likely try to seduce people who don’t like its art (there are I guess), but the old one has something because of these drawings.

Honestly I think like you that this new version is just something that won’t last long.

 

Otherwise I don’t own myself the 2 other oracle decks I mentioned, but it’s that you see what oracle decks people here like and use the most; actually it’s very different than the Grand Lenormand or the Petit Oracle des Dames!

[katrinka]

18 minutes ago, Decan said:

Yeah, on a trendy new age style and angel cards, absolutely, it makes me think of a Doreen Virtue deck somehow 😁

 

Exactly. 🤣
 

18 minutes ago, Decan said:

The old one isn’t OOP and I don’t think it will become soon (like our Marseille by Grimaud).

 

Well that's good news!
 

18 minutes ago, Decan said:

They likely try to seduce people who don’t like its art (there are I guess), but the old one has something because of these drawings.

Honestly I think like you that this new version is just something that won’t last long.

 

They do that with everything these days. There's a lot of fad Tarots and Lenormands, too.
They come and go. 🙂
 

18 minutes ago, Decan said:

Otherwise I don’t own myself the 2 other oracle decks I mentioned, but it’s that you see what oracle decks people here like and use the most; actually it’s very different than the Grand Lenormand or the Petit Oracle des Dames!

 

Yes, I remember Chanah had l'Oracle Gé and she seemed to like it well enough. She blogged a few readings with it. It looked kind of plain to me, though, and I think it has cards in common with the Belline, so why not just use the Belline? 😁

I don't know if l'Oracle de la Triade would be something I'd use that much, but it does look stranger and more interesting than l'Oracle Gé. I wouldn't mind trying it out on an app if I can find one.

 

 

 

[bastetly]

1 hour ago, Decan said:

Yeah, on a trendy new age style and angel cards, absolutely, it makes me think of a Doreen Virtue deck somehow 😁

The old one isn’t OOP and I don’t think it will become soon (like our Marseille by Grimaud). They likely try to seduce people who don’t like its art (there are I guess), but the old one has something because of these drawings.

Honestly I think like you that this new version is just something that won’t last long.

 

Otherwise I don’t own myself the 2 other oracle decks I mentioned, but it’s that you see what oracle decks people here like and use the most; actually it’s very different than the Grand Lenormand or the Petit Oracle des Dames!

 

I tried to watch the wideo of the newer deck, but just could not bother to finis!  🤮  

 

How dare they try and replace the best card of the deck!  

Spoiler

I'll find it...

 

Spoiler

There's the little sweetie!

[Decan]

12 hours ago, bastetly said:

  Reveal hidden contents

There's the little sweetie!

Such a strong card, isn't it? 🙂

 

According to what I read Mage Edmond drew his cards when he was probably a young adult. Actually, he met Mlle Lenormand young when she was at the end of her career (it's possible his own deck was inspired by the deck used by Mlle Lenormand, since he saw it).

It is said that she recognized him as her successor.

Then he went to Paris and there he became a famous fortune teller, with many well known or famous clients at his times. The deck wasn't published, it was his own reading deck.

It's Marcel Belline who published it (around 1960 or so). Marcel Belline was a fortune teller as said above, but likely a psychic too, he made many stunning predictions in  newspapers which jump-start his career.

The end of his life was darkened by the lost of his son, and then gradually we lose track of him. It's his publisher who said that he passed away in 2002 (other people suggested 1994); likely the publisher was aware (because of the commercial rights).

 

It's what I found by cross-referencing information, of course more research would be needed here.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Decan

[Decan]

7 hours ago, katrinka said:

Yes, I remember Chanah had l'Oracle Gé and she seemed to like it well enough. She blogged a few readings with it. It looked kind of plain to me, though, and I think it has cards in common with the Belline, so why not just use the Belline? 😁

Interesting, I didn't know. Possibly people have results with the Oracle Gé.

For now, I'm in a time when I try to focus more on a few decks only, so I'm careful to don't disperse myself, but I'll take a look at some videos on YouTube out of curiosity; I have a general idea of what l'Oracle Gé looks though.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Decan

[Flaxen]

I’ve used the l’Oracle Gé in the past and liked it. I prefer Lenormand and Kipper though so it doesn’t get much of a look in. 

[katrinka]

Yes! It seemed to work very well. I just wasn't intrigued enough to try it for myself. And I already had my Lenormand and Kippers.
Now the Petit Oracle des Dames...that one is intriguing. 😁

[Decan]

I think I'll consider a bit this "Oracle Gé" 😉 since I don't think people are wild about this deck because of its art, the drawings are indeed "modest". Oddly the author of this deck did a art school when he was young; there is something that I don't understand completely with that, but the deck has likely "something" to be one of our best sellings for about 30 years. Some say  it has a connection with the Oracle Belline.

