Five of swords meanings

[Siri5]

Hi all. I’m new do I’m hoping I’m doing this right. 
 

I’ve been thinking about the five of swords recently, which I find quite a complex card, and I’d be interested in the thoughts of others. 
 

im using a deck that is based on the Rider Waite deck so I do read the images as well as the meanings generally attributed, and this card fascinates me. 
 

ice had it come up a few times recently, always in situations that weren’t negative as such, often in otherwise positive readings. I don’t think it’s a positive card as such but I often don’t buy into the straightforward negative interpretations either. To me the card suggests a certain helplessness and obviously a kind of defeat. It feels like ‘someone else is holding all the power’ so there seems some pain here, but not necessarily anger or aggression. It suggests, to me, a power imbalance, like when someone feels they are not bringing to the table what the other person is. This may or may not be how the other person perceives this (they may not think about it that way - or they may) but it’s how the querend feels. 
 

what do others think? I tend to try and follow my hunches with the cards, and I think it’s contextual too, so this meaning wouldn’t apply everywhere, but interested to hear if anyone else would read the card similarly or not. 😊

[Siri5]

Sorry for the typos, typing on my phone and didn’t spot them in time 🙄

[DanielJUK]

You can still edit if you need, the menu is on the dots on the right of the post. You can edit up to an hour after posting (subscribers get unlimited editing) but we can understand what you are saying, so don't worry 🙂

[DanielJUK]

Now you are at 5 posts @Siri5 and can access the area, I've moved your thread to the Individual Cards section which is the right place for this discussion 🙂

[November]

Hello @Siri5, I agree this is a difficult card to understand, especially because it has many nuances of meaning. This is what the 5 of Swords has generally meant for me over the years:

 

It can refer to the concept of "empty victory": you won the war, but what was the price? 

 

You may got this card in the context of bullying too: the guy with the swords is the bully, so the other ones are the victims, so in this case you feel a sense of defeat. 

 

Another take could be "it's better to walk away than to remain", this can be true in break ups for example, although the separation won't be painless. 

 

Finally another possibility could be "the ends justify the means". 

 

 

[Siri5]

54 minutes ago, November said:

Hello @Siri5, I agree this is a difficult card to understand, especially because it has many nuances of meaning. This is what the 5 of Swords has generally meant for me over the years:

 

It can refer to the concept of "empty victory": you won the war, but what was the price? 

 

You may got this card in the context of bullying too: the guy with the swords is the bully, so the other ones are the victims, so in this case you feel a sense of defeat. 

 

Another take could be "it's better to walk away than to remain", this can be true in break ups for example, although the separation won't be painless. 

 

Finally another possibility could be "the ends justify the means". 

 

 

It is such an interesting and difficult card, isn't it. I agree, all the meanings that you mention are there, and in the past I've had spreads that had a much more obvious energy of struggle and defeat, of 'there is no point, the battle is lost' or 'no matter what I do or what's going to happen, it's not going to feel like a victory'. The card has a 'can't win' or 'there is no winning this' vibe that I associate with that helpless and hopeless feeling that the card gives me. 

 

I think what throws me a bit with it in the readings I've done recently is that these are readings about situations or connections where there is no obvious battle or struggle, no disharmony as such, certainly no bullying or hostility or even one-up-manship. All I can imagine is that one party simply doesn't quite feel they can match the other, that they feel the other party holds all the advantage in some way, even if they are not using it, or even wishing to use it for anything bad, and that the person doesn't know how to balance that out and fix it. 

[DanielJUK]

I always like to think of the numerology order of the cards. As the minor cards go up, you have some stability with the 4's, there is a structure and some results of the cards leading up to this so far. But the 5's are an obstacle in the development of the cards leading up to 10 (completion). This is instability after the initial success and stability. It's a challenge or obstacle number in this position but it means you have to be strong when this brings fear and you have to become more flexible to deal with what happens. All the minor 5 cards are difficult in their suit because it's a challenge right in the middle of the minors line-up. It shows that are paths ahead are not smooth, there are obstacles and challenges and change is constantly ongoing. If you read reversals, they are also more positive when reversed usually. For example this reversed card shows being open to change and letting go of conflicts in the past. Whereas upright there is fighting against changing anything.

