Empress as a 3rd party Woman

[elsol]

Does anyone else have insight on the empress representing a 3rd party woman that a man is prioritizing? This has come up the case several times in both personal and reading for clients which turned out to be true (though sometimes she turns out to be a mom for a man who puts his mom before all other women) but why must I have such a negative association to love in the tarot- why would she be bad for feelings readings? For guidance in love I see it as good as imo she represents self care, self love, connection with your divine feminine, beautifying your space and life...but such a ugly meaning of at times betrayal in choosing another woman to detriment of 1 woman when it comes to 2 partners??? Does interpretations (however accurate) of individual cards relate to our own relationship with ourself? I feel empress should represent something fully good but I've found it not to be atleast for me...I suppose it makes sense in one way; she's the #3 and a divine feminine (so could be translated to a 3rd party woman put on a pedastle) but what's your experience in love readings (where you found out the truth after.) I want a better association with this card when she pops up in 1 on 1  connections.

 

[Raggydoll]

Context matters. I don’t really view her as a mistress as such, she’s a ruler and has power; she can be a mother and a matriarch, but the surrounding cards will show the context. Yes she can represent femininity and a love for the finer things, and if she’s a man’s most prioritized woman then yeah, she could technically be a mistress with lots of influential power. However, I can’t remember having had her represent that in any of my own readings.
 

I believe that our decks may end up communicating with us in a way that makes sense to us, so if you have certain notions that you associate with the empress then it is possible that she will represent such circumstances in your readings. 

[elsol]

Thanks for responding, I wish I didn't view her as a mistress since my first thoughts were she represented divine femininity, the mother, a beautiful woman inside and out in how he sees the woman in question-but in my experience I misread these feelings for the man in question and found out she really meant 3rd party and I was overly positive about this card coming now-now she consistently comes up as 3rd party woman taking priority in readings for others and wish she wouldn't. I want to have a better relationship with this card. This is rider waite btw! She has been confirmed (by myself and clients) to represent this when reading a man's feelings for a woman showing up by herself and besides the emperor even (when the 3rd party woman is one he ended up marrying/having kids with leaving the other woman behind.) I guess I'm sharing I wish I could change my own association with them because I feel this subconscious association with empress stems from my lack of connection with divine feminine receptivity and self love or worthiness.

[DanielJUK]

I've moved this discussion to Individual Card Meanings and slightly changed the title to reflect the discussion.

[November]

Hi @elsol, it always depends on the context.. For me The Empress generally refers to the need to love yourself before loving anyone else, you and your happiness always come first. However, it can also be about physical health and thus the body, so I can see how it may represent, in your case, a man finding another woman's body sensual. 

 

[DanielJUK]

In some of Waite's writings, he said of this card....

 

"Fruitfulness, action, initiative, length of days; the unknown, clandestine; also difficulty, doubt, ignorance. Reversed: Light, truth, the unraveling of involved matters, public rejoicings; according to another reading, vacillation"

 

I think it's interesting there are a negative interpretation here of clandestine and not knowing about some things in the words.

 

For me, if you look at this beautiful Empress, she sits on a throne, has a sceptre and a crown of 12 stars in RWS cards. She is dominant! She might have Venus on her the shield and be all about love, nurturing and being motherly but she thinks she has a high role and power with the things she has in the card image. She dominates other people's emotional needs, so she comes first over maybe a wife or girlfriend or others. I personally believe all cards can have a negative or positive, none of them are 100% one way, they are more nuanced in how they appear in different readings. An extreme case of The Empress manifesting in a negative way might be someone who is very needy and needs emotional attention, even if she is very nurturing and caring of others. I think another negative take is when someone is too Motherly and suffocating. Manifesting the energy in this way means there is an imbalance of nurturing and emotional attention, the 3rd party has a dependent relationship with the other and might be dominating. There is a scale of this obviously, like an chronically sick elderly Mother will of course dominate their attention but also some people may put themselves in this situation to try to be the most important person in their life.

 

 

[akiva]

17 minutes ago, DanielJUK said:

In some of Waite's writings, he said of this card....