On its side the "Oracle de la Triade" is more or less the same age, about 30 years old.

The Belline is older of course (in the market for about 60 years now). A deck like the "Madame Indira" is probably older than 30 years, but it's another topic.

 

Regarding the Oracle Belline there are variations (generally slight for all I know) concerning the meaning of this or that card.

For the card 32. Mechanceté (Wickedness) for exemple, I read indeed that this card could be a warning about a (possible) threat, so it would be not that different from what said Ms Steinbach maybe, but I don't have her book anyway so I don't really know.

Actually the famous "dark lanterns" weren't only use by bandits, but as well by cops and watchmen; I don't think that cops were using daggers (?) but we don't see a bandit on the card while it's suggested imo (in the Petit Oracle des Dames the situation is clearer since the card displays a traitor and the card is also named that way!).

And for the Card 49. "Grâce" (Grace), there are people who consider this card as a "restrained providence" (because it is among the Saturn's cards), so there are indeed many aspects to meditate with the Belline. To compare information between several books is probably what I'll have to do!

And for reversals, I saw that there are people who teach this method that is theirs! I think this is a "YouTube thing" where anyone can have quickly an audience and begin to sell courses and so on. I heard critics about reading reversals with the Oracle Belline though; but now I have a better idea where this comes from.

 

In the booklet we can read that Marcel Belline named the card 28. Famille/Family, "the pelican". LOL. I really don't know what happened here since for everyone the card shows a hen with her chicks 😁

Edited August 28, 2021 by Decan
clarification

[Decan]

More I'm seeing this Oracle Gé, more I'm feeling attracted, it's a little odd since at first side, I can't say that I was really wild about it, its art maybe, but...

There are indeed several cards which are the same (with the Belline); the most obvious is the Bat (with the same meanings of "theft, loss"), also the Pyramid (same meaning of "elevation"), and certainly some more but I don't know well the Oracle Gé (61 cards, it's a big oracle!).

 

[Marina]

I love the Oracle Belline! I've done incredibly accurate readings with it, and I specially like the old vintage art and how it uses astrology in its structure.

I have both the Grimaud French one (mine is from 1961) and one that has been recently published in Brazil. Here you can see a comparission of them:

 

 

Now, about the deck with the new art... not my thing at all. I really hate how they've been making all decks with digital-new-agey-dreamy art! 🙄  Everything looks like a Colette Baron Reid deck these day... and I'm not saying she's bad (I have one of her decks and love it, digital art and all). It's just they are all looking the same... oracle art has been losing its gravitas, lol.

[Decan]

44 minutes ago, marinaoracles said:

I have both the Grimaud French one (mine is from 1961) and one that has been recently published in Brazil.

Oh My! You own a first edition of the Oracle Belline (and it looks like in pristine condition)!

I like the one they made in Brazil (I didn't know), faithful to the original. So in Brazil people love our Belline! I was beginning to think that no one apart us find it great 😁

 

44 minutes ago, marinaoracles said:

I really hate how they've been making all decks with digital-new-agey-dreamy art! 🙄

I definitely follow you here...

Edited September 7, 2021 by Decan

[katrinka]

5 hours ago, marinaoracles said:

I have both the Grimaud French one (mine is from 1961) and one that has been recently published in Brazil. Here you can see a comparission of them:

It looks like the new one has been redrawn - the linework is slightly different - but they respected the original and stuck very close to it! 

 

5 hours ago, marinaoracles said:

I really hate how they've been making all decks with digital-new-agey-dreamy art! 🙄  Everything looks like a Colette Baron Reid deck these day... and I'm not saying she's bad (I have one of her decks and love it, digital art and all). It's just they are all looking the same... oracle art has been losing its gravitas, lol.

Amen to that. I had a look at her website and she appears to have stepped into Doreen's (Virtue, NOT Valiente) vacated shoes. UGH.
There's a part of the website where you can pick a card. I got one called "Tender Embrace" with elephants on it. The elephants look like you're viewing them on bad shrooms. The text talks about compassion. Compassion is a VERY GOOD thing, but the text made it sound squicky and repulsive.

 

4 hours ago, Decan said:

I was beginning to think that no one apart us find it great

 

I do. I need to get mine out.
I just put away some decks, and what remains on the table are the ever-present Lenormand and Kippers, an Albano RWS for talking to people here, the Tarot Fortune Cards and the Thoth (of course) and a reproduction antique deck called Ye Witches. I tend to spread myself too thin. 🙄

Edited September 7, 2021 by katrinka