 

I often work with this card by thinking which person represents the Querent in the reading with the card. This depends of course on the card art. The basic idea here is about conflict with your options and thoughts. Taking the RWS card image as an example, these people haven't literally fought with swords, they have argued / debated / fought with their discussions and debates and some people have lost and some people have worn. Perhaps friends meet up for dinner and then start discussing politics, one of them thinks he had "owned" the debate but ultimately, they all had a miserable time of arguing and there are no real winners. Or maybe they all play a board game together and one of them cheats to win! In the RWS image, this guy at the front is smirking and holds all the swords, he holds all the power now and has "won" and conquered, the 2 in the background look upset and are "defeated". This person is the proud winner but actually hasn't won anything, because he has lost the respect of his friends behind. This conflict has destroyed them all. This card is being careful what battles you fight and what arguments and discussions you have. Like if you are meeting friends, should you really discuss politics, if you have differences of opinion? Ultimately, this card represents ambition which goes negative, they have all ended up defeated. By being careful about the battles and arguments you fight, you can have a more peaceful existence. Sometimes having close relationships or bonding with friends means you have to becareful what you are getting in to, let it go and don't go there! I think with this card about other people, you might get rejected or hurt but you need to change approaches perhaps.

 

In my own life, I decided a few years ago to no longer get in fights and arguments on social media. I used to be the queen of debating people on issues and would not let it go! However it was time-consuming and at times stressful. Why waste your time and energy on someone you don't even know? Walking away is so much healthier, they don't deserve to take up my time in the day and I can move on and spend more time on other stuff. So that is how it manifested for me 🙂 .

[Siri5]

55 minutes ago, DanielJUK said:

I always like to think of the numerology order of the cards. As the minor cards go up, you have some stability with the 4's, there is a structure and some results of the cards leading up to this so far. But the 5's are an obstacle in the development of the cards leading up to 10 (completion). This is instability after the initial success and stability. It's a challenge or obstacle number in this position but it means you have to be strong when this brings fear and you have to become more flexible to deal with what happens. All the minor 5 cards are difficult in their suit because it's a challenge right in the middle of the minors line-up. It shows that are paths ahead are not smooth, there are obstacles and challenges and change is constantly ongoing. If you read reversals, they are also more positive when reversed usually. For example this reversed card shows being open to change and letting go of conflicts in the past. Whereas upright there is fighting against changing anything.

 

I often work with this card by thinking which person represents the Querent in the reading with the card. This depends of course on the card art. The basic idea here is about conflict with your options and thoughts. Taking the RWS card image as an example, these people haven't literally fought with swords, they have argued / debated / fought with their discussions and debates and some people have lost and some people have worn. Perhaps friends meet up for dinner and then start discussing politics, one of them thinks he had "owned" the debate but ultimately, they all had a miserable time of arguing and there are no real winners. Or maybe they all play a board game together and one of them cheats to win! In the RWS image, this guy at the front is smirking and holds all the swords, he holds all the power now and has "won" and conquered, the 2 in the background look upset and are "defeated". This person is the proud winner but actually hasn't won anything, because he has lost the respect of his friends behind. This conflict has destroyed them all. This card is being careful what battles you fight and what arguments and discussions you have. Like if you are meeting friends, should you really discuss politics, if you have differences of opinion? Ultimately, this card represents ambition which goes negative, they have all ended up defeated. By being careful about the battles and arguments you fight, you can have a more peaceful existence. Sometimes having close relationships or bonding with friends means you have to becareful what you are getting in to, let it go and don't go there! I think with this card about other people, you might get rejected or hurt but you need to change approaches perhaps.

 

In my own life, I decided a few years ago to no longer get in fights and arguments on social media. I used to be the queen of debating people on issues and would not let it go! However it was time-consuming and at times stressful. Why waste your time and energy on someone you don't even know? Walking away is so much healthier, they don't deserve to take up my time in the day and I can move on and spend more time on other stuff. So that is how it manifested for me 🙂 .

