Grand Tableau - Newbie query ...what if the significator card appears as an edge card?

[Chariot]

I'm new-ish to Lenormand, and just tried out the Grand Tableau for the first time, a couple of days ago.  I was just experimenting to see how to read that layout, (no specific querent or question, but I chose the Woman card as the significator.) I laid out a Grand Tableau three times.  One time the significator card appeared on the right edge of the spread.  Another time it appeared at the bottom edge of the spread.  So the significator/querent has no future (right edge)?  Or has no control whatsoever about what happens? (bottom edge?)

I found I was unable to figure out how to read this kind of result, when the significator appears as an edge card. Any advice?

[joy]

Hello @Chariot a GT does not necessarily has to be read as past/future but it can also be read as progress.

If the significator is to the far right, I would say:

- either they are invested in what ever is to the left

- the future is not yet know

 

With regards to having no control it depends on the cards around. Cross often indicates stuff that we have no influence over.

[Chariot]

9 hours ago, joy said:

Hello @Chariot a GT does not necessarily has to be read as past/future but it can also be read as progress.

If the significator is to the far right, I would say:

- either they are invested in what ever is to the left

- the future is not yet know

 

With regards to having no control it depends on the cards around. Cross often indicates stuff that we have no influence over.

Thank you, Joy!  That's the kind of information I was hoping to discover.  It's not something most books on Lenormand even mention. But when it happened to me twice in three practice readings, I thought ...yikes.  What do I do here?  

So if the significator appears on the far right edge, that means the past is more significant than the future?  So the advice would be along the lines of 'study your past to learn what might help you in future' or 'the past is heavily influencing you' or maybe even 'the past is holding you back and preventing you from moving on' ...something like that?

Along the bottom edge, it would indicate that the querent has little or no control over anything at the moment, and the near cards (depending on what house they fall into) are creating or influencing this situation.

I'd say these kinds of readings are more akin to Tarot ...getting a querent to understand how/why they are in the position they are at present, rather than forecasting the future.  Interesting....

Thank you for your insight.  I'll work with these ideas you've given me.    

[joy]

4 hours ago, Chariot said:

Thank you, Joy!  That's the kind of information I was hoping to discover.  It's not something most books on Lenormand even mention. But when it happened to me twice in three practice readings, I thought ...yikes.  What do I do here?  

 

You are very welcome, I am still learning too - well I guess it is a life long study anyway. I understand that if it happens several times it must be significant.

 

4 hours ago, Chariot said:

So if the significator appears on the far right edge, that means the past is more significant than the future?  So the advice would be along the lines of 'study your past to learn what might help you in future' or 'the past is heavily influencing you' or maybe even 'the past is holding you back and preventing you from moving on' ...something like that?

 

Yes I think that is how I would see it. Again it depends on the question and cards around. And which direction is the significator looking at? To the left or the right, out of the cards? Some people do not care which direction a person looks at but I for example do. So that might give some indications too.

 

4 hours ago, Chariot said:

Along the bottom edge, it would indicate that the querent has little or no control over anything at the moment, and the near cards (depending on what house they fall into) are creating or influencing this situation.

 

Are you referring to the 4 if you do 4x8 and then the 4 cards which are sometimes called the fate cards?

 

4 hours ago, Chariot said:

I'd say these kinds of readings are more akin to Tarot ...getting a querent to understand how/why they are in the position they are at present, rather than forecasting the future.  Interesting....

 

In that way Lenormand is similar to Tarot I would say. Lenormand can also tell you what happened in the past will influence your future the same as with Tarot. And it is as deep as Tarot but in my opinion it is more blunt. Predicting a future is always a bit difficult. Sometimes we can influence stuff and sometimes we can not. And if other people are involved they will influence the situation too. Everything is fluid and not a lot - if anything - is written in stone 😉

 

4 hours ago, Chariot said:

Thank you for your insight.  I'll work with these ideas you've given me.    

 

You are very welcome!

