VII of Swords

[Guest]

VII of Swords is🌛 in ♒️. Isn’t this a card of intuitive wisdom? 
 

What do we think? 🤔

Edited November 15, 2021 by Guest

[katrinka]

It's a theft in the RWS.
Crowley titled it "Futility."
https://www.corax.com/tarot/cards/swords-7.html

 

Both are alluding to the same concept. From the link:
"Therefore, the Seven of Swords can talk of trickery, cheating, sudden affronts, juggling and intentional confusing with unrestrained Mercurian amorality. Though, all the lists are bound to fail, even the clever Swords cannot escape the hand of fate."

[Guest]

There’s nothing in A. E. Waite’s Key to The Tarot to say VII of Swords means theft. In fact… he said it was a “good card”.

 

Think… What happens when the Moon is in Aquarius?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Raggydoll]

I moved this to a better category. 
 

The PKT says :

 

A man in the act of carrying away five swords rapidly; the two others of the card remain stuck in the ground. A camp is close at hand. Divinatory Meanings: Design, attempt, wish, hope, confidence; also quarrelling, a plan that may fail, annoyance. The design is uncertain in its import, because the significations are widely at variance with each other. Reversed: Good advice, counsel, instruction, slander, babbling.

 

This does emphasize both positive and negative meanings. The imagery in combination with “A man in the act of carrying away five swords rapidly” and “attempt”, “confidence”,  “a plan that may fail” etc is what has made many see this as a card of theft or betrayal, and sometimes also as immature pranks. 

 

[katrinka]

20 minutes ago, TheAlchemistsAbode said:

There’s nothing in A. E. Waite’s Key to The Tarot to say VII of Swords means theft. In fact… he said it was a “good card”.

 

What Raggy said. It's not a completely bad card, but it's not really good, either. Nor does Waite call it "a good card."
He doesn't use the word "theft", but he does say "A man in the act of carrying away five swords rapidly." In addition, he's looking over his shoulder in the image. In most cases, one can infer theft from that.
There is no mention of twin flames.

 

 

20 minutes ago, TheAlchemistsAbode said:

Think… What happens when the Moon is in Aquarius?

A lot of things can happen.

https://lunaf.com/astrology/moon-in-zodiac/aquarius/

 

But no reputable source mentions "twin flames."

Edited November 15, 2021 by katrinka

[Guest]

🙏thank you so much… I look forward to more discussion around this card

[gregory]

Ah the trickery/ deceit card.  Watch out for being cheated out of something....

[Raggydoll]

I believe Rachel Pollack called this as a card to look out for because it can indicate infidelity. I’d say it can even indicate someone who is having an affair because they like to live dangerously. Or that they are sleeping with the spouse of someone they wish to secretly get back at. The type of intellectual scheming that this card indicates is likely to hurt someone, at least in the long run. If you look at the imagery, it doesn’t say “intuition”. If anything, it says “adrenaline rush” ! 

[Guest]

Yes, and with the Moon’s gravitational pull on the water of the Earth (and subsequently 70/80% of our being as humans) then it’s understandable why some misinterpret their emotions; nobody wants to lie, cheat, steal or hurt anyone when they come out their mother’s womb. 

[katrinka]

14 minutes ago, TheAlchemistsAbode said:

Yes, and with the Moon’s gravitational pull on the water of the Earth (and subsequently 70/80% of our being as humans)

 

The gravitational effects of the moon are far too minuscule to generate any meaningful effects on brain activity, let alone behavior. Second, the moon’s gravitational force affects only open bodies of water, such as oceans and lakes, but not contained sources of water, such as the human brain. And thirdly, Earth exerts a gravitational pull on the moon 80 times stronger than the moon’s pull on the Earth. The earth also has a gravitational pull on US, that's why we don't go floating off.

But I suppose it's more fun, in a Dark Ages kind of way, to ignore that and ascribe everything to the moon.