Thank you for your reply. The numerology provides some useful context I think, in the way it situates the 5s as obstacles, but also part of a road forwards - challenges on the road towards some type of progress and evolution. I am trying to contemplate my recent readings in this context and I am wondering if it's the connection itself that creates this scenario of 'no win'  - is the querent thinking about the connection itself in that way? That no matter their move, no matter if they decide to stay or go, it all ends up an empty victory? If they stay it doesn't lead anywhere and makes them feel bad, but if they go that also feels wrong and not what they want?  It would mean there doesn't have to be a specific issue that is at stake here, it's the connection per se. That would actually make a lot of sense!

[Chariot]

Funny, I just got the 5 of Swords as a clarifier in the 'advice' position yesterday, while I was doing my early morning mind/body/spirit/advice reading I do every day.

There is always a tendency, when using RWS cards, to perhaps over-dramatise a card when it appears.  I've had to learn to tone down my interpretation.  Yesterday's plan of action was for me to phone my bank, which is about to impose 'paperless statements' on us, unless we contact them and reverse that process.

My main advice card was The World, reversed, which I usually interpret as something that isn't quite finished yet.  Since I have other things going on as well, I also chose a clarifying card to help pinpoint which of my issues the reversed World was referring to.  The clarifier was the 5 of Swords upright.

And hey ho. I did get through to the bank—but they won't let me change back to paper statements until AFTER the 20th of January.  The 5 of Swords was telling me to accept I wasn't going to win my battle just yet. I needed to curb any futile belligerence towards the guy on the phone, and just creep quietly away!  So I did.

It will be interesting to see what daily cards I pull on Sunday morning ...the 21st.  🙂 

I usually interpret the 5 of Swords as having something to do with putting a face on something, if that makes sense.  The losers seem more humiliated than they are actually hurt.  In the RWS illustration, it doesn't look as if an actual battle or swordfight has taken place ...just that the winner now holds all the swords and the losers—who don't seem to be wounded in any physical way—just have to slink off and make the best of it.  There are a few decks I own where the 5 of Swords is quite a scary card (the Anna K deck is one example) but, in general, it's a card that means you've lost face or lost a battle of wills, etc.   Or you might be the perpetrator of some unfair contest win, or you might be a bully or a victim of one.

Edited January 19, 2024 by Chariot

[Siri5]

1 hour ago, Chariot said:

Funny, I just got the 5 of Swords as a clarifier in the 'advice' position yesterday, while I was doing my early morning mind/body/spirit/advice reading I do every day.

There is always a tendency, when using RWS cards, to perhaps over-dramatise a card when it appears.  I've had to learn to tone down my interpretation.  Yesterday's plan of action was for me to phone my bank, which is about to impose 'paperless statements' on us, unless we contact them and reverse that process.

My main advice card was The World, reversed, which I usually interpret as something that isn't quite finished yet.  Since I have other things going on as well, I also chose a clarifying card to help pinpoint which of my issues the reversed World was referring to.  The clarifier was the 5 of Swords upright.

And hey ho. I did get through to the bank—but they won't let me change back to paper statements until AFTER the 20th of January.  The 5 of Swords was telling me to accept I wasn't going to win my battle just yet. I needed to curb any futile belligerence towards the guy on the phone, and just creep quietly away!  So I did.

It will be interesting to see what daily cards I pull on Sunday morning ...the 21st.  🙂 

I usually interpret the 5 of Swords as having something to do with putting a face on something, if that makes sense.  The losers seem more humiliated than they are actually hurt.  In the RWS illustration, it doesn't look as if an actual battle or swordfight has taken place ...just that the winner now holds all the swords and the losers—who don't seem to be wounded in any physical way—just have to slink off and make the best of it.  There are a few decks I own where the 5 of Swords is quite a scary card (the Anna K deck is one example) but, in general, it's a card that means you've lost face or lost a battle of wills, etc.   Or you might be the perpetrator of some unfair contest win, or you might be a bully or a victim of one.

Thanks for your take @Chariot, reading it as an humiliation actually makes a lot of sense and ties in quite well with my understanding of the card as one where one person does not feel they are equal / on the same level, or like the other party is holding all the power. It gives a kind of ‘they’ve got it all going on and I’ve got nothing and I feel embarrassed  / humiliated’.

