Paper/Cardstock for Making Cards

[BradGad]

At this point, this is more a question about a deck project than a deck creation... but would be relevant to deck creation. 

 

I'm wanting to print out the line drawings of the CBD deck, and color and cut them myself... I want to try it with both colored pencils and watercolors. 

 

To anyone who has made cards, can you recommend a brand or grade of paper or cardstock that would be good?

 

Thanks

[gregory]

I've never tried this, but what is generally recommended is at least 300gsm card stock. I don't know where you could buy it in sheets in suitable quality, but what you could do is buy blank cards - easily available on amazon. I don't know how you'd print on them. The other - easy -option would be to have somewhere like MPC print your line drawings for you on cards and then you could colour them in.

[Raggydoll]

I have experimented with hand drawn tdM cards and I have a few suggestions 🙂

 

Cold pressed 300gsm paper is sturdy enough for shuffling (hot pressed isn’t!), but it won’t work in a printer. So I used a light table to transfer the lines. 
 

Watercolor looks very good on handmade cards, but it does mean that you risk ruining your cards if they come in contact with something wet. I have experimented with applying a thin coating of different products to protect the surface, but haven’t found anything that I would recommend.
 

You could use color that is ink based and permanent, like intense pencils. A permanent liner works well for writing titles etc. If you plan on scanning your and having them printed, then I’d go with thinner watercolor paper. Thicker paper does not scan as well and need more work digitally to fix the colors. If you scan then you can use any paint you like, it won’t matter if it’s not lightproof or permanent. But a totally handmade deck is a treat in itself!

 

 I hope that was helpful. Best of luck! 

[Mister]

This here is an addition from the budget side of life.

 

120gsm paper suffices, given the following conditions:

Linework is laser-printed + It is glued together (no, do not search for 'glued 120gsm paper', instead just glue them).

Alternatively, you can print on the 120gsm one and glue them on full-colour 160gsm paper.

The latter ones are obviously more sturdy.

Something which adds up to 240gsm in total, excluding the glue for the calculation, is most useful if you want to make something in the dimensions of a lenormand pack. It does keep the pack recognizable as one instead of looking like something which wants to be a cube.

 

If you glue two 160gsm papers together, you will have a sturdy card with good snap even in the dimensions of a classic TdM.

Concerning the colours, I have found the most ordinary colour-pencils to do a really good job.

They hold up well even without a coating.

 

Now, the coating:

I have found one which works well, but it is neither budget nor easily applicable.

You would need raw shellack (type: comet) and an alcohol of 70% (the one from the pharmacy, without the stuff which makes it inedible, as that stuff can affect your colours), in addition, get an alcohol of 40% of the same specification.

First, put two full tablespoons of shellack into a 100ml capacity glass, lockable (!). Put the 70% alc into there till half full.

Let it stand for two to three days, stir it twice a day during that period.

Once the shellack got dissolved (you'll have a nice amber liquid; looks the same, but the taste is nothing alike), you can start watering it down with the 40% alc (because 70% is mighty aggressive, it will make most colours bleed). Once the liquid got a tiny bit milky, you are ready to go.

Do test on a sperate piece of paper before applying, it does not work equally well with all colours.

However, I even made it work with aquarells on 240gsm copy-paper.

Put the cards on the heating for several hours before applying one layer of the above described solution, and back on the heater immediately.

The coating is water-resistant, not waterproof.

It will hold off coffee, given that you do not let your caffeinated cards bath in the stuff for whatever reason.

[BradGad]

> Now the coating:

 

I’ve heard that a soap solution can be good.

[Raggydoll]

If you’re using colors that aren’t water sensitive then I wouldn’t bother with a coating. As for paper, 100% cotton will be your best bet, it does make a real difference! 
 

Do note that coldpressed watercolor paper won’t be as suitable for colored pencils. They are better on a smoother paper, but those do not shuffle as well. 
 

Try different things and see what you like. It’s a fun process! 