 

19 minutes ago, TheAlchemistsAbode said:

then it’s understandable why some misinterpret their emotions; nobody wants to lie, cheat, steal or hurt anyone when they come out their mother’s womb. 

 

The level of our cognitive development at the moment of birth is irrelevant to "misinterpreting emotions" in adulthood.

 

[Guest]

🙏

 

[Newpath]

I usually see it as deceit or somebody trying to steal something from you. However I have had it in the action stage and the first thing I saw was ‘take what you can and run’. However I am very new to this and am probably way off. Just thought I’d share an alternative way that I’ve personally seen this card.

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, Newpath said:

I usually see it as deceit or somebody trying to steal something from you. However I have had it in the action stage and the first thing I saw was ‘take what you can and run’. However I am very new to this and am probably way off. Just thought I’d share an alternative way that I’ve personally seen this card.

That's actually a good interpretation if it fits the context. If it came up as advice, that could fit.
Of course, it might also be advising the sitter to guard against theft. It just depends on the situation and the nearby cards. But that's a good angle on it. 🙂

[gregory]

2 hours ago, Newpath said:

I usually see it as deceit or somebody trying to steal something from you. However I have had it in the action stage and the first thing I saw was ‘take what you can and run’. However I am very new to this and am probably way off. Just thought I’d share an alternative way that I’ve personally seen this card.

Yes indeed - nice one !

[Newpath]

Thank you both for the feedback. 😀

[Eric13]

Waite purposely leaves his cards open for interpretation. He even says so in the larger books that come in some of the decks packages. Yes, does give specific word meanings to his cards that may seem to contradict their meaning, but taking them only one way is a plan that may fail.

[katrinka]

59 minutes ago, Eric13 said:

Waite purposely leaves his cards open for interpretation. He even says so in the larger books that come in some of the decks packages. Yes, does give specific word meanings to his cards that may seem to contradict their meaning, but taking them only one way is a plan that may fail.

True, to a point. But the cards have a basic essence that should be adhered to, or it all degenerates into vagueness and confusion.

In the interest of disclosure, I'm going to admit I was wrong when I said Waite never called the 7 of Swords "a good card." He did, it's in the "Some Additional Meanings of the Lesser Arcana" chapter.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/tarot/pkt/pkt0304.htm

(He did not, however, call it "intuitive wisdom." I don't think anyone who can read cards would say that of the 7 of Swords. 🙄)
 

I'd forgotten because I never look at those. A lot of them are nuts, just take a moment to read through that stuff. Wowzers.

So while Waite should be consulted about his own deck, a little discernment and a grain of salt are in order, too. And it's important to remember that it's the Golden Dawn method, with some blinds added in by Waite so us unwashed masses wouldn't be privy to the secrets of his S00per SeKrit Mahdjiqueel Order. 🧙‍♂️ If a card interpretation isn't clear, consult the works of other GD members. One very easy way to do this is just to see what the card refers to in the Thoth. Crowley spilled Waite's beans. 😁

[Eric13]

Yes there's an essence the cards, no question there. When the OP made the post, I continued on where there were actual words in the continued post in which the OP brought up Waite, after yours. I would say the essence belongs more to the number, than the card because of the various pictures used to describe it through all the tarot makers over the centuries. Commercial or serious. I personally always like Crowleys definitions. 

[katrinka]

38 minutes ago, Eric13 said:

I would say the essence belongs more to the number, than the card because of the various pictures used to describe it through all the tarot makers over the centuries.

 

I should clarify: by "essence", I mean a kind of pure, "distilled" meaning. Boiling the the card down to a single word, often. The pictures can play a part in that, so essence can vary from one deck to the next.

[Guest]

On 11/15/2021 at 7:41 PM, TheAlchemistsAbode said:

VII of Swords is🌛 in ♒️. Isn’t this a card of intuitive wisdom? 
 

What do we think? 🤔

Hi TheAlchemistsAbode!

