Patterns, women and tarot

[gregory]

I just read this in a novel that's all about Tarot... It happens to be written by an academic who really knows her stuff, and I believe also reads, One character is suggesting that women find tarot more natural and are "better at it" (NOT getting into that bit just now) but this was interesting

 

"Women can see new patterns better than men. Think, for example, of textiles. For centuries, women have been weavers. And those women have been able to see patterns and make inferences that create beautiful things. All we’re doing is weaving together a life. Trying to see where the different threads take us."

 

Discuss. It actually feels like it makes sense - I know that most men I know aren't great at patterns... That may say more about my friends though !

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by gregory

[Rosebud]

Hmm maybe I can add some thoughts here, I read an interview few years ago regarding tarot where the reader (woman) said she charged more, even twice the amount for a male client. She said because men are harder to persuade or discuss with her, where she faced some hesitation, kinda a wall, or high criticism from her male clients. And female clients are able to understood better about their readings. Related to that, my couple counselor (woman) said to me that men particularly hard to talk when it comes about emotion, intuition, or any "watery" realm in general, because they were conditioned to. Maybe this is indeed about conditioning (also maybe about physical factor to some extent, like, period makes women more sensitive, but I believe nurture and conditioning played a bigger role). I remember in Sapiens book (or any human-history related book), it mentions that women were more included in gathering rather than hunting thus this makes them more able and adaptable to see patterns. But most likely that happned because division of task, and again this is conditioning, but at some tribe, women participate highly in hunting, so, gender role actually different from each society and also can change.

 

So I guess, it's more about the (long and gendered) societal and cultural conditioning, although of course men can break the pattern if they are willing to. Anyway I am a woman 😄

Edited February 15, 2023 by Rosebud

[akiva]

3 hours ago, gregory said:

Discuss. It actually feels like it makes sense - I know that most men I know aren't great at patterns... That may say more about my friends though !

There's an interesting natgeo article about how men and women see colour differently. Women are better at seeing colour variations and noticing close at hand static objects (berry picking). Men are better at noticing fast changing details from a distance (to avoid predators while hunting). 

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to it, but it's called "Men and women really do see things differently."

 

19 minutes ago, Rosebud said:

So I guess, it's more about the (long and gendered) societal and cultural conditioning, although of course men can break the pattern if they are willing to. Anyway I am a woman 😄

This is so true, and I believe the pattern is breaking with younger men these days. There's more room for us to express our selves in society in constructive ways (instead of as toxic masculinity). There's still a long way to go though.

I am a man, and I feel really sad that older generations were taught to suppress how they feel. There's so much healing to be had by delving into the more 'watery' realms within ourselves. 

[stephanelli]

4 hours ago, gregory said:

 

"Women can see new patterns better than men. Think, for example, of textiles. For centuries, women have been weavers. And those women have been able to see patterns and make inferences that create beautiful things. All we’re doing is weaving together a life. Trying to see where the different threads take us."

(Quoting for my convenience on mobile...)

As someone who does a lot with textiles I can relate.  Weirdly enough I did some colour work knitting samples for a commission and challenged the client (who happens to be a close friend) to spot the differences between them when choosing which he preferred.  The differences were a couple of extra stitches in one of the colours in the pattern and a loose versus a tight fabric.  He knew which he preferred (tight fabric, no extra stitches) but it took him ages to work out the stitches that were different colours.  His wife however spotted them almost immediately!

 

I think it also depends on the type of pattern.  My husband for example very quickly picks up patterns in numbers which takes me longer to get.  His brain is clued into the numbers and picking up those patterns, whereas mine is much more visual.  This is particularly interesting as we both did a science/engineering related degree so it certainly wasn't education that conditioned these differences.

 

I don't know whether it's a strict male/female divide because I know some females who don't pick up any patterns at all.  It'd be interesting to somehow test this!  Maybe someone has?

[Raggydoll]

Aside from what’s already been mentioned, I think women would have benefited evolutionary from seeing nuances in social patterns and behaviors as well. Networking has probably been more of a female task and I think similar parts of the brain are at work when we analyze visual clues in a social context vs a divinatory one. 

[Mi-Shell]

My husband is a wizard at recognizing patterns and nuances, which was/ is important for his work as a successful artist.

He also can remember them and re-collect them days and weeks later.

His dad was very good ad well, while his 2 brothers suck at it big time......

Same upbringing and genes, different outcome/ expression.

When going hunting pattern recognition is VERY important: Which speckled brown mini shapes are dead leaves on the trees that rustle in the wind and which few amount to a deer and what body part of that are you seeing and is it male or female, so can you shoot it or not.

