Siavahda Posted February 14, 2022 Posted February 14, 2022 I recently opened up my copy of Yoshi Yoshitani's Tarot of the Divine - which has linen cardstock - and was horrified to find the cards were appallingly bowed. I've seen decks that are a bit bent before, but that's right out of the shrinkwrap, and never this severe. After a lot of digging, I came across some references (most clearly this review of the Divine deck) that talk about linen cardstock getting bowed in response to the wrong kind of air humidity. Does anyone know more about this? I haven't been able to find specifics, like what level of humidity is required to keep linen cardstock happy! I want to make sure this doesn't happen again, but I'm coming up blank when trying to research clear guidelines. Anyone else had this problem, and/or know how to prevent it?
katrinka Posted February 14, 2022 Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) A lot of my decks are on linen stock, and I haven't had that issue. (It's notoriously humid where I live.) The review says "As for production specs, the matte linen finish worked with the aesthetics of the deck art, so I loved that design decision. Note that the porosity of this type of cardstock does mean that in certain levels of humidity, the cardstock will bow. The more porous the cardstock or paper used, the more this is a situation." Linen is a finish, it simply means the surface is textured. It doesn't have anything to do with porosity that I'm aware of. I don't have any decks from that publisher and so don't know anything about the type of stock/paper they use. But the deck and book set is going for $16.77 on amazon, so I'm guessing it's cheap stock. Generally, riffling and bridging will keep a deck straight. Similarly, you can just take the whole deck and bend it the other way, being careful not to crease the cards. If humidity is a concern, store the deck with dessicant. That's a good idea in a humid climate anyway, it keeps things from getting mildewed. https://smile.amazon.com/Transparent-Desiccant-Packets-Moisture-Electronics/dp/B08YJH2J6Q/ Edited February 14, 2022 by katrinka
Eno Posted February 14, 2022 Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) I have had a look at Yoshi Yoshitani's Tarot at amazon and it has nearly 5000 happy customers and a 5 star rating, so I assume it won't be severly bent usually. Maybe yours was handled badly by the postman... Edited February 14, 2022 by Eno
Siavahda Posted February 14, 2022 Author Posted February 14, 2022 27 minutes ago, Eno said: I have had a look at Yoshi Yoshitani's Tarot at amazon and it has nearly 5000 happy customers and a 5 star rating, so I assume it won't be severly bent usually. Maybe yours was handled badly by the postman... A few other reviews I found did mention issues with the cards being bowed/bent. Plus, most reviews are written very soon after receiving the item, so it doesn't necessarily mean that the deck holds up over time. I don't think it's a postman issue, since I've had the deck for a few years, and as far as I can remember, it was fine when I first received it. But I opened it the other day after not touching it in at least a year, and...SUPER bowed cards. 5 hours ago, katrinka said: A lot of my decks are on linen stock, and I haven't had that issue. (It's notoriously humid where I live.) The review says "As for production specs, the matte linen finish worked with the aesthetics of the deck art, so I loved that design decision. Note that the porosity of this type of cardstock does mean that in certain levels of humidity, the cardstock will bow. The more porous the cardstock or paper used, the more this is a situation." Linen is a finish, it simply means the surface is textured. It doesn't have anything to do with porosity that I'm aware of. I don't have any decks from that publisher and so don't know anything about the type of stock/paper they use. But the deck and book set is going for $16.77 on amazon, so I'm guessing it's cheap stock. Generally, riffling and bridging will keep a deck straight. Similarly, you can just take the whole deck and bend it the other way, being careful not to crease the cards. If humidity is a concern, store the deck with dessicant. That's a good idea in a humid climate anyway, it keeps things from getting mildewed. https://smile.amazon.com/Transparent-Desiccant-Packets-Moisture-Electronics/dp/B08YJH2J6Q/ I'm not in a humid environment, but a very very dry one, and since I've had books that have 'dried out' and become bowed/bent in much the same way as these cards, I was wondering if the deck needs more humidity, not less... Unfortunately I've never had any luck at unbending a deck, or book, that gets like this. I did try bending them the other way, but not much luck. I've kind of written off this deck, but I'm anxious that this doesn't happen to my other linen decks. Which do seem fine at the moment - suggesting you're probably right about it being the cardstock of this particular deck, not anything to do with a linen finish - but they've been stored in different places, and I'm worried it's the difference in storage locations that have kept my other decks in good condition. So it's reassuring to hear you've had no problems with your decks!