 

For Me this card is : The mind is rapid, the mind is cognizing, the mind is striking.

The mind breaks out “beyond the limits”, tries to understand something beyond the bounds of what is understood.

7 of swords, also: science in all its diversity and completeness (and the corresponding level of intelligence); Innovation. Discoveries. Intricacy. Interesting ideas, concepts, forms. «WOW!»

 

Analytically and at the same time very creatively thinking individuals.

An exceptionally self-sufficient, self-confident, agile intellect: from the most skilful charlatan to a modern scientist. Alternative thinking, different from others (as well as ideas/concepts). All sorts of puzzles and riddles that require answers.

 

Perfect consciousness. Understanding of many things. Enlightenment of the mind. Strategy as an art. Exceptional / intense intellectual involvement in the process, with a certain "aggressive" note, pressure, and a desire to understand "more than it is given to understand." Well-thought-out, refined strategic thinking.

New horizons of the "understood" when the intellect drives to a different, higher level. Sophisticated mind.

 

Nuances: "intellectual superiority";  the motive of purposeful aggression, as a desire to "to dot the "I's" and cross the "T's."” ; “to win and establish your own laws at whatever cost” ; idealization of any concepts / ideas ; aggressive mind ; cunning (tricky, sly) and resourcefulness ; like a slug in salt, like a cat on a hot tin roof…

[gregory]

I've never seen this card as anything like that positive, and the idea of theft and deceit is central, for me.

[katrinka]

32 minutes ago, gregory said:

I've never seen this card as anything like that positive, and the idea of theft and deceit is central, for me.

Agree. Even in the Thoth, where it's titled "Futility", it alludes to trickery:

"Now none of the Suits is lucky within the Seven - the Wands burn down, the Cups nearly drown and the Disks are out cold - yet the Swords are least willing to accept their fate and activate every trick and list they can figure to get along. And considering that the Swords are pure intellect, they are embarrassingly good in figuring out tricks..
Therefore, the Seven of Swords can talk of trickery, cheating, sudden affronts, juggling and intentional confusing with unrestrained Mercurian amorality. Though, all the lists are bound to fail, even the clever Swords cannot escape the hand of fate."
https://www.corax.com/tarot/cards/swords-7.html

 

 

[Guest]

At times I feel this card differently, but not drastically ...: the description above is most often (in my practice). For me 7 swords = symbiosis of symbolism of number 7 and the elements of air…This is – power of intellect. Cool head (You try to handle it case-by-case).

 

 

But, for example, in my personal mythological tarot deck, I decided that 7 swords would be a Trojan horse. The Trojan Horse was the wooden horse used by the Greeks, during the Trojan War, to enter the city of Troy and win the war. Metaphorically, a "Trojan horse" has come to mean any trick or stratagem that causes a target to invite a foe into a securely protected bastion or place. A malicious computer program that tricks users into willingly running it is also called a "Trojan horse" or simply a "Trojan".

 

 

Strategy is one of the keywords for this card. Successful strategy.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Guest

[gregory]

Burglars, con men and pickpockets use strategy. Still no way is it a positive card.

 

By the way - is your deck up for viewing ? I note that image comes from the Maître de l'Enéide. in the Louvre - are the cards all taken from existing art ? 

Edited November 22, 2021 by gregory

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, gregory said:

Burglars, con men and pickpockets use strategy. Still no way is it a positive card.

 

 

Not only…. Strategy is a general plan to achieve one or more long-term or overall goals under conditions of uncertainty. In the sense of the "art of the general", which included several subsets of skills including military tactics, siegecraft, logistics etc.

 

22 minutes ago, gregory said:

 

 

By the way - is your deck up for viewing ? I note that image comes from the Maître de l'Enéide. in the Louvre -

 

 

Yes, the deck has been ready for a long time and I use it ...

 

All images on the cards are classic ART, or antique. And "public domain" (not protected by copyright, allowed for free use, including commercial).