 

Peter and reading the cards however is a lost cause:

He did not learn it from very young on, like me

He KNOWS and remembers the meanings of each card but applying the pattern to a social situation with a client...?It's just root learned meanings and not the deep flowing intuition and vision that the client needs.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Mi-Shell

[Bodhiseed]

This is from Mary K. Greer's blog:

https://marykgreer.com/2008/03/23/psychic-awareness-or-intuition/

"Intuition, on the other hand, is the completely normal functioning of human cognition. It is part of a bodily survival mechanism. It has been called gut feeling, a hunch, instinct or insight. It involves intelligence at work without conscious thought. Essentially it is the act or process of coming to direct knowledge without reasoning or inferring. With intuition we sense truth without explanations. Using unconscious forms of analogy and induction we instantly perceive connections and patterns. This sometimes results in a clear direction for action."

"Intuition can arise during a tarot reading in countless ways. One of these is when symbols in several cards suddenly seem to come forward and link together to reveal a repeating or developing theme. Everything else can appear to recede in the face of the insistence and aliveness of these symbols."

 

If intuition is a nearly instant recognition of patterns, and women can more easily do this, I can see why tarot reading might be easier for them. But it does make sense that artists, regardless of gender, might be good at pattern recognition too.

 

[Misterei]

12 hours ago, Raggydoll said:

... women would have benefited evolutionary from seeing nuances in social patterns and behaviors as well. Networking has probably been more of a female task and I think similar parts of the brain are at work when we analyze visual clues in a social context vs a divinatory one. 

I recently saw a YT about male and female competition. Según this movie, men are actually MUCH better at cooperating in hierarchical groups (this helps them win wars or sports), Men make teams and fight the enemy. whereas females don't do so well in hierarchical groups and often fight each other through social status and reputational warfare rather than violence.

What has this to do with Tarot?

Prolly nothing ... but women are perhaps more attuned the shifting nuances of human relationships in a way that men never had to be.

Intuition?

I think this is a HUMAN thing.  I'm the "psychic" one ... yet just today my SO asked did my bike have enough charge to go where I was planning to go. I had just charged it. I was sure it was charged. But it wasn't. Battery was drained. That was pure intuition on his part. I trust his instincts and hunches. He'll never be a card reader ... but he's quite intuitive.

I loved the comment about the rugs and pattern recognition.

18 hours ago, gregory said:

... For centuries, women have been weavers ... women have been able to see patterns and make inferences that create beautiful things.

I think this is true for color sensitivity and symbolism. Historically men were building boats, or buildings, or weapons. Will a weaver make a better tarot reader than a boat builder? Maybe. Maybe not. Certainly Tarot is the realm of "the gals, the gays, and the theys" in our society. But it might be a pretty complex mixture of factors.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Misterei

[catlover5201314]

this totally makes sense to me .. i think it mainly has to do with societal expectations and upbringing , most of us women were raised in an environment where we were taught that its okay to be in tune with your emotions , i´m not going to write a whole essay on why seeing men who delve into spirituality is less common, but i personally think its not as easy for them since i believe with spirituality u have to be okay with being vulnerable and allow urself to feel emotions (not appropriate based on societal norms) .. i think it relates to tarot bc if i am not able to identify and understand a feeling then how am i going to interpret the energy of the card + in which sense is it trying to speak to me , specially when it comes to reading for others 

 

now for the pattern part i also find that women have a way better understanding of reading between the lines which helps pick up patterns in these type of fields 

[Misterei]

7 hours ago, catlover5201314 said:

... now for the pattern part i also find that women have a way better understanding of reading between the lines which helps pick up patterns in these type of fields 

Honestly I think it comes down to some fundamental, indefinable difference.

MEN who are good a seeing patterns in cards ... play card games or gamble with them.

WOMEN who are good at seeing patterns in cards become Tarot readers };>

[debs]

On 2/19/2023 at 3:55 AM, Misterei said:

Honestly I think it comes down to some fundamental, indefinable difference.

MEN who are good a seeing patterns in cards ... play card games or gamble with them.

WOMEN who are good at seeing patterns in cards become Tarot readers };>

 

Brilliant 😅 Misterei.

 

This thread made me think about my son, he's 8 and his teacher thinks he's very likely dyslexic.

I've been reading a book about how people with dyslexia see things differently and that we need more people like this and how jobs in the future will be more suited to people who think 'outside the box', especially as more and more traditional manual jobs are taken over by technology.

I wonder if the men who read tarot are also more likely to be dyslexic etc?

Just a random thought I had after reading this thead.

[Misterei]

9 hours ago, debs said:

This thread made me think about my son, he's 8 and his teacher thinks he's very likely dyslexic.

I've been reading a book about how people with dyslexia see things differently ... I wonder if the men who read tarot are also more likely to be dyslexic etc?

I dunno about that ... but I wonder if learning to "read" cards might be a fun thing for a kid who's dyslexic and maybe struggling to read "words". Like playing cards are the same upside down or rightside up. Tarots are a bit different ... but either might be a great learning tool.