[Mister]

Yeah.

Soap solution.

It is good to make the cards smooth and keep them from sticking together.

Doesn't count as a coating for me, needs to be a tad bit more durable for that.

Spilled whisky durable. Hiking durable. Durable durable.

The one up there does that kind of job.

 

But Hey! It really IS a fun process, so have at it.

Even the "coarse" plant-fibre paper becomes quiet smooth after some mindful-rigid shuffling and raffling.

The simple coloured pencil has another advantage when it comes to budget-cardmaking:

The painted pack shuffles like a dream!

 

Lastly, the glue-thing really does make a difference.

Even if you take a 240gsm paper (plant, cotton, silk, whathaveyou) and glue a full-colour back of 80gsm to it, it will have gone a long way towards durability and, not to be underestimated when handling the cards often: SNAP.

 

It does the trick neatly.

So much so, that the glued 320gsm (240+80) cannot be compared to a regular 320gsm paper.

Of course, if you can get some cardstock without pre-applied finish, that would be fantastic.

If you do: Do tell where the heck you found it.

[BradGad]

@Mister

 

For the glue thing, do you just lay out a sheet of paper, hit it with a spray adhesive, and lay another sheet on that?

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by BradGad

[Mister]

@BradGad

 

For the glue thing: substract the spray adhesive and use some glue like UHU. Those are working best for me.

 

Alternatively, "the white one" used for wood-modelling. Those in accordance with the D3-norm do give the better snap at the end, but the handling of them is something which might get on your nerves. It is kind of hard to apply the glue to one sheet in a whole and slap anotherone on it, I had to do it card by card with that one.

 

So I went back to the one mentioned above.

Take sheet (160gsm), aplly glue end-to-end, put the 80gsm (or whathaveyou, the one with pictures) sheet on top of it, apply weight for a day, otherwise, the cards can become corrugated.

In order to make the whole deck at once, place a sheet of backing-paper in between every glued cardsheet of yours and apply weight to the whole pile of them.

[Raggydoll]

23 hours ago, Mister said:

@BradGad

 

For the glue thing: substract the spray adhesive and use some glue like UHU. Those are working best for me.

 

Alternatively, "the white one" used for wood-modelling. Those in accordance with the D3-norm do give the better snap at the end, but the handling of them is something which might get on your nerves. It is kind of hard to apply the glue to one sheet in a whole and slap anotherone on it, I had to do it card by card with that one.

 

So I went back to the one mentioned above.

Take sheet (160gsm), aplly glue end-to-end, put the 80gsm (or whathaveyou, the one with pictures) sheet on top of it, apply weight for a day, otherwise, the cards can become corrugated.

In order to make the whole deck at once, place a sheet of backing-paper in between every glued cardsheet of yours and apply weight to the whole pile of them.

It sounds interesting 🙂 Would you mind sharing a picture of what the finished glued cards look like? I’m mainly wanting to see what the edges are like. I worry that they will separate over time. Have that not been an issue when shuffling? 

[Mister]

Hello @Raggydoll

I suppose you will well understand me declining any request for pictures concerning packs of mine own making.

Certainly, the edges would be no problem, but I don't even want to get started!

 

Now, concerning this:

1 hour ago, Raggydoll said:

What the edges are like. I worry that they will separate over time. Have that not been an issue when shuffling? 

 

Indeed, it can (does) happen.

Most of it was experienced with the first few packs.

Application of the glue to a flimsy A4 sheet so the finished cards are glued truly regular everywhere still is one unexpected challenge in the course of the making.

That the edges seperate over time after an initial makeover has not been an issue, rather, that initial makeover is.

I still have to do it every time, because some tiny speck of glue didn't glue and it was "on edge".

It helps if the sheets have irregular thickness (160/80 as opposed to 120/120, the principle weighs more the more the papers weight increases), makes it easier to widen up the edges with your fingernail to then apply - again - our beloved glue, wait some time, put the edge back to flat, dispose of glue, wait a moment, flatten edge out (with gentle strokes from the inside of the card 😉 ), wait some more, shuffle on.

