Drake_Winterfell Posted November 8, 2022 Posted November 8, 2022 Apophenia is the tendency to see connections where there are none. Like finding recognisable shapes in clouds. Is that what is happening when we read tarot cards or indeed any form of divination? Are we making meaning out of meaningless things? Do we really resonate with readings or are we making them fit or just seeing the things that fit and forgetting the things that don't? This is just something I've wondered about for a while. So I'm interested in hearing peoples perspectives on this.
FindYourSovereignty Posted November 9, 2022 Posted November 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Drake_Winterfell said: Apophenia is the tendency to see connections where there are none. Like finding recognisable shapes in clouds. Is that what is happening when we read tarot cards or indeed any form of divination? Are we making meaning out of meaningless things? Do we really resonate with readings or are we making them fit or just seeing the things that fit and forgetting the things that don't? This is just something I've wondered about for a while. So I'm interested in hearing peoples perspectives on this. I have thought about this because I’ve seen where people during a reading of some kind are making the reading fit their situation. Kind of like when my son was taught in school that ‘everyone is stressed’ so he started to find reasons he must be stressed. That said, I believe this happens when either the sitter or the reader feels a need to make or discover a connection; an attempt to find accuracy, and is not the norm. I also believe this happens most often during the learning years of a reader and fades away with experience, confidence, and getting comfortable with being wrong, or at least with not being right.
DanielJUK Posted November 9, 2022 Posted November 9, 2022 I would argue there is much more clear evidence that it's not a case of apophenia when we do blind readings for people on this forum and online. We post a reading for someone and often we don't know a thing about them. I think it's possible to unconsciously pick up on a person in person or doing 1 to 1 readings and you say oh this card means this, oh maybe that does represent your neighbour you wanted to know about! When we read blind, it's hard to do that. It's possible in the feedback that the sitter takes the reading and finds connection in their own lives but I mostly find that the reading somehow applies to me. Sometimes amazing insights comes up in a reading, I don't think it can be just down to this. The connections are normally there, not just trying to apply the reading to fit. But it's good to be a little sceptical and think about this.
Misterei Posted November 9, 2022 Posted November 9, 2022 6 hours ago, Drake_Winterfell said: Apophenia is the tendency to see connections where there are none. Like finding recognisable shapes in clouds. Is that what is happening when we read tarot cards or indeed any form of divination? I think some Apophenia is always a part of Tarot ... it's like getting a new perspective on your situation. So I think it has a place in psychological readings and self-reflection type of readings. But predictive readings are either right or wrong. Just like the weather report on the news. It either rains or it doesn't. I've made enough accurate and specific predictions to know that these are definitely not Apophenia. I don't see it as either/or. Apophenia has its place as a time-honored way of reading omens or thinking creatively about a situation that feels "stuck". But I also think it would be wrong to dismiss all Tarot --especially predictive readings-- as apophenia. As mentiond ... predictive reads don't "resonate" they're either right or wrong.
FindYourSovereignty Posted November 9, 2022 Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Misterei said: I don't see it as either/or. Apophenia has its place as a time-honored way of reading omens or thinking creatively about a situation that feels "stuck". But I also think it would be wrong to dismiss all Tarot --especially predictive readings-- as apophenia. As mentiond ... predictive reads don't "resonate" they're either right or wrong. Exactly. 11 hours ago, DanielJUK said: I think it's possible to unconsciously pick up on a person in person or doing 1 to 1 readings and you say oh this card means this, oh maybe that does represent your neighbour you wanted to know about! Yes, my experience of feeling that someone is reaching for their reading to resonate is in person where the reader and the sitter appear to be trying to tie things together. 11 hours ago, DanielJUK said: I would argue there is much more clear evidence that it's not a case of apophenia when we do blind readings for people on this forum and online. Yes, this has been my experience here. 15 hours ago, Drake_Winterfell said: Is Tarot merely Apophenia? Is that what is happening when we read tarot cards or indeed any form of divination? Are we making meaning out of meaningless things? To be clear, No, IMO, tarot or other divination are not merely apophenia and I don’t believe that is what is happening. I definitely do not feel readers are making meaning out of meaningless things. As shared in my previous post, I have felt sometimes that a reader and sitter may be trying to connect the message even if it isn’t resonating. Edited November 9, 2022 by FindYourSovereignty
Shadow Posted November 9, 2022 Posted November 9, 2022 This is a fascinating question I feel it comes from tuning into our subconscious and because of that it can sometimes feel like apohenia That's my thoughts 🙂
Grandma Posted November 10, 2022 Posted November 10, 2022 (edited) Are we making meaning out of meaningless things? Some are, and when others read enough of those readers' readings, we know who they are. Good readers see meanings that others fail to recognize. Edited November 10, 2022 by Grandma
Drake_Winterfell Posted November 17, 2022 Author Posted November 17, 2022 On 11/9/2022 at 12:37 AM, DanielJUK said: I would argue there is much more clear evidence that it's not a case of apophenia when we do blind readings for people on this forum and online. We post a reading for someone and often we don't know a thing about them. I think it's possible to unconsciously pick up on a person in person or doing 1 to 1 readings and you say oh this card means this, oh maybe that does represent your neighbour you wanted to know about! When we read blind, it's hard to do that. It's possible in the feedback that the sitter takes the reading and finds connection in their own lives but I mostly find that the reading somehow applies to me. Sometimes amazing insights comes up in a reading, I don't think it can be just down to this. The connections are normally there, not just trying to apply the reading to fit. But it's good to be a little sceptical and think about this. This is a good point. When we're doing readings on here we don't have the benefit of seeing the person. We can't make inferences based on how they're dressed or how they talk and move. I guess it just feels like apophenia sometimes because I don;t know where I get some of the information I get.
Yola Posted November 17, 2022 Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) This is a very interesting reflection. It is difficult to define exactly where in fact there are real connections and where there are not. Synchronicity, for example, is a real phenomenon. However, acausal (something that flirts with the gnoses that claim that all reality is unified and interconnected, where nothing exists in disconnection even though these links are not causal). The tarot seems to me to be heading in the same direction. It cannot be gauged and measured by logic and Cartesian thinking, where connections can be scientifically proven. The tarot dwells in the symbolic, archetypal, non-linear and subjective field. "Talent hits a target no one else can hit. Genius hits a target no one else can see". I tend to believe that apophenia is an extremely interesting cognitive resource and that, when well calibrated, it benefits tarot reading. I see tarot as a practice that essentially consists of the exercise of recognizing patterns and associating them by analogy with manifest circumstances. The weather forecast uses this same feature. And in fact, I agree with the colleague above when he says that the method and experience collaborate for this "calibration". Oswald Wirth insisted on the concept that "divination is to imagine rightly". I think of this accuracy as the ability to use this tool wisely and prudently, above all, to help people reflect and add meaning to their own paths. Does it make sense to you guys? Edited November 17, 2022 by Yola
Grandma Posted November 17, 2022 Posted November 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, Yola said: Oswald Wirth insisted on the concept that "divination is to imagine rightly". I think of this accuracy as the ability to use this tool wisely and prudently, above all, to help people reflect and add meaning to their own paths. Does it make sense to you guys? Yes!
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