Going Public? Third Party?

[BradGad]

So...

 

I've been dabbling with tarot for a while (several years), but now (and for the last month) I'm really into it. I love it. It is my passion.

 

But, heretofore, I have only read for myself. I think I am now at a point where I can -- and where I kind of *need* to -- start reading for others.

 

But, I'm scared.

 

Seems like such a big jump, and what if I screw it up? Or if nothing happens?

 

I would really appreciate any advice about making the jump from reading and playing with cards in private, to actually reading for other people.

 

Thanks gang!

[DanielJUK]

There is a nice thread here in the past about knowing when you are ready.....

 

 

 

There is a tarot section Business of Tarot that thread is in for people doing it professionally

 

I would say you should practice with others as much as possible. You can offer readings here in the Reading Exchange for feedback.

 

You can join in our Reading Circles where you read with another random forum member. They launch in the first week of every month.

 

But I would do as many free readings as possible to get experience, get feedback and comment on the readings in return.

 

[dippingin]

How about going to a Mind, body and spirit fayre or similar? These are events held every few months for a few hours.

 

[dippingin]

You can do a practice reading for me if you wish.  Although this may not be the correct section. 😀

[Tarot_Apprentice]

Thanks for raising this. I feel in somewhat the same place. I’m working on several things this year:

 

Understanding card archetype rather than meanings.

 

Becoming adept/flexible with spreads.

 

Recognizing the conversation between cards [energy flow/blockage, etc.

 

Developing narrative [story] from cards drawn.
 

With his wife, my German neighbor across the street puts on an annual  Oktoberfest extravaganza at his own expense. I’m thinking this year, I’ll ask if he’s open to someone doing tarot readings. I’d have no problem suggesting donations to the neighbor to defray the cost of the expenses.

 

Sounds like a win-win to me!

[BradGad]

Thanks everyone… I’ll try the February Reading Circle… that sounds like a low-stress way to get started reading for others. 

[Misterei]

There's a difference between simply reading for others ... like friends, family, ppl on the forum ... and going professional.

Different ethics involved, different set of concerns.

 

Which is your goal?

 

I had never read for other people except for a couple friends when I got my first job on the phone lines in 1996. But I had been reading for 15 years ... so I knew Tarot. I never wanted to read for other people. I fell into it because I needed money.  My Tarot skills got me a job when Raytheon was laying-off 500 people a week and a college degree couldn't get a job washing dishes in the town where I lived.

 

Why do you want to read for others? Who do you want to read for?

Edited January 12, 2023 by Misterei

[DanielJUK]

15 hours ago, BradGad said:

Thanks everyone… I’ll try the February Reading Circle… that sounds like a low-stress way to get started reading for others. 

 

I probably learnt the most from reading for others over months and months in circles and dealing with different situations and questions 🙂

I post the circles going on in this thread, if you check it in the first days of the month - https://www.thetarotforum.com/forums/topic/12927-monthly-circles-notification/?do=getNewComment

 

You can sign up to as many circles as you want, they all are different spreads and themes, we just ask members to follow the instructions of that month and to complete a reading and feedback with your partner, enjoy

[BradGad]

@Misterei… At this point I’m just talking about reading for others, family and friends as opposed to just me. But, really, at some point (hopefully around the middle of this year), I would like to be able to set up in the park and do free readings.

 

You ask *why* do I want to do this… which is a really good question. I do know I *want* to… that it’s not like I need a side gig, or that I won’t feel like a “real reader” until I get to that point. This is rather hard to articulate. It’s something like, I want to be “that guy”… the kind of guy who is free-spirited enough to just put himself out there, offer insight/intuition. And I guess there is something to that “real reader” thing I just dismissed, and that it would be a kind of milestone about moving into the journeyman phase. 

 

(But I definitely think reading circles here would be a good — even necessary — stepping stone.)

 

 

[Misterei]

On 1/12/2023 at 9:09 AM, BradGad said:

@Misterei… At this point I’m just talking about reading for others, family and friends as opposed to just me. But, really, at some point (hopefully around the middle of this year), I would like to be able to set up in the park and do free readings.

 

You ask *why* do I want to do this… which is a really good question. I do know I *want* to… that it’s not like I need a side gig ... This is rather hard to articulate. It’s something like, I want to be “that guy”… the kind of guy who is free-spirited enough to just put himself out there ...

I'm going to suggest to get very clear about articulating this "hard to articulate" why?

 

LOL ... take my input with a grain of salt. I NEVER wanted to read for other people and only did it for money at first. But this was many years ago and I was a younger, financially desperate person. Tarot was a job when there were no other jobs. That and Belly Dancing. I graduated college just when the local economy collapsed and fell back on dancing in Greek restaurants and doing card readings to earn a living. Go figure.