 

I do spend a week on the process, then the pack is ready to rumble.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Mister

[Raggydoll]

10 minutes ago, Mister said:

Hello @Raggydoll

I suppose you will well understand me declining any request for pictures concerning packs of mine own making.

Certainly, the edges would be no problem, but I don't even want to get started!

 

Now, concerning this:

 

Indeed, it can (does) happen.

Most of it was experienced with the first few packs.

Application of the glue to a flimsy A4 sheet so the finished cards are glued truly regular everywhere still is one unexpected challenge in the course of the making.

That the edges seperate over time after an initial makeover has not been an issue, rather, that initial makeover is.

I still have to do it every time, because some tiny speck of glue didn't glue and it was "on edge".

It helps if the sheets have irregular thickness (160/80 as opposed to 120/120, the principle weighs more the more the papers weight increases), makes it easier to widen up the edges with your fingernail to then apply - again - our beloved glue, wait some time, put the edge back to flat, dispose of glue, wait a moment, flatten edge out (with gentle strokes from the inside of the card 😉 ), wait some more, shuffle on.

 

I do spend a week on the process, then the pack is ready to rumble.

Thanks 🙂 I totally understand that you don’t wish to feature your private artwork, it was just the edges I was curious about. But now that you’ve confirmed my concern, I’ll continue with my regular procedure. I do seem to remember reading about someone who managed to buy sheets of ‘raw’ cardstock from a printer. I wish I remembered the details but I sadly don’t. 

[Mister]

2 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

I do seem to remember reading about someone who managed to buy sheets of ‘raw’ cardstock from a printer. I wish I remembered the details but I sadly don’t.

 

I have talked to one printer already.

Apparently, it became harder to get in small batches.

If I get lucky, I may find one who already/still has some in stock; that would be great.

[Mister]

2 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

it was just the edges I was curious about. But now that you’ve confirmed my concern, I’ll continue with my regular procedure

 

A pleasure, and please do just so!

 

The lengthy process prior leaves one with a pretty durable deck, especially after the described coating has been applied.

With awesome durability.

Yes.

But it reeks of alcohol and glue for quiet a while, which is also something to be considered.

For sensitive noses, I presume it would be ready to use after eight weeks or so?

 

Well, no matter, the handling is ingenious.

 

And:

It has awesome durability.

[BradGad]

About separating edges… I’m mainly asking @Mister , but also thinking outloud.

 

I’ve seen reference to “Italian style” decks where the card back was created by applying a patterned sheet to the back of the card and then trimming that and folding a remainder (like a quarter inch of “extra” paper, with 90-degree cut-outs to make the corners meet) onto the front of the card. This naturally creates a border around the card. It could also be a way of preventing separation with a two-ply card created with the method Mister has been discussing. 

 

Wrapping paper could be used, but what about this? Maybe a better idea that would solve two problems (giving the card needed thickness and creating a built-in way to prevent separation). Develop a card-back pattern using a computer graphics program. Print the card face on one sheet of 160 gsm paper and the card back on another. Then, instead of simply gluing them together and trimming equally, trim the front first, then glue on a card back... which could be trimmed 1/4" larger with corner cut-outs either before or after gluing. Apply glue to the extending border paper, and fold it over to the front of the card. Then, weight and wait.

 

I realize a border that calls attention to itself, and interrupts the visual flow between cards, could work against the dynamic or open (as opposed to symbol/key-based) method of reading... the method most visibly discussed by Yoav Ben-Dove and Camelia Elias. So, not for all deck designs, and not ideal for all methods, but something to consider. 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by BradGad

[Mister]

The Japanese traditional cardmaker (the one still operating) does it the same way.

Which I only know for there was one guy who had a kickstarter running with a fortunetelling-pack made by him.