 

I think it ties in quite well with the other meaning of the card as a no-win situation because in a way that’s what this is too - no matter what you do in the situation you are going to feel lesser and kind of humiliated. I feel this is all the perspective of the one whose reading it is, it isn’t necessarily how the other person may see it - they may be gloating, or not, but depending on the reading (this wouldn’t at all work with every reading of course)  I feel it’s really more about perception of defeat and humiliation/ embarrassment than about the attitude of the person holding all the swords. Like your reading about the bank - it was about you not being able to win this one, not about the bank gloating about it. 

Re over-dramatising the cards, yes I totally agree! I feel there are certain cards that seem to almost have a bad rep, especially on social media. The Tower comes to mind, that seems to really scare people, and also the Seven of Swords. I’ve seen quite a few readings on social media recently that immediately go all doom and gloom when it pops up and jump to an interpretation of the card as ‘yup, your person is cheating on you’ and every time I want to shout ‘stop, aren’t you going a bit fast here?!’  I’m not saying that the card can’t mean that but really, there are a myriad of ways in which every one of us are a tiny bit dishonest or hold something back every single day and it really needn’t be this dramatic. It could be anything from you trying to deceive yourself about something to someone else not being honest about that top you were wearing today, which they didn’t like, but they didn’t say because they didn’t want to hurt your feelings. It’s all about context and it doesn’t always have to be anything earth-shattering. 

[Misterei]

2 hours ago, Siri5 said:

... Re over-dramatising the cards, yes I totally agree! I feel there are certain cards that seem to almost have a bad rep, especially on social media ...

God save us from Social!

Vis a vis "humiliation" and 5 swords

SOMETIMES [if supported by the context and spread] I read 5 swords as someone who will "throw you under the bus". This can be humiliating or even harmful if you're left being blamed for someone else's mistake. Someone trying to make you look bad in front of others ... I see 5 swords in this meaning when the client has an enemy or "frenemy" at work or whatnot.

 

I DO find 5 swords to be throroughly disagreeable ... but I read 7 swords far more lightly and even positive than most. Tower as well. Context is everything and this nuance gets lost in the clickbait world.

[Zig]

I've read all of the previous comments. Thank you.

 

I'm trying to put into words the meaning I've developed for this card, which is somewhat fluid nevertheless. Based on a foundational understanding, or anchor meaning, I see it not from the point of view of the defeated, but instead "A win or favorable development achieved through selfishness or questionable ethics."

 

The "questionable ethics" part might be how a querent perceives themself--doing favorably in "this area," but with an element of shame hanging in the air. It can be a card that merely defines the topical situation with further details about that situation in adjacent cards. So, for me, it can be saying, "On the topic of this condition favorable to you, but in which you feel (or others think you should feel) some embarrassment or guilt for the way you've achieved it..."

 

Oy. Language can be a bugger sometimes.

[Siri5]

10 minutes ago, Zig said:

I've read all of the previous comments. Thank you.

 

I'm trying to put into words the meaning I've developed for this card, which is somewhat fluid nevertheless. Based on a foundational understanding, or anchor meaning, I see it not from the point of view of the defeated, but instead "A win or favorable development achieved through selfishness or questionable ethics."

 

The "questionable ethics" part might be how a querent perceives themself--doing favorably in "this area," but with an element of shame hanging in the air. It can be a card that merely defines the topical situation with further details about that situation in adjacent cards. So, for me, it can be saying, "On the topic of this condition favorable to you, but in which you feel (or others think you should feel) some embarrassment or guilt for the way you've achieved it..."

 

Oy. Language can be a bugger sometimes.