 

"Fruitfulness, action, initiative, length of days; the unknown, clandestine; also difficulty, doubt, ignorance. Reversed: Light, truth, the unraveling of involved matters, public rejoicings; according to another reading, vacillation"

 

I think it's interesting there are a negative interpretation here of clandestine and not knowing about some things in the words.

I wonder if he put those opposing ideas into the meanings because of the way the GD read elemental dignity? I don't think Waite uses ED in his book iirc but it could be that it's left over from that?

 

It's almost like her actions or initiatives are out in the open for all to see when positively aspected, but with negative cards or maybe a negative context/question her actions become more secretive and closed off?

[Chariot]

On 12/8/2023 at 12:11 PM, DanielJUK said:

In some of Waite's writings, he said of this card....

 

"Fruitfulness, action, initiative, length of days; the unknown, clandestine; also difficulty, doubt, ignorance. Reversed: Light, truth, the unraveling of involved matters, public rejoicings; according to another reading, vacillation"

 

I think it's interesting there are a negative interpretation here of clandestine and not knowing about some things in the words.

 

For me, if you look at this beautiful Empress, she sits on a throne, has a sceptre and a crown of 12 stars in RWS cards. She is dominant! She might have Venus on her the shield and be all about love, nurturing and being motherly but she thinks she has a high role and power with the things she has in the card image. She dominates other people's emotional needs, so she comes first over maybe a wife or girlfriend or others. I personally believe all cards can have a negative or positive, none of them are 100% one way, they are more nuanced in how they appear in different readings. An extreme case of The Empress manifesting in a negative way might be someone who is very needy and needs emotional attention, even if she is very nurturing and caring of others. I think another negative take is when someone is too Motherly and suffocating. Manifesting the energy in this way means there is an imbalance of nurturing and emotional attention, the 3rd party has a dependent relationship with the other and might be dominating. There is a scale of this obviously, like an chronically sick elderly Mother will of course dominate their attention but also some people may put themselves in this situation to try to be the most important person in their life.

 

 

I know all cards, especially the Major Arcana cards—even the positive cards—can have a negative connotation, if their characteristics are carried to extremes.  I do find an undesirable, overbearing characteristic pops up for me a lot with the Empress.

 

I so often associate her with 'smothering.'  She's not a dominant 'my way or the highway' sort of character—like an out-of-control Emperor—but she can be equally difficult to deal with.  Helicoptering, Mother-Knows-Best, here, I'll do that for you ...yikes.

The  Empress card from the Anna K Tarot kind of sums up my feeling....

Edited December 9, 2023 by Chariot

[Misterei]

To me she's almost always mother or maternal in relationship/family readings.

Thus a man who's a mama's boy and this makes it difficult for his wife/lover.

On overbearing mother-in-law.

A man/woman who's ex wife is the mother of their kids ... so she's very much still in the picture.

 

I don't get her just showing-up when there are 2 love interests. For me that's usually 2 queens.

 

In business or health her negative side is too much of a good thing. Over eating. Over spending. Over indulging.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Misterei

[Zig]

The Empress and the Queen of Pentacles are closely associated in how they pop up for me, almost always representing actual people, with the Empress representing the dominant female in a collection of people (not in the Shades of Gray sense) but culturally I find the eldest female often represents the most respected head of the house. (It could be someone powerful in the circle who isn't the eldest.) The Queen of Pentacles, whom I mention for comparison and contrast, typically also represents an actual person who likewise has a power position, but not so revered--like maybe the head of the neighbor's house who nevertheless has influence.

 

I think we should be pleased the cards are teaching us their language in whatever way they choose to do, so if The Empress comes up for you as "the other woman" or the overbearing clinging mother, I'd say, go with it until it changes. Having the cards work effectively and knowing what they are saying is too wonderful to mess with. In the back of my mind with this card, however, is The Empress's cosmic position as the Mother of the Universe, capturing the chaotic initial energy of creation and directing it into form. The Maternal Creative.

 

@elsol

 

[Sar]

The Empress is the Boss Lady, to put it in the modern way.