It is not for me, the edges become very sturdy and the card looses the flexibility and snap I adore.

Still, it is a very feasable way of doing it, especially when you take the easy route (patterned/coloured paper).

 

By the way, if you glue the pack card by card, the issue with the edges reduces itself to a minimum.

Especially when you work with two weights, one for the freshly glued card, one for the stack.

Freshly glued goes to stack when where is a new freshly glued one.

[BradGad]

What an adventure!

 

Really looking forward to this project. 

 

I have not only so many spreads to spread, and so many books to read and ideas to chase down, but now projects like this. 

 

I hope you’ll excuse the vulgarity, but I want to quote something from my tarot journal from yesterday: “Man, this tarot **** is a full-time job!”

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by BradGad

[Mister]

20 hours ago, BradGad said:

I have not only so many spreads to spread, and so many books to read and ideas to chase down, but now projects like this. 

 

I hope you’ll excuse the vulgarity, but I want to quote something from my tarot journal from yesterday: “Man, this tarot **** is a full-time job!”

 

It is.

Additionally, if memory serves and you want to set up shop:

Go get guinea pigs.

You need two kinds of them:

Those who come back to report what went on to densen your accuracy.

Those you see for the first time to get a feel for reading for strangers.

 

Sorry if I stuck my nose where it didn't belong, please do leave it attached.

[BradGad]

Yes, I need guinea pigs. I will do readers circles here, but I don't think that's nearly enough. 

 

 

[Mister]

It isn't.

It is a fine way to get into reading for other people (online) in a protected environment.

Guaranteed feedback is good, too.

Face-to-face is different. More so if done for a stranger.

The pressure doesn't compare, not last because you have to give the answer/s on spot.

That changes the core of spreads you employ.

Finding those you like and are highly adaptable is recommended. One door-opener element is needed.

Some will clam up but pay in advance.

Also, when in need for nutrition, your ethics on what you answer and what not dwindle.

If answering a question can get you fed, you're in.

[BradGad]

> One door-opener element is needed.

 

What do you mean by that, and would be examples?

 

(I’m really appreciating this steady stream of advice.)

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by BradGad

[Mister]

An element which allows you to deal with customers who, for the sake of it, are unable to utter their query but really want a reading.

 

Examples are here (tarot) and here (lenormand).

Those two can serve as a sort of base for a spread of your own composition.

[Raggydoll]

I forgot to mention something that I always do to my homemade decks - I dye the paper either with coffee or tea. This isn’t just for aesthetic reasons, I find that the paper fills out and seems sturdier this way. Tea gives the paper a warm feel while coffee gives an aged effect. Today I did a batch with coffee and thought I might show what it looks like, in case anyone is curious 

 

I use both coffee grounds and black coffee that I brush on the paper. I let it sit for 10-15 minutes, and then I rinse the paper clean under the tap. I make several sheets at once, so they all get a cohesive look. 
 

 

I taped the edge so you could see the difference 

 

 

I make it flat afterwards by placing it on a wooden surface, cover with a damp cloth and iron it on a high cotton setting. 
 

I use 100% cotton paper and it can be rinsed and ironed without a problem. I have never tried this with cheaper paper, I suspect it might not work as well. 

[BradGad]

> I use 100% cotton paper and it can rinsed and ironed without a problem.

 

Can you point me to a specific brand I can just go out and order?

 

[Raggydoll]

I use Arches because that is what I have at home in my art studio. Saunders makes them and I think strathmoore has an option as well. You might want to compare prices, it will vary a lot depending where you live (i am in the EU). Buying larger individual sheets are typically the most economical option. But when there is a sale, I’ll buy lots of a4 size blocks in either hot pressed or cold pressed. For this project I used cold pressed, it is sturdier and has a more structured surface. 

This is the exact one I use for most of my deck projects: 

 

 

Just beware, these do not go in a printer! You’ll have to transfer the lines either with tracing paper or with a light table. Or with the good old fashioned grid method!