Five of swords meanings

[Siri5]

On 1/28/2024 at 7:35 PM, Aeon418 said:

I don't read with the RWS or decks inspired by it. But whenever I see the RWS card I wonder why those two guys are walking away. Are they cowards? Pacifists? Or too proud to fight? Unless they show some backbone defeat is inevitable. Force of numbers is on their side, 2 against 1. And yet they seem so feeble and apathetic, just letting that guy in the foreground walk in and take it all away from them. Pathetic! Stand your ground and prepare to fight your corner.

 

Another possibility is a warning against treachery of the divide and conquer variety.

This is a good point. @Natural Mystic Guide above suggested that they might be the same person, just different versions of it. That would emphasise the self-defeating element that this card has, the way we can harm ourselves by repeating self-destructive behaviour, thereby creating a cycle of behaviour where we can only lose, unless we break the cycle itself? It would focus one layer of meaning of this card inward, towards the self, rather than external conflict (which is obviously another meaning too, depending on the reading).

[Siri5]

On 1/29/2024 at 4:03 AM, Zig said:

This discussion, and others I've had time to look at, reinforce the notion that successful reading is not dependent on universally agreed upon inflexible interpretations. I know this is no explosive new discovery but rather widely accepted. I get that the operation can vary readers and decks, but we can have confidence that the cards will fall nevertheless in sympathetic resonance between the two parties so that the result has no less opportunity to be successful. Even so, continuing to study the texts and engage in such discussions as these allows for readers or students like me to stretch our boundaries of previous notions or fuzzy generalizations. Which is a blathering way of saying I'm enjoying learning alongside you. Thanks.

I agree, that's what comes through really clearly for me too. There is really no one way of reading this card (or, I suspect, any other tarot card), and readings really depend on context, even with a card that in itself points towards something that isn't right, isn't in balance, and suggests an unhappy struggle with no clear win. 

 

On 1/29/2024 at 6:42 PM, Misterei said:

Some interesting comments!

Vis a vis RWS 5 swords. This illustration [to me] shows a power play and spiteful emotions that have left negativity or even tragedy in their wake. The "winner" feels no joy -- only spite. A spiteful win [5 swrods] is different from a joyful win [6 wands].

 

In Pythagoras, 5 is a number for marriage, justice, balance. we might see these things in a neutral light in Hierophant or Temperance card ... but in 5 swords I read it as the IMBALANCE that happens on the way. Air is the most unstable of the elements. 5 is an unstable number. The "marriage" is new. It hasn't settled into the stability of 6. It's half of what if could be [10].

 

Thus even without the RWS images ... I see 5 swords as an unstable element and unbalanced situation. It's half-way to the complete devastation and betrayal of 10 swords.

 

I admit that I mostly read this card in the RWS style. For me, it so perfectly describes spite, toxic jealousy, bullying. No other card quite says those scenarios like 5 words [for me]. At 10 swords the betrayal is complete and obvious. At 5 swords it might be hidden under false friendship, gaslighting, mental games.

Yes, I  feel that significance of the 5 as an instability, an imbalance, is what holds all the meanings of the card together. That imbalance and instability can be something outward - such as a conflict situation with others - or something inward, in a kind of struggle with the self, such as a karmic cycle of self-defeat, as was suggested above. It's quite an unsettling card, though, no matter where on the scale its meaning in a reading falls, it indicates a rather toxic struggle with no obvious win. 

[Misterei]

4 hours ago, Siri5 said:

Yes, