Jell-OHeart Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) Hi! I would love it if we all could talk a bit, and start a list, about the purpose all the cards have. What they do (deal with the surrounding circumstances in their own unique ways) For example: Whip- Its purpose is to correct and revise Flowers - Its purpose is to arrange agreements Fish - Its purpose is to "lubricate", facilitating exchanges. Snake - Induces/seduces What do you think? Edited January 9, 2022 by Jell-OHeart
WizardintheWoods Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) Hello! I find that lists tend to limit me, I get stuck in keyword land if that corollary makes sense. Learning the essence of the card, such as Andy teaches in his book and then applying it to the context of the question is how I read of course with proximity. Edited January 9, 2022 by WizardintheWoods
Decan Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) I don’t deal that way with Lenormand either. Actually it’s the idea of a purpose for each of the cards that bothers me a little. The cards can represent actions, but also circumstances and things, and people too. For example Bouquet can be a gift, a smile, or a younger woman. Fish is mainly money for me; it can shows « many of ». At times a business man (King of Diamonds). Edited January 9, 2022 by Decan
katrinka Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Decan said: I don’t deal that way with Lenormand either. Actually it’s the idea of a purpose for each of the cards that bothers me a little. The cards can represent actions, but also circumstances and things, and people too. For example Bouquet can be a gift, a smile, or a younger woman. Fish is mainly money for me; it can shows « many of ». At times a business man (King of Diamonds). Exactly. If I see a venomous snake in my path, I'm not thinking "Oh, it's going to try to seduce me." I'm looking for the best way to give it a wide berth because if I step too close, it will bite. If there's a purpose to snakes, it's eating, mating and not getting stepped on. Its purpose is survival. But that's the core purpose of the other living beings depicted on the cards, too. "Seduction" is a more mythic take, but when you consider that the snake in the garden was cursed to crawl on his belly when it came to light what he did, and so would have had limbs at the time he was "seducing", it all falls apart. The Snake on the card does not have limbs, nor should it be depicted in a tree with fruit. Likewise the Fish. They don't go around "lubricating" things. These jumping fish are indicative of many more beneath the surface. The guys on the fishing boat would do well to cast their nets. Money, profits, abundance: But what is the "purpose" of a fish? Again, survival. The card doesn't concern itself with that. The men on the boat are at cross-purposes. 😉 The purpose of a whip or birchrod bundle is punishment, which is quite different from correction. That's why they're often shown together, like crossed swords. One, both, or neither may be "correct." It's a strife card: Likewise with the Flowers. Somebody arranged them, they don't make arrangements. I don't know where this idea of reading the cards according to "purpose" came from. I can only advise avoiding bad books, websites and youtube channels. Edited January 9, 2022 by katrinka
DanielJUK Posted January 9, 2022 Posted January 9, 2022 @Jell-OHeart just to let you know I've adjusted your topic title on this thread to make it a little more descriptive about what the thread is about, so people visiting the forum can easily get an overview. I hope you are okay with my change. Let me know if you want me to change it to something different but I thought this fitted the discussion much better 🙂
Jell-OHeart Posted January 10, 2022 Author Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) Maybe we could do a proximity meanings list then? on the essence. Near, middle, far. Edited January 10, 2022 by Jell-OHeart
katrinka Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 It's already been done, for the most part, a long time ago: https://marygreer.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/evening-worlds-magazine-tell-fortunes-1903-version-21.jpg What isn't covered by the PL sheet can be found in Björn Meuris' Petit Lenormand Encyclopedia Vol. 2, which deals entirely with distance reading. And it's not as simple as "near, middle, far." Cards are generally classed as very near, near, very far, and far, with no special significance given to middle distance. Often, it should also be considered whether a card lies above or below the significator, or to the left or right of it. Andy Boroveshengra's Lenormand Thirty Six Cards also does an excellent job of addressing distance reading. I'd suggest working through both. I won't compose a list, since everything is covered in the three sources I named. It's always wrong to plagiarize. But it's all very simple once you grasp the logic behind it: we want good things close, where they're in reach, and bad things as far away as possible.
Jell-OHeart Posted January 10, 2022 Author Posted January 10, 2022 I did not mean that anyone's work should be plagiarized. You sound a bit agitated, I´m sorry if I have offended you in some way. But one should be able to talk about these things? I have not seen any clear summary from Andy on how the meanings of the cards change based on proximity. I must check Björns books out then. Thank you.
Raggydoll Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 17 minutes ago, Jell-OHeart said: I did not mean that anyone's work should be plagiarized. You sound a bit agitated, I´m sorry if I have offended you in some way. But one should be able to talk about these things? I have not seen any clear summary from Andy on how the meanings of the cards change based on proximity. I must check Björns books out then. Thank you. I don’t think Katrinka was agitated, I think she just tried to explain it in a factual manner. No one thinks you were out to plagiarize and you are right that we absolutely can talk about these things 🙂. The books Katrinka mentions are excellent sources, with them you will have a solid foundation and so much more!
katrinka Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 Thanks, Raggy, and you're correct, I'm not "agitated." Not sure where that came from. 2 hours ago, Jell-OHeart said: I have not seen any clear summary from Andy on how the meanings of the cards change based on proximity. Starting on page 123: Proximity - being near to or far from the significator and other key cards.
Jell-OHeart Posted January 10, 2022 Author Posted January 10, 2022 yes, I see no clear summary on all the cards change based on proximity. I must be blind.
