Hoping Andy B reads this.

[Guest]

While I'm reading Andy's book. Talking about the cards, he talks of the essence they have.

Now, I would really like the same for when the cloud is coming into the picture and influences all the cards. I noticed in one place in the book the cloud changes the star meaning to "bad luck". I would like to know this with all the cards.
a little wish/request I have. 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Guest

[Sadewa]

Well...... Andy DID talk of the essence of the Clouds......Right under the Keywords he wrote: "Misfortune is the essence of the Clouds (p.46)".

 

Andy sees the Clouds as the Greater Malefic in the traditional 36 symbols, it is the only card that can "cloud" other cards, i.e. change their meanings troublesome. 

 

I don't really think Andy is still here on this forum anymore... It seems that his account status has changed to "Guests".

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Sadewa said:

Well...... Andy DID talk of the essence of the Clouds......Right under the Keywords he wrote: "Misfortune is the essence of the Clouds (p.46)".

 

I know. But sometimes my brain can´t find the keyword/essence of the cloud and another card together.

 

3 hours ago, Sadewa said:

 

 

I don't really think Andy is still here on this forum anymore... It seems that his account status has changed to "Guests".

Maybe that's true, and he is not here anymore. But I thought I would put it out there anyway.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Guest

[WizardintheWoods]

From what I understand, the essence of a card is the same when it influences other cards as it is “as the stand alone” essence noted in Andy’s book. When I am thinking about it that is the main reason a card influences other cards, it’s essence. So misfortune is what the Clouds #6 brings to the table, in the case of Stars and Clover it totally reverse the meaning and that is why Andy specifically mentions them. 
I hope that helps and doesn’t muddy the waters further as I explaining it as best I can. 

[katrinka]

I think of card essence as the basic nature and function of what is pictured. Clouds, in Lenormand, are depicted as big storm clouds. What does a bad storm or hurricane do? It damages. There can be flooding, crops are ruined, the power goes out, high winds blow down trees and utility poles that might fall on homes and cars. Sometimes storms spawn tornadoes. People and animals, if they survive, often need to be rescued and relocated. There is a need for everything from financial aid to potable water. The dark side of the Clouds shows an approaching storm. The light side shows clearing skies, but people are still dealing with the aftermath. It can take years to rebuild. So yes - misfortune IS the essence of the Clouds.

Some people read Clouds as "confusion." I do NOT agree with this. The card is not called "Fog", it's storm clouds. And it's very clear that when Clouds such as these approach, you need to take shelter, board up your windows and take precautions. There's nothing confusing about that. And people certainly don't look up at the sky and become confused.

So yes - the Clouds can ruin even a nice card like the Stars. All your clarity and aspirations can end up on a back burner when you're in a situation like the people of New Orleans were during Katrina. Of course cards are generally metaphorical and you probably won't get a literal storm, but the Clouds have a similar effect on neighboring cards. They show up, and they wreck things.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, WizardintheWoods said:

From what I understand, the essence of a card is the same when it influences other cards as it is “as the stand alone” essence noted in Andy’s book. When I am thinking about it that is the main reason a card influences other cards, it’s essence. So misfortune is what the Clouds #6 brings to the table, in the case of Stars and Clover it totally reverse the meaning and that is why Andy specifically mentions them. 
I hope that helps and doesn’t muddy the waters further as I explaining it as best I can. 

Thank you! So, the Stars are only a special case then?

[WizardintheWoods]

No, as stated Clover is also reversed. I think you might be missing the point, think of a question, now think of a two card answer (rarely do I ever do a 2 card but for simplicity’s sake…) and Clouds is one of them. How does Clouds cause misfortune to your other card in context with your question. That’s the best I can explain to you, trial and error/practice teaches you the rest and the best 😀

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, WizardintheWoods said:

No, as stated Clover is also reversed. I think you might be missing the point, think of a question, now think of a two card answer (rarely do I ever do a 2 card but for simplicity’s sake…) and Clouds is one of them. How does Clouds cause misfortune to your other card in context with your question. That’s the best I can explain to you, trial and error/practice teaches you the rest and the best 😀

Yes, and the cloud then changes that card meaning (when you pair them). It has to be a general conception of what that original card changes into? Other than just misfortune.

[WizardintheWoods]

Ah and there is the beauty of Lenormand - generalities give way to specifics. Again practice is your best avenue to learning this, not me. 

