Playing cards vs tarot

[fire cat pickles]

1 hour ago, Mister said:

Wow.

They'd pull you to the gallows?

No they'd burn a cross in my yard. (I wish this were a joke.)

[Mister]

1 hour ago, fire cat pickles said:

No they'd burn a cross in my yard. (I wish this were a joke.)

Crap.

Those guys ain't fun and mean business.

 

I feel for you (believe it or not).

[Misterei]

On another note ... I have a couple of decks where the Minors are playing cards. Only the Majors are obvious Tarot. (I'm looking at my Keymaster Tarot). The company also publishes a regular deck of playing cards called Keymaster.

 

I've read Russian style playing cards for divination. Perfectly accurate. But I miss the Majors and Queens.

I don't think I would enjoy the plain US style playing cards for cartomancy. Too boring.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Misterei

[BradGad]

TdM guy sounding off here…

 

I like TdM because it gives me more “discretion” when interpreting minors… especially the 2-10 cards. (I think this is what the OP was going for.)

 

In the minors, Smith’s images can railroad an interpretation. It’s hard to get past hard-hitting pictures like in the 3 and 10 of Swords. If you use a pip deck, or playing cards, you can keep that RWS imagery in mind, but it is at your discretion as the reader whether or not to bring that into the reading. 

 

How did we get into “vs” and public reading? Page of Forum’s question was about whether non-representaional decks (such as playing cards, such as a pip deck) give the reader more discretion.

 

[akiva]

23 minutes ago, BradGad said:

How did we get into “vs” and public reading? Page of Forum’s question was about whether non-representaional decks (such as playing cards, such as a pip deck) give the reader more discretion.

 

Vs is in the title of the thread "playing cards vs tarot" and public reading because playing cards are more discrete than tarot when reading in public places, like on trains as in the original post 😊

 

59 minutes ago, Misterei said:

I've read Russian style playing cards for divination. Perfectly accurate. But I miss the Majors and Queens.

I don't think I would enjoy the plain US style playing cards for cartomancy. Too boring.

Do you read in a russian style/method? Or just with russian cards (like the ones with black backgrounds)? They are definitely more ornate!

[Grandma]

1 hour ago, BradGad said:

How did we get into “vs” and public reading? Page of Forum’s question was about whether non-representaional decks (such as playing cards, such as a pip deck) give the reader more discretion.

It turned out that the OP meant which were more discreet and then there was a whole lot of misspelling which did not entirely stop even after @gregory pointed it out. So people actually are talking about the relative need to be discreet - use discretion - when reading in public places.

 

But that is not why I am here. I was going to post. Being just in time to catch @BradGad up is merely serendipitous.

 

What I wanted to say is that in southern New England, USA its okay to read anywhere I go. I suppose there are conservative enclaves where people might be suspicious, but in general it's not a problem. I get a lot of friendly interest but so far never any criticism.

[Mister]

By now I do get the impression that

 

"A List of Countries and their Safety-Level concerning Reading in Public"

 

might not only be a fun thing to assemble, but actually quiet useful for some.

 

Then again, it might really be only me getting that impression, so I'll hold off for now.

[Blondewitch]

Guys I live in Greece but I understand perfectly the members saying that in Germany or UK nobody cares if you put tarot cards on the table and start reading

 

[gregory]

It would be tricky - from my Canadian home I could go 12k in one direction and horrify people; 12k in the other and they'd be crowding around and interested.

[akiva]

Are people bothered by divination in Greece? I thought it was customary to read coffee grounds there. Or is it a regional thing, like a lot of other places? 😊

[akiva]

@BradGad my phone auto corrected "discreet" into "discrete". Sorry if I added to the confusion. 

[FindYourSovereignty]

Where I am located could go either way, leaning more, IMO, towards unwelcome, and definitely is influenced further by the establishment. I’ve done a reading in a quiet town’s local pizza and beer joint no problem, a busier area’s local breakfast spot and the owner was buying her first deck and curious, but most local bakery coffee shops in my hometown would probably ask me to leave even though I am there multiple times a week. 
 

Edit: playing cards may appear more welcome, but I don’t necessarily think so - it is obvious if I am playing a game or using the cards for some form of divination. It isn’t the cards persay, but how they are being used. At least that is my feeling here.

Edited February 18, 2023 by FindYourSovereignty

[DanielJUK]

 @Blondewitch no need to start a new thread for your reply. I have merged the new thread into this one. We can keep a discussion topic going in one thread 🙂 . Keeps the forum more organised

 

Let's keep this discussion on topic, this was @Blondewitch's original thread starter....

 

On 2/17/2023 at 8:10 AM, Blondewitch said:

In my opinion you can have more discretion when you read playing cards but the level of accuracy is inferior to tarot 

 

meaning being more discreet rather than discretion.

 

Why would a reader use playing cards over tarot cards or the other way around?