Raggydoll Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 18 minutes ago, Jell-OHeart said: yes, I see no clear summary on all the cards change based on proximity. I must be blind. There is no list that sums that up, it is contained and explained throughout the text. Why not take notes and write out your own list in your private notebook? 🙂 (I’m asking that you don’t do it here for copyright reasons, unless you have explicit permission from Andy to do so).
gregory Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 Any useful "summary list" of individual cards based on proximity would have to come from the logic found in your own experience. I think Andy makes that very clear. Some things cannot be learned in any other way. Read the sections on each card and then apply the principles given in the section Katrinka cites, and make your own notes.
selena Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 As far as I am aware, there is no text that gives defined significations for cards near/middle/far. Neither Björn, Erna or Andy did that. It does not work like that. Some cards were never given explicit near and far meanings like the flowers for example. The best way to understand it is to take the snake, mice, fox or the clouds. The farther away the mice fall the less chance you have of “seeing them” in action which means less chance of recovery. They still steal and spoil whether near or far. Snake far away has less chance to strike but next to the clouds she is well hidden and can poison whatever is near. Andy does include this information on circlestead.com. Björn has info in his book.
Jell-OHeart Posted January 10, 2022 Author Posted January 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Raggydoll said: There is no list that sums that up, it is contained and explained throughout the text. Why not take notes and write out your own list in your private notebook? 🙂 (I’m asking that you don’t do it here for copyright reasons, unless you have explicit permission from Andy to do so). That was what I was saying 🙂 And I was curious if there has been any interesting discussion about it here. I like to talk about things when I´m learning. But now I know that, and I won´t do it here 🙂
Jell-OHeart Posted January 10, 2022 Author Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, selena said: As far as I am aware, there is no text that gives defined significations for cards near/middle/far. Neither Björn, Erna or Andy did that. It does not work like that. I don´t remember where exactly in the book, but he writes about an example where you are supposed to use the "middle" meaning of a card. How am I supposed to know which meaning this is? So I am supposed to guess? It´s frustrating when you have a lot of questions and no one to talk to 😄 Anyway, Thank you! Edited January 10, 2022 by Jell-OHeart
joy Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Jell-OHeart said: I don´t remember where exactly in the book, but he writes about an example where you are supposed to use the "middle" meaning of a card. How am I supposed to know which meaning this is? So I am supposed to guess? It´s frustrating when you have a lot of questions and no one to talk to 😄 Anyway, Thank you! If you work through the book and think about the cards deeply you should be able to understand it and assign a middle meaning to the card. Also learning to read Lenormand is a life time thing, it can not be learned like you learn calculating. There are so many nuances and practicing will help and tell!
katrinka Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Jell-OHeart said: I don´t remember where exactly in the book, but he writes about an example where you are supposed to use the "middle" meaning of a card. How am I supposed to know which meaning this is? So I am supposed to guess? It´s frustrating when you have a lot of questions and no one to talk to 😄 Anyway, Thank you! Middle-level meanings are mentioned on page 124. The page after this one: 8 hours ago, katrinka said: Starting on page 123: Proximity - being near to or far from the significator and other key cards.
gregory Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 Exactly. It's all there. You just need to study the book thoroughly instead of asking others to point to the right page....
frankie Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 There's a lot of helpful guidance here, much of which I've tried to follow since I'm new to Lenormand as well. For me what's helping is practice, and what makes practice useful is writing down my readings (as opposed to a master list of meanings), coming up with good, specific questions (often with a timeframe baked in), and going back to see how my readings compared to what actually happened. It might feel counterintuitive, but in combination with a good resource, letting the cards show you how they respond to a range of different questions on a range of different topics will help clarify those different levels of meanings. Worrying about compiling a definitive list of meanings first, at least for me, gets in the way of seeing how flexible the system is and how it works in practice, especially since these meanings have been expertly spelled out before. The way I see it, it's like, you wouldn't learn a new language by strictly memorizing words from a dictionary nor would you spend all your time comparing dictionaries and discussing definitions because then you'd miss out on tone, nuance, and those other markers that make some words appropriate or not depending on the real-life context. You have to experience how a language is used out in the wild! Again, speaking for myself, real-life examples have been showing me how the meanings of the cards from the resources listed here play out, and I find that discussion helps more when trying to see how a reading went right or wrong. With Lenormand, there are rules to follow and as a beginner, I struggle with this! Best of luck to you in your studies.
Jell-OHeart Posted January 10, 2022 Author Posted January 10, 2022 2 hours ago, katrinka said: Middle-level meanings are mentioned on page 124. The page after this one: I have read that.
Jell-OHeart Posted January 10, 2022 Author Posted January 10, 2022 Thank you all for your help. @DanielJUK Feel free to delete this thread. I don´t want to take up unnecessary space, I would appreciate it, thank you!
Jell-OHeart Posted January 10, 2022 Author Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, gregory said: Exactly. It's all there. You just need to study the book thoroughly instead of asking others to point to the right page.... That´s not what I´m asking for... Edited January 10, 2022 by Jell-OHeart
DanielJUK Posted January 10, 2022 Posted January 10, 2022 27 minutes ago, Jell-OHeart said: Thank you all for your help. @DanielJUK Feel free to delete this thread. I don´t want to take up unnecessary space, I would appreciate it, thank you! There is some interesting discussion on this page which might help future Lenormand Readers in their learning about this topic and we don't delete useful threads. So going to lock and close this thread instead to archive it. Thanks
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