[joy]

If I would draw two cards about my love life and I would get Heart - Clouds, I would read this as something is brewing, a storm is on the horizon.

[katrinka]

5 hours ago, Smilla said:

Yes, and the cloud then changes that card meaning (when you pair them). It has to be a general conception of what that original card changes into? Other than just misfortune.

 

What? No.
The cards mean what they mean. They don't "change into" anything. If you get Fish-Clouds it doesn't mean that the Fish aren't money any more. It means that your money is affected by trouble and misfortune.

[bastetly]

The last I checked when reading his blog, he was writing that the essence of CLOUDS is "disturbances".  Which still fits oc,  w trouble, misfortune, a storm brewing...  

[Guest]

So an update on this. I have found the section in Andy's book where he writes about this. I feel pretty stupid. But I thought if any other user in this forum reads this and has had the same thoughts, he writes about this on page 111 in the section  "Card themes".

Edited October 14, 2021 by Guest

[gregory]

Everything is in Andy's book in the end.

 

 

While he is much missed, he already wrote it all !

[Panda]

On 9/27/2021 at 1:43 AM, katrinka said:

I think of card essence as the basic nature and function of what is pictured. Clouds, in Lenormand, are depicted as big storm clouds. What does a bad storm or hurricane do? It damages. There can be flooding, crops are ruined, the power goes out, high winds blow down trees and utility poles that might fall on homes and cars. Sometimes storms spawn tornadoes. People and animals, if they survive, often need to be rescued and relocated. There is a need for everything from financial aid to potable water. The dark side of the Clouds shows an approaching storm. The light side shows clearing skies, but people are still dealing with the aftermath. It can take years to rebuild. So yes - misfortune IS the essence of the Clouds.

Some people read Clouds as "confusion." I do NOT agree with this. The card is not called "Fog", it's storm clouds. And it's very clear that when Clouds such as these approach, you need to take shelter, board up your windows and take precautions. There's nothing confusing about that. And people certainly don't look up at the sky and become confused.

So yes - the Clouds can ruin even a nice card like the Stars. All your clarity and aspirations can end up on a back burner when you're in a situation like the people of New Orleans were during Katrina. Of course cards are generally metaphorical and you probably won't get a literal storm, but the Clouds have a similar effect on neighboring cards. They show up, and they wreck things.

I sometimes do see Clouds as confusion. Especially with the Stars - if you look at the sky when it's cloudy at night, you can't see the Stars. Hence there's an element of confusion caused by that combo (to me, anyway). 

[katrinka]

10 hours ago, Panda said:

I sometimes do see Clouds as confusion. Especially with the Stars - if you look at the sky when it's cloudy at night, you can't see the Stars. Hence there's an element of confusion caused by that combo (to me, anyway). 

You do you. My view is that the compass was invented over 2000 years ago and widely available, since even a lodestone on a string will work. By the 12th century - well before the development of Lenormand - it was known in Europe. People were well aware that the stars aren't always visible and had alternative methods of navigation.

The compass was invented more than 2000 years ago. The first compasses were made of lodestone, a naturally magnetized stone of iron, in Han dynasty China (202 BC – 220 AD). It was originally called the "South Pointing Fish" The compass was later used for navigation during the Chinese Song Dynasty (960–1279 AD), as described by Shen Kuo. Later compasses were made of iron needles, magnetized by striking them with a lodestone. Magnetized needles and compasses were first described in medieval Europe by the English theologian Alexander Neckam (1157–1217 AD). The first usage of a compass in Western Europe and the Islamic world was recorded in around 1190.[5] Dry compasses begin appearing around 1300 in Medieval Europe and the Medieval Islamic world. This was replaced in the early 20th century by the liquid-filled magnetic compass.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_compass

[Panda]

Fair call. The majority of people couldn't navigate their way out of a paperbag without physically seeing either the land or stars. Just my opinion.

 

I think of it as an analogy. As Andy B says about the Stars "never make camp under a cloudy sky". Stars as an indication of the mind and how clear sighted and focused you are, with the Clouds could bring about a state of confusion, a lack of clarity or direction. 

[katrinka]

With storm clouds like that, the thing to do If one is away from home is to head for high ground and find shelter. While the Stars can be clarity and they can be affected to their detriment by neighboring cards, I really don't see "confusion" here due to the sheer severity of the Clouds.