 

Thank you, I really like that take, and it actually fits really well with a reading I had a while ago that I was struggling to understand. I kept getting the 5 of swords in relation to how someone feels about a meeting / conversation. All the other cards were very positive. It came to me that it likely relates to how the other person feels about themselves - they often seem to talk about how they need to be more proactive and make a go of things. It occurred to me that they might feel they don’t deserve the way they are regarded because they think they are not that great. So a kind of imposter syndrome, feeling like you have somehow ‘cheated’ and won people’s respect when really you don’t deserve it. It fits in with both the idea of this card implying that it’s a no-winners scenario (because it’s a win that is perceived as ‘not deserved’) and what you are saying about the questionable ethics in relation to how the querend / person who is the focus of the reading perceives themselves and that element of shame about not being deserving. 

[Siri5]

On 1/19/2024 at 9:03 PM, Misterei said:

God save us from Social!

Vis a vis "humiliation" and 5 swords

SOMETIMES [if supported by the context and spread] I read 5 swords as someone who will "throw you under the bus". This can be humiliating or even harmful if you're left being blamed for someone else's mistake. Someone trying to make you look bad in front of others ... I see 5 swords in this meaning when the client has an enemy or "frenemy" at work or whatnot.

 

I DO find 5 swords to be throroughly disagreeable ... but I read 7 swords far more lightly and even positive than most. Tower as well. Context is everything and this nuance gets lost in the clickbait world.

 

I thought I had responded but now I can’t find the reply anywhere so maybe this only happened in my head…

 

I agree, it’s hard to find anything positive in the card, it is just full of negative emotions, not matter how it’s read and no matter what the context. It doesn’t have to be anything hugely dramatic, and no matter how you look at it there is something OFF with either a situation or at least with how someone feels about either the situation or themselves within the situation. It says that something here is not good. 

 

And yes, the 7 of Swords is quite … versatile, for lack of a better word. It can be bad but it really doesn’t have to be. I’ve even once come across a reading where someone had read it as ‘research’ in a reading about a study situation - reading about the ideas of others. This had not occurred to me before but given the right context I can see the card in that way and that really isn’t a bad thing. Similarly I’ve often had it in situations where any hugely negative take just made no sense at all and it seemed to indicate that not all the cards were on the table, that there were some elements to a situation that remained deliberately concealed because it would have been disruptive / unhelpful to reveal them. Again, not in itself a negative thing at all and also something that is all too common - most of us are not completely open books all of the time and we make choices as to what we reveal and what we don’t, and not just for nefarious reasons but for all sorts of quite harmless or even caring ones. 

[Zig]

@Siri5

 

Thank you for your detailed response, which validates my thinking and supports me in this early stage on this forum. You think and type very quickly. Your response came in as I was thinking of modifying my text to be sure I admit to other possible related meanings, some posted here, such as simply that, "You have achieved something through the suffering of others," but I think that situation is more rare. It's more likely for me that it applies for instance to a person who worked hard all their life with pride, but is currently on disability and shame hangs in the air for them.

[Aeon418]

I don't read with the RWS or decks inspired by it. But whenever I see the RWS card I wonder why those two guys are walking away. Are they cowards? Pacifists? Or too proud to fight? Unless they show some backbone defeat is inevitable. Force of numbers is on their side, 2 against 1. And yet they seem so feeble and apathetic, just letting that guy in the foreground walk in and take it all away from them. Pathetic! Stand your ground and prepare to fight your corner.

 

Another possibility is a warning against treachery of the divide and conquer variety.

Edited January 28, 2024 by Aeon418

[Chariot]

The 5 of Swords is somewhat problematic for some tarot card designers, and there are some wildly different approaches to it.  Here are two that are not much like the RWS version.

 

The really scary one is from The Anna K Tarot ...which is actually—for me anyway—the scariest, most negative card in her otherwise calm and wonderful deck!  I mean, there is nothing good here, is there?  The victims are not just humiliated, they are in real danger.  Yikes.

In Anna's own words: "This is one of the few solely negative tarot cards.  The Five of Swords means humiliation, wanton destruction of the whole,injuring of the innocent, violence and vindictiveness—in short, any perfidy you can imagine.  By the way, this card does not say whether these are things that happen to us as a victim or whether we ourselves are the wrongdoers."  Anna K doesn't do reversals, so basically, that's a nasty card to receive...full stop.