[Chariot]

Hi again, Joy.  I was using the 4x9 layout.  I haven't used the 4x8 layout yet.  Although I do plan to try it.

My first thought, when seeing the Significator along the right edge was "YIKES"  the Significator has no future!!!  A scary result, even though I was just experimenting with how to read a layout, and wasn't asking any specific question, nor did I identify with the Significator in this case.  But yikes.  If I WAS doing a real reading, how would I view this sort of result?  So that's why I asked.  And the notion that the past is so significant does make sense.  It might call for another reading, though ...but not another Grand Tableau!

I'm very much a Tarot person.  It's the blunt nature of the Lenormand that bothers me a little bit. There doesn't seem to be as much scope for interpretation.  While I find it kinda fun to play around with, I'm not quite at the stage where I want to trust it as much as I trust the Tarot.  However, I do want to keep trying, because it's got potential.

By the way, have you tried Kipper?  It's similar, but has different cards.  I bought the Ciro Marchetti Golden Reverie deck of Lenormand, and I like the 'extra cards.'  But then I also bought his version of Kipper (Fin De Siècle), and discovered, to my delight, that you can mix the decks together and use them simultaneously, to achieve better correctness.  For example, while the Lenormand doesn't have a specific 'work' card (okay the Fox, but that also means cleverness, etc) the Kipper deck has TWO.  One called "Toil and Labour" (work that is hard, or that you don't enjoy) and another one called "Occupation" (work or hobbies that you do enjoy and find fulfilling.)  

While it doesn't make sense to combine both decks in a Grand Tableau (unless you want to stand on a ladder and use binoculars) it is nice to combine them for any other reading, where you simply draw a few cards.  I've found the readings to be a lot more accurate using both.  (Although shuffling 86 sturdy cards at one time is a bit of a challenge!)

[joy]

Hey @Chariot I see ! Well I strongly believe if we have a querent who has no future we might not be allowed to see/know that.

Right there is not a lot of scope for interpretation but in my opinion it makes it more real. But that is just how I feel about it.

 

No have not tried Kipper but saw readings and I do agree they seem to be very interesting with the additional cards. However for me the 36 cards Lenormand has gives me enough to do 😆 There are so many ways to read the cards and you can read as deep as with Tarot.

[Chariot]

Yeah, I'm just feeling my way at the moment.  I find it relatively easy to use Lenormand to explain a current situation—because I already know what's what.  It just affirms what I already know.  However, I find it difficult to use Lenormand for prediction, because the cards (and combinations) can mean so many totally different things.  I don't get an intuitive 'feel' for them, the way I feel the tarot.  So I look at a card combination for the future—which is not something I know yet—and find the (sometimes wildly) different potential interpretations a bit ...not helpful?  I mean sometimes the meaning is fairly clear, but so often it's not—at least for me.  Especially when it comes to something I'm not expecting, or something that I'm not actually to know about yet.

It's kind of like algebra was for me.  Yes, I can understand how THAT problem got solved—once the teacher explained the process to me. But could I go ahead and solve another problem using the same process?  Nope.  I really struggled making those connections, and I feel the same level of frustration with Lenormand, at times.  At least with Lenormand I'm not getting a grade for my performance.😀

I'm hoping I'll make a breakthrough soon.  That I get one of those lightbulb AHA! moments, and it all comes together.

[joy]

Hey @Chariot I like that comparison with Algebra! And yes I do agree to sort of predict the future is not easy. Hope you will have that AHA moment still.

[Heidi]

Hi,

I have done a grand tableau and my significator was in house 24 (heart), so I thought my past is heavily influencing my future. So I left it for a bit and then came back and shuffled thoroughly and my significator came out in house 32 (moon), I reshuffled and it came out in house 32 (moon) again. That's pretty intense it coming up in the last column 3 times. And no I am not doing it again 🤣.

Apart from it meaning that my future is heavily dependent on resolving my past, does anyone else have any insight?