[Misterei]

18 hours ago, Blondewitch said:

Guys I live in Greece ...

Y'asou @Blondewitch. So, if everyone asks if you are a witch ... what will happen if you say "yes"?

 

@akiiva I think you asked about reading Russian playing cards? I don't know any traditional Russian style of reading ... I just do my thing ... but I DO like the ornate artwork and the heavy black, red, gold color scheme. The cards feel more magical for cartomancy. Is there a traditional Russian method for reading playing cards? Curious now that you mention it.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Misterei

[Guest]

Personally, I find that I can read playing cards better than most "traditional" Tarot decks. That's why the deck I'm designing now is based off a 54 card poker deck rather than the Tarot. But that is ME personally and not everyone. That being said, I do own a couple of more traditional decks. My pride and joy is my Masonic Tarot Deck by Jean Beauchard. However, that deck is out of print and sells for insane prices online so it doesn't come out of the box often.

[Grandma]

Hi @ThatOneGuy. Welcome to TT&M. (ATT&T, @gregory?) 

 

I just took a look at the Masonic Tarot Deck for the first time. Thank you for mentioning it. I see why it is special to you.

 

And not to be pedantic but I am a Grandma who is nostalgic for checking homework for children and grandchildren. I imagine this is a typo but aren't there 52 cards in a poker deck?

Edited February 20, 2023 by Grandma

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Grandma said:

 

And not to be pedantic but I am a Grandma who is nostalgic for checking homework for children and grandchildren. I imagine this is a typo but aren't there 52 cards in a poker deck?

There are 52 regular cards and 2 Jokers. Can't forget the Fool! 😉

[Grandma]

Yet I did, and twice at that!

[Blondewitch]

On 2/19/2023 at 3:26 AM, Misterei said:

Y'asou @Blondewitch. So, if everyone asks if you are a witch ... what will happen if you say "yes"?

 

@akiiva I think you asked about reading Russian playing cards? I don't know any traditional Russian style of reading ... I just do my thing ... but I DO like the ornate artwork and the heavy black, red, gold color scheme. The cards feel more magical for cartomancy. Is there a traditional Russian method for reading playing cards? Curious now that you mention it.

@misterei 

i will answer you yes I am😊😎

[akiva]

On 2/19/2023 at 2:26 AM, Misterei said:

@akiiva I think you asked about reading Russian playing cards? I don't know any traditional Russian style of reading ... I just do my thing ... but I DO like the ornate artwork and the heavy black, red, gold color scheme. The cards feel more magical for cartomancy. Is there a traditional Russian method for reading playing cards? Curious now that you mention it.

I've seen the russian ornate decks about but never without a king, queen and jack! 😯 Their designs are far better than ours, also black backgrounds are amazing. I have some russian solitaire style decks of square cards, and one of them has a black background. All the images pop!

 

Yes there is a specific russian style of cartomancy. It uses a deck of 36 (6, 7, 8, 9, 10, K, Q, J, A). I recently found a russian forum that details it. Though it's difficult to translate through google. Hearts or diamonds become tambourines 😂😅 but the gist is there. It's on my to do list to check out and read with!

 

To bring it back on topic, regarding the above: I've found that reduced playing card decks can often give very precise readings. Their downfall is the sheer amount of court cards you can get in a reading and the jedi mind tricks needed to workout who is who, and who is what. The lack of english resources doesn't help. Or the fact that english resources are so old and dated. Often not very helpful either.

It's a wonderful and varied system (despite of my complaints) that needs way more people trying it out so it becomes more modern and accessible. 😊

 

In a "vs" scenario, tarot or a full deck of 52 cards would always win in my opinion (even though I love the piquet deck). Tarot is accessible, easier to read, and requires less mental gymnastics. 

 

I've always wanted to reduce the pip cards down in a tarot deck and read that with the majors 😁 much like the bolognese.

Edited February 20, 2023 by akiva

[Mister]

1 hour ago, akiva said:

In a "vs" scenario, tarot or a full deck of 52 cards would always win in my opinion (even though I love the piquet deck). Tarot is accessible, easier to read, and requires less mental gymnastics.

 

Nice.

So then, I will go support the other side 😉

 

I'd prefer a piquet ("Skat" here, you get them nearly anywhere in germany) over an unmodded tarot any day.

Poker decks, anything the like - just cut them down to size.

Over time, handling them became natural, so no going jedi required.

Which might be "cultural"? As it appeas to me, where they play poker, they use poker - where they play skat, they use skat.

😎

Edited February 20, 2023 by Mister

[akiva]

41 minutes ago, Mister said:

I'd prefer a piquet ("Skat" here, you get them nearly anywhere in germany) over an unmodded tarot any day.

Poker decks, anything the like - just cut them down to size.

Over time, handling them became natural, so no going jedi required.

Which might be "cultural"? As it appeas to me, where they play poker, they use poker - where they play skat, they use skat.