On the other hand, the 5 of Blades (Swords) from The Everyday Enchantment Tarot by Poppy Palin, is a different kettle of fish.  In fact, it's amusing.  Here you have Gordon Ramsay throwing a hissy fit because the worker facing him has not measured up.  The chef in the background looks on, also with a frown on his face—but it's not entirely obvious whether he is also annoyed with the hapless worker, or whether he thinks Gordon is being an arrogant prima donna.

Oddly enough, according to Poppy's statement about the card, the chef in the background IS annoyed at the head chef for being an arrogant doofus!—and consequently is in sympathy with the scolded worker!  So make of that what you will.

Tarot is fun!   Except when it scares the trousers off you....  

Edited January 28, 2024 by Chariot

[Aeon418]

25 minutes ago, Chariot said:

Oddly enough, according to Poppy's statement about the card, the chef in the background IS annoyed at the head chef for being a doofus!—and consequently is in sympathy with the scolded worker!  So make of that what you will.

 

But he's not doing anything! Sympathy is fine. But unless he acts upon that sympathy nothing will change. The other Chef on the left looks like he's walking away from trouble, hoping it won't come looking for him. Neither attitude is helpful.

[Chariot]

39 minutes ago, Aeon418 said:

 

But he's not doing anything! Sympathy is fine. But unless he acts upon that sympathy nothing will change. The other Chef on the left looks like he's walking away from trouble, hoping it won't come looking for him. Neither attitude is helpful.

Yes, that's a good idea to incorporate into the meaning of the card.  In fact, Poppy's own story is that the second chef (the one in the background, who is frowning) is considering walking out, because he's tired of this chef (who happens to be a woman, actually, not Gordon Ramsay ...I was joking there) has been treating the staff badly and playing one off against the other.  Apparently the third chef in the background is also ready to look for new employment.

While the entire story isn't obvious from looking at the picture, the story does make sense when considering the meaning of the 5 of Swords/Blades.  It has to do with creating ill-will instead of cooperation, and making life difficult for others because of a desire for one-upsmanship, and winning at all costs.  It's actually quite close to the RWS meaning ...a lot closer than the Anna K depiction.

[Aeon418]

I think cards like the 5 of Swords, while their appearance in a spread may be unwelcome, can indicate a difficult situation that affords us an opportunity to rise to the challenge and show what we're really made of. Admittedly, this is not easy. In fact it's often tempting to take the easy way out, keep our heads down and hope that we're not noticed. "I hope someone takes on that bully, as long as it's not me!" But difficult situations and circumstances that require us to stand up for our principles, show moral courage and integrity are valuable opportunities for growth, provided we don't succumb to the knee jerk reaction to turn away from unpleasantness that we would rather not face.      

[Zig]

This discussion, and others I've had time to look at, reinforce the notion that successful reading is not dependent on universally agreed upon inflexible interpretations. I know this is no explosive new discovery but rather widely accepted. I get that the operation can vary readers and decks, but we can have confidence that the cards will fall nevertheless in sympathetic resonance between the two parties so that the result has no less opportunity to be successful. Even so, continuing to study the texts and engage in such discussions as these allows for readers or students like me to stretch our boundaries of previous notions or fuzzy generalizations. Which is a blathering way of saying I'm enjoying learning alongside you. Thanks.

[Misterei]

Some interesting comments!

Vis a vis RWS 5 swords. This illustration [to me] shows a power play and spiteful emotions that have left negativity or even tragedy in their wake. The "winner" feels no joy -- only spite. A spiteful win [5 swrods] is different from a joyful win [6 wands].

 

In Pythagoras, 5 is a number for marriage, justice, balance. we might see these things in a neutral light in Hierophant or Temperance card ... but in 5 swords I read it as the IMBALANCE that happens on the way. Air is the most unstable of the elements. 5 is an unstable number. The "marriage" is new. It hasn't settled into the stability of 6. It's half of what if could be [10].

 

Thus even without the RWS images ... I see 5 swords as an unstable element and unbalanced situation. It's half-way to the complete devastation and betrayal of 10 swords.

 

I admit that I mostly read this card in the RWS style. For me, it so perfectly describes spite, toxic jealousy, bullying. No other card quite says those scenarios like 5 words [for me]. At 10 swords the betrayal is complete and obvious. At 5 swords it might be hidden under false friendship, gaslighting, mental games.