katrinka Posted February 14, 2022 Posted February 14, 2022 14 minutes ago, Siavahda said: I'm not in a humid environment, but a very very dry one, and since I've had books that have 'dried out' and become bowed/bent in much the same way as these cards, I was wondering if the deck needs more humidity, not less... Unfortunately I've never had any luck at unbending a deck, or book, that gets like this. I did try bending them the other way, but not much luck. I don't have personal experience with that, so I turned to google and got this: https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=497324&forum=2&start=0 (The "click of death" can apparently happen in dry environments when you bend cards the other way. They make a clicking sound and warp in the other direction. Yikes.) It might help to raise the humidity by cooling the air (if that doesn't make you freeze!) Some other suggestions were storing them in a Porper's Clip or a card press. Those are no help - they're made for playing cards and aren't large enough for a Tarot - but they work by pressure. So maybe raise the humidity a bit and stack some heavy books on top of the deck for a few days? A couple of people also suggested storing cards in a cigar humidor. There's different things available to keep in humidors to keep cigars from drying out: https://www.holts.com/clubhouse/cigar-101/humidification-buying-guide That's all I could dig up, and yeah...it's a lot of trouble and possibly some expense. I'd probably just live with the bend, if it isn't too extreme. Sorry that's the best I could come up with. Maybe somebody else has an easier solution.
gregory Posted February 14, 2022 Posted February 14, 2022 One thing - do NOT keep decks - linen or otherwise - in sealed plastic containers. That'll do it. Humidity -ultimately followed my MOULD My Divine is fine.
Niobium Posted February 14, 2022 Posted February 14, 2022 Although I've not had trouble with my sealed plastic containers, I know this is in part due to how the wettest time of year here is also the coldest, which means the furnace is running, and our house dries out *enormously*. That said, my goal is to get everything into stacking drawers, both for accessibility and breathability.
HollisAvery Posted February 14, 2022 Posted February 14, 2022 I've had this same deck for just over a year and have the same issue, albeit not nearly as severe as yours seems to be, I live in a fairly humid state (Georgia) and have kept the deck in it's box when not in use so maybe that has contributed to it. Weird that this has happened to some but not all of us who have the deck.
katrinka Posted February 14, 2022 Posted February 14, 2022 1 hour ago, gregory said: One thing - do NOT keep decks - linen or otherwise - in sealed plastic containers. That'll do it. Humidity -ultimately followed my MOULD I didn't know that. Lucky for me I have a natural aversion to plastic! I've had several decks come in plastic containers. I always tossed them and found something else!
gregory Posted February 14, 2022 Posted February 14, 2022 People always think it would be a good idea. But if it's airtight - any humidity in there will go after whatever else is in there - as will any spores of anything, within a sealed system. That's why so many things arrive in the post with those little sachets of silica crystals. I suppose if you could find a way to have TOTALLY DRY AIR in the box when you close it - but how are you going to achieve that ?
katrinka Posted February 15, 2022 Posted February 15, 2022 6 hours ago, gregory said: I suppose if you could find a way to have TOTALLY DRY AIR in the box when you close it - but how are you going to achieve that ? You answered yourself. 😁 6 hours ago, gregory said: those little sachets of silica crystals But, that said: plastic - ugh. FWIW, I had a Kipper get moldy edges once and it was in a crocheted cotton bag. But that was in storage - in a plastic tote.
Raggydoll Posted February 15, 2022 Posted February 15, 2022 It matters if you store a deck flat or standing up. Decks get warped if they are standing up, unless cardstock is so thick that it can take it. Linen is a finish. There are thicker and thinner cards with different types of finish. So there are multiple factors. Some decks warp no matter what you do. How it was transported will matter as well.
emilyn Posted February 15, 2022 Posted February 15, 2022 I've had this same deck for just over a year, and I do not have a big issue. I am using a sealed plastic container.
Siavahda Posted February 15, 2022 Author Posted February 15, 2022 Thank you for all the advice, everyone! I really appreciate it 🙂
katrinka Posted February 15, 2022 Posted February 15, 2022 7 hours ago, Raggydoll said: It matters if you store a deck flat or standing up. Decks get warped if they are standing up, unless cardstock is so thick that it can take it. It's weird. Decks should never be stored standing up, but vinyl records should never be stored flat. I need to think about this.
Raggydoll Posted February 15, 2022 Posted February 15, 2022 1 hour ago, katrinka said: It's weird. Decks should never be stored standing up, but vinyl records should never be stored flat. I need to think about this. And reservoir pens should either be stored flat or tip up. I’m sure there is a bigger picture to be found if we can only connect the dots…
katrinka Posted February 15, 2022 Posted February 15, 2022 13 minutes ago, Raggydoll said: And reservoir pens should either be stored flat or tip up. I’m sure there is a bigger picture to be found if we can only connect the dots… Music is for dancing, cards are for relaxing, and pens can leak?
Maxpphire Posted March 13, 2022 Posted March 13, 2022 So I have this same deck and out of the box it wasn't bowed, but it is now. I'm glad to hear it's a normal issue with the cards, but sometimes that happens usually because one side of the card expands or contracts depending on the moisture in the air and the other side of the card not following suit. Can happen to more than just linen texture cards. I like the textural feel of the cards even if I have them sleeves. I love how the linen texture in general feels so I don't mind the bowing so much.
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