😎

Ah, it's definitely a culture thing. For you it is accessible to learn how to use them. I've had to piece things together from old books that aren't the best at explaining how things work.

It seems to of died out here in the UK, at least from a divination point of view, so there's not a lot of modern sources to learn from. 

 

Skat cards have always interested me but I've never been able to find a resource to learn them, do you have any recommendations for websites or books? 😊

 

Also, what is it about the piquet/skat you prefer over tarot? 

[Mister]

7 hours ago, akiva said:

Skat cards have always interested me but I've never been able to find a resource to learn them, do you have any recommendations for websites or books? 😊

 

There is this. Pretty original, if you ask me.

Minetta, obviously, which is interesting.

A lot of recent german books basically "do the lenormand", meaning they squeeze the meanings of the 36 into the 32.

For example, female person and male person go to queen and king of hearts respectively, "changes" to ace of piques, "the house" to ace of hearts, the 6's are somewhat superimposed onto the 7's, with a splash of originality here or there, most likely hailing from the authors themselves and/or their respective grandma's.

Dmitry Korolev's russian 36-card method had an impact on me, because of the "8's are words, tender ones of love, practical ones of business, word which hurt and words which have nothing behind them"-stuff.

(8's are places for me, though 😉 )

Somehow, all of what I've read, heard and done myself went into the cauldron otherwise referred to as "the brain" and came out of it as something quiet edible, and so, I use that, prefering 'organically grown myself' over "some system".

 

On that note, capherus (the 'art of cartomancy'-website guy) once responded to the question "Which is the best cartomantic system?" with "The one you made yourself."

So have at it!

 

7 hours ago, akiva said:

Also, what is it about the piquet/skat you prefer over tarot?

Childhood memories.

I used to look at them and made up stories in my mind, ignorant of anything like 'reading the future'.

With knights and princesses, and treasures and - of course - them bandits.

Hence, I feel right at home with them, there is a sort of warmth present.

[akiva]

36 minutes ago, Mister said:

 

There is this. Pretty original, if you ask me.

Minetta, obviously, which is interesting.

A lot of recent german books basically "do the lenormand", meaning they squeeze the meanings of the 36 into the 32. 

Thanks for the link 😊 it is much appreciated! I've read minetta's books, and a lot of others. 😂 To be honest the one book that got me into piquet was carlton cases/Mohammed Ali's book. Though they add a ton of meanings to the cards and that over complicates it. I may need to thin it out and get back to something simple/enjoyable.

That's interesting about the lenormand being superimposed considering piquet is what helped make lenormand.

1 hour ago, Mister said:

 Dmitry Korolev's russian 36-card method had an impact on me, because of the "8's are words, tender ones of love, practical ones of business, word which hurt and words which have nothing behind them"-stuff.

I believe I found Dimitry's method a while back before he took it off youtube. I did find a Russian forum with a 36 card method that is like his (from memory) like the 6s being paths. It's a great method from what I've seen. He also got me into using the star spread.

Love that you're brave enough to build your own organic self grown cartomancy system. I think I need to follow suit!

1 hour ago, Mister said:

Childhood memories.

I used to look at them and made up stories in my mind, ignorant of anything like 'reading the future'.

With knights and princesses, and treasures and - of course - them bandits.

Hence, I feel right at home with them, there is a sort of warmth present.

Totally get why you favour them over tarot now. Thank you for sharing that, it's wonderful that you have such a nostalgic connection to them 😊

[Misterei]

12 hours ago, akiva said:

I've seen the russian ornate decks about but never without a king, queen and jack! 😯 Their designs are far better than ours, also black backgrounds are amazing. I have some russian solitaire style decks of square cards, and one of them has a black background. All the images pop!

@akiva  My Russian cards have King Queen Jack ... only Page is missing if you're used to Tarot. I think I made a typo. Now you got me curious about the square decks, though.

12 hours ago, akiva said:

Yes there is a specific russian style of cartomancy. It uses a deck of 36 (6, 7, 8, 9, 10, K, Q, J, A).

As I've been reading this thread between you and @Mister  I HAVE seen this Russian method with 36 cards ... but at this point ... Tarot and Lenormand and Pasyans cards are it for me. My brain won't hold anymore };> And I barely know LeNormand and Pasyans at that!

12 hours ago, akiva said:

To bring it back on topic, regarding the above: I've found that reduced playing card decks can often give very precise readings. Their downfall is the sheer amount of court cards you can get in a reading ... I've always wanted to reduce the pip cards down in a tarot deck and read that with the majors 😁 much like the bolognese.

How Funny. I recently bought a Tarocchini deck from Amazon ... LOVE the Bolognese style ... but when I saw the 2s,3s,4s, 5s were "missing" ... I returned it. (Yes, I felt stupid but Lo Scarabeo sells so many TAROCCHI and TAROT decks ...  I didn't realize it only had 62 cars). You would like that deck ... but I just can't read without all my numbers };>