[Natural Mystic Guide]

On 1/19/2024 at 4:23 AM, Siri5 said:

I’ve been thinking about the five of swords recently, which I find quite a complex card, and I’d be interested in the thoughts of others. 

I've arrived at a new way of reading this card within the last 6 months or so.  I now see it as 'Karmic Lessons'.  The other figures in the RWS card are the same person who is in the foreground -- but either at other times in his/her life or even in past lives.  It speaks to repeating a similar situation and not learning the lesson until finally in the now moment, the lesson is learned.  I see it as very positive.  If it is reversed, though, it means having difficulty in learning the karmic lesson and perhaps needing to repeat it yet again.

[Siri5]

On 1/30/2024 at 3:55 AM, Natural Mystic Guide said:

I've arrived at a new way of reading this card within the last 6 months or so.  I now see it as 'Karmic Lessons'.  The other figures in the RWS card are the same person who is in the foreground -- but either at other times in his/her life or even in past lives.  It speaks to repeating a similar situation and not learning the lesson until finally in the now moment, the lesson is learned.  I see it as very positive.  If it is reversed, though, it means having difficulty in learning the karmic lesson and perhaps needing to repeat it yet again.

I like that and it resonates because I had a period when that card popped up over and over in related readings about a situation, which was otherwise positive, and had no overt conflict (other than possibly internally, which was the aspect I found intriguing because if there was conflict it wasn't externally, with others) so it was unlikely to be something dramatically negative. Yet the card persistently turned up.

 

This situation was the reason I first started thinking about this card and its many layers of meaning. The idea of a karmic lesson makes sense I think, and I love how you consider the visual representation - are the figures on the card all the same person? I had not noticed that but it would make so much sense. I have to dig out my RW deck!! It depends on the artwork of course, but if they are it visualises that this is potentially a conflict within the self rather than necessarily externally (although of course that remains an option depending on the reading). 

[Siri5]

On 1/28/2024 at 9:29 PM, Chariot said:

The 5 of Swords is somewhat problematic for some tarot card designers, and there are some wildly different approaches to it.  Here are two that are not much like the RWS version.

 

The really scary one is from The Anna K Tarot ...which is actually—for me anyway—the scariest, most negative card in her otherwise calm and wonderful deck!  I mean, there is nothing good here, is there?  The victims are not just humiliated, they are in real danger.  Yikes.

In Anna's own words: "This is one of the few solely negative tarot cards.  The Five of Swords means humiliation, wanton destruction of the whole,injuring of the innocent, violence and vindictiveness—in short, any perfidy you can imagine.  By the way, this card does not say whether these are things that happen to us as a victim or whether we ourselves are the wrongdoers."  Anna K doesn't do reversals, so basically, that's a nasty card to receive...full stop.

On the other hand, the 5 of Blades (Swords) from The Everyday Enchantment Tarot by Poppy Palin, is a different kettle of fish.  In fact, it's amusing.  Here you have Gordon Ramsay throwing a hissy fit because the worker facing him has not measured up.  The chef in the background looks on, also with a frown on his face—but it's not entirely obvious whether he is also annoyed with the hapless worker, or whether he thinks Gordon is being an arrogant prima donna.

Oddly enough, according to Poppy's statement about the card, the chef in the background IS annoyed at the head chef for being an arrogant doofus!—and consequently is in sympathy with the scolded worker!  So make of that what you will.

Tarot is fun!   Except when it scares the trousers off you....  

This is so fascinating! I love all the different interpretations in the art work. 

 

The Anna K Tarot interpretation is interesting - I'd never seen such an outrageously negative representation of the card. It kind of took me aback, I was so startled by it. Generally I think I tend towards finding it a bit too biased, not because I don't acknowledge that the interpretation is a potential way of reading the card, depending on the reading/circumstances, but it seems to rather narrow down meaning as opposed to highlighting the many facets of the card. 

 

Overall, though, this is great, and it highlights how layered and complex these cards are. Really enjoying this thread!