 

Still, I get HORRIFIED whenever people talk about reading for free in public. It's a lot to unpack why ... but my reasons for reading tarot for general public were openly and shamelessly selfish. I needed money. I observe some ppl (not  you) end up doing free readings for what are essentially selfish reasons ... but the selfishness is hidden behind something else. The worst being selfishness hidden behind a desire to "help people". *sigh*

 

Anyway ... I do encourage you to get very clear on things just b/c of the 1001 posts I used to see on Tarot reddit from people who were reading for free and then complaining that no one appreciated their "help" and they were getting burn-out. OTOH Jodorowsky read for free and he is a brilliant and respected person who wrote a Tarot book amongst other things. There are very different types of "reading for free".

 

Good luck ... even tho your path is quite different from mine };>

Edited January 14, 2023 by Misterei

[BradGad]

@Misterei

 

> But this was many years ago and I was a younger, financially desperate person. 

 

Wow, that's so uncanny! Many years ago, I was younger too! (Also financially desperate.)

 

> Anyway ... I do encourage you to get very clear on things just b/c of the 1001 posts I used to see on Tarot reddit from people who were reading for free and then complaining that no one appreciated their "help" and they were getting burn-out. 

 

I don't want money. (I mean, yeah, I want money... money is great... you can buy stuff with it... but not for this). I want to be someone who puts himself out into and before the universe in this format. 

 

> OTOH Jodorowsky read for free

 

Yeah, I know. And that vibes with me. I think he called it a form of prostitution. I'm thinking, I'll read for free, but have a bag on the table, and tell people that if they feel they received value, they can leave something in the bag (and please don't take anything out of it).

 

> I do encourage you to get very clear

 

I've only been on the forum for about four days and you have already given me lots of good advice. Your question, a couple days ago, about *why* do I want to do this was kind of like a grenade thrown at me. Damned good question.

 

 

[Misterei]

On 1/13/2023 at 6:53 PM, BradGad said:

... [Jadorowsky] vibes with me. I think he called it a form of prostitution ...

Removed. Off topic and TMI

Edited January 16, 2023 by Misterei
Off topic and TMI

[BradGad]

> Anyway ... I find these folks self righteously label me as "prostitute". 

 

You know (I hope, of course) that's not where I'm coming from. But I get why AJ would strike a nerve. 

 

> And, yes, there are male tarot readers and male fortune tellers ... but I think you take my point. People wouldn't be quite so quick to say "prostitution" if it were done by white men in suits. 

 

White man, as charged, but I haven't worn a suit in 20 years. I hate ties, but I feel naked if I forget to tie on my scarf each morning. It is my panache. My flair. 

 

I do take your point, I think. We should all honor the Devine Famine (I try hard), and it's a fucking <that word probably got screened out by forum> shame that we live in an insane culture that makes all that so hard while also killing the planet in the name of the volcano god of capitalism... Oh wait... sorry... I got off track. 

 

I'm still learning the ethos, the folkways and mores of the forum. 

 

> I can say if you want to do charity for people ... give them MONEY. Or Food. Or the drugs they need to keep the sick away. These "do-gooders" are selfish people hiding behind a Tarot savior complex.

 

Ummm... I want to do this for me. 

[Tarot_Apprentice]

‘Reading by rate’ does seem to be a sensitive point. I love much of Alejandro Jodorowsky’s work, although I can stand his YouTube readings because it sounds like my Psych 101 notes on Freud [PLLEEEASE — ABF!].

 

If I recall, AJ’s readings have a social aspect — read for one, you help one, read publicly and you help many [or something similar]. And in his case, I like the fact that he does these ‘social’ readings. Mind, Jodorowsky’s stature allows him to pull off stunts few others could. And he still has his critics.

 

My thinking today is that my comfort level re: charging rates reflects my own estimation of my state of preparedness to read for others at all. 
 

I don’t need to read for my bread; but Misterei’s words remind me that some do, and the availability of ‘free’ readings will pressure those who ready do need to read for their bread and butter.

 

At this point, I’m becoming comfortable with the idea of a modest charge, knowing that I’ve much to learn, and that I’ll be re-investing these earnings in more tarot books to become a more competent reader.

 

Glad you and I joined the same day, BradGrad. It’s a bit like having a TdM forum buddy. I’m seeing I can learn plenty around here! That’s why I connected.

 

Take care, everyone!

Edited January 14, 2023 by Tarot_Apprentice

[BradGad]

@Tarot_Apprentice

 

> Glad you and I joined the same day, BradGrad. It’s a bit like having a TdM forum buddy.

 

Heart-emoji-thingy.  I'll be your study buddy. TdM all the way! (Nothing against RWS/Thoth/Lenormand... bless their socks.)

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by BradGad

[Tarot_Apprentice]

22 hours ago, BradGad said:

@Tarot_Apprentice

 

> TdM all the way! (Nothing against RWS/Thoth/Lenormand... bless their socks.)

Exactly as I feel. As I see it, the power of the TdM lies in the fact that it ISN’T so obvious. If it demands more of us, it yield up correspondingly great power.

 

I started with the RWS system but switched 3 days later. I haven’t looked back since. I don’t compete with other tarot traditions, but in the TdM, I find the unified system which I need and find very satisfying at the same time.