Heidi

[joy]

Hello @Heidi did you reshuffle three times for the same question? Just curious, as I would never do that. Either read or if I do not like to see the answer - sometimes this can happen - then I would just leave it.
Anyway without seeing the rest of the GT I would just think that the future is not yet known. Meaning you are not 'allowed' to see it.

[Heidi]

Hi Joy,

I didn't ask a question. I'd rather that the spread will tell me what I need to know in general. 

 

[joy]

Hey @Heidi right but even then, sometimes we just do not like what we see 😆But the question remains, did this happen within a short period or were you just 'playing' with the cards?

[Heidi]

It wasn't about not liking what I saw, it is what it is. It happened in a short period of time. I wasn't just 'playing' with the cards.

I've had a GT done before and the reader said that if the significator came up to close to the 'end' he'd reshuffle, so that's what I did.

[Mister]

A significator close to an edge does have it's implications, if you want it to.

That reader mentioned did not, and that is fine.

 

Such stuff grows over time.

In the very beginning, best be humorous in your approach, it'll turn down the stress-level, making it easier to proceed towards full-fledged.

[joy]

15 hours ago, Heidi said:

It wasn't about not liking what I saw, it is what it is. It happened in a short period of time. I wasn't just 'playing' with the cards.

I've had a GT done before and the reader said that if the significator came up to close to the 'end' he'd reshuffle, so that's what I did.

 

Ok I understand and heard that some readers do that. In my opinion there is a reason why the cards are laid in that order. And I never re-shuffle the cards. But that is just my opinion.

[Mister]

4 hours ago, joy said:

In my opinion there is a reason why the cards are laid in that order.

🤣

If we were to forgo that stance, we'd be done for as readers!

 

Cards at the edges are not more or less problematic than others - they are, as every other card in a GT is - part of a row and column.

If we give special meaning to something occuring at the edges, that is up to us.

For example, if a significator facing right sits in the lower right corner, one reader could come to the conclusion that said significator does not have a bearing on the matter displayed at all - while, if you go by Drosbekes Quadrants, it would occupy a corner, thereby gaining in importance.

Also, some do consider the top row as especially important, with the cards appearing there reigning over the matter, other favor a circular approach, focusing on the middle section.

A lot comes down to taste and force majeure (stuff you have to abide by whether you want it or not).

Personally, I had a brief period where I had to shuffle and deal two tableaus before arriving at the future one.

The first would invariably describe the past events, the second was present to near future, and the third one finally provided an outlook beyond a three weeks timeframe!

 

[Heidi]

3 hours ago, Mister said:

🤣

If we were to forgo that stance, we'd be done for as readers!

 

Cards at the edges are not more or less problematic than others - they are, as every other card in a GT is - part of a row and column.

If we give special meaning to something occuring at the edges, that is up to us.

For example, if a significator facing right sits in the lower right corner, one reader could come to the conclusion that said significator does not have a bearing on the matter displayed at all - while, if you go by Drosbekes Quadrants, it would occupy a corner, thereby gaining in importance.

Also, some do consider the top row as especially important, with the cards appearing there reigning over the matter, other favor a circular approach, focusing on the middle section.

A lot comes down to taste and force majeure (stuff you have to abide by whether you want it or not).

Personally, I had a brief period where I had to shuffle and deal two tableaus before arriving at the future one.

The first would invariably describe the past events, the second was present to near future, and the third one finally provided an outlook beyond a three weeks timeframe!

 

Oh wow!

I think maybe after three shuffles it still coming out where it did means there is a lot of the past still in control and I really need to deal with it. 

[Mister]

14 hours ago, Heidi said:

I think maybe after three shuffles it still coming out where it did means there is a lot of the past still in control and I really need to deal with it.

 

Go with the above - one thing to develop in order to read with confidence is guts, afterall.

Very often, a simple solution arrived at by your own mettle - confirmed or denied by reality - is way more conducive to a readers growth than endless alternatives and "What If's".