 

Tarot_Apprentice

[Misterei]

I encourage my graduate students to charge 50% of my rates (or whatever is the going rate in their area) for 6 months with the understanding they will raise their rates to normal after that initial "student reader discount".

 

Prices are all over the board now a days. $5 readings on etsy??? I keep my prices tethered to the local metaphysical shop where I used to work. I don't want to undercut them, but if I charge too much more my local clients would not be happy.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Misterei
Off-topic / TMI

[BradGad]

@Misterei ...

 

> Also that artist fellow who made the tarot movie. Enrique Enriquez. LIKE the movie even though I think his approach to Tarot is full of sh*t. I learn from Jodorowsky and Enriquez even though I totally disagree with their philosophies.

 

In that vein, what do you think about Camelia Elias?

 

I'll be up front and say I feel I am getting something useful out of her stuff lately.

Edited January 15, 2023 by BradGad

[Misterei]

On 1/14/2023 at 8:04 PM, BradGad said:

In that vein, what do you think about Camelia Elias?

I learnt French Cross spread from Elias blog. Also another blog called the 5-card spread of Peladan (Wirth learnt it from Peladan).  I'm not enough of a fan to purchase her books ... but I respect and appreciate her commentary on French Cross spread.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Misterei

[Tarot_Apprentice]

16 minutes ago, Misterei said:

‘In that vein, what do you think about Camelia Elias?‘
 

Thanks for this. I ordered Paul Marteau’s ’Tarot de Marseille’ a few day back, and Amazon delivered it an hour ago. I’ve been thinking of ordering some of Elias’ work next. ‘Read like the Devil,’ perhaps?

 

Title recommendations, BradGrad, Misterei, or anyone?

Edited January 15, 2023 by Tarot_Apprentice
Correct syntax.

[BradGad]

I'm working through Marseille Tarot: Towards the Art of Reading and Read Like the Devil. I haven't read any of her others, so I don't know how they rank in the hierarchy, but I do feel I am getting value out of both.

 

I would say that of the two, Toward the Art of Reading would be the one to start with.

 

Justin Michael did a pretty good interview with her on YouTube... you might want to watch that first and see if she clicks for you before buying a book. I would say she takes intuitive reading a bit past what you get with Ben Dove, and is much more accessible than Enrique Enriquez (I enjoyed the documentary but am finding his book rather impenetrable). 

 

She's also quite the performer... She was a lit and culture professor before going to tarot full time. I don't know anything about her academic work, but I get the impression that she was on of those outrageous academics in the vein of Camille Paglia and Slovaj Źiźek. (Źiźek is a trip!). She brings a lot of showmanship to her stuff. I like it, but some might find that off-putting.  

 

[Misterei]

On 1/14/2023 at 8:30 PM, Tarot_Apprentice said:

Title recommendations ...?

For TdM?

I own Ben Dov book which is *the* classic imo. I also like Robert Place book which isn't specific to TdM ... but great history of the symbolism.

I got the monster book by JM David for $14 as a digital download. I fall asleep reading it ... but respect it.

 

Most of the other TdM writers strike me as too full of themselves. Jodorowsky, Elias, Enriquez et al. I respect them, I've learned from them. But not enough of a fan to buy their books.

 

But also, with 44 years experience, I'm VERY picky about books in a way that I wouldn't have been, say, 40 years ago. Sadly all these books weren't around when I was a young reader and might have wanted them.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Misterei

[BradGad]

> I own Ben Dov book which is *the* classic imo.

 

I was thinking Tarot_Apprentice was asking specifically about Elias's books. I would definitely agree with that. I don't have the depth of background that Misterei does, but I do read a lot (former academic myself).

 

The Open Reading (also published in a glossy format as The Marseille Tarot Revealed: A Complete Guide to Symbolism, Meanings & Methods) is the one tarot book I felt I had to have in paper as well as Kindle. It's my "desk book," my first reference. The glossy version has really nice larger-than-full-size pictures of the majors and courts, which I find useful for studying the cards closely. With a little coaxing, it will lie flat for referring to while you have a spread out. 

 

It's fun to collect decks and books, but really I think Ben Dove's book and deck are all one needs to quite far with TdM. 

[Misterei]

On 1/14/2023 at 8:46 PM, BradGad said:

Justin Michael did a pretty good interview with her on YouTube... 

Great interview. She respects fortune telling instead of shaming or disowning it. Amen.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Misterei

[Tarot_Apprentice]

22 hours ago, BradGad said:

>’

Tarot_Apprentice was asking specifically about Elias's books. I would definitely agree with that. I don't have the depth of background that Misterei does, but I do read a lot (former academic myself).’

Right! And I’m thinking those two of Elias will be my next two tarot books.

 

Yoav Ben-Dov’s ‘Open Reading’ and his CBD deck were my first TdM purchases.

The multiplicity of interpretations listed on p. 43 for a simple 3-card draw was, [in my admittedly fallible thinking] worth the price of the book. OK there may be a little literary license there—but I did find that extraordinarily helpful.

 

BYW — how do all these former academicians end up doing Tarot? Perhaps Elias was onto something!

 

LOL!

 

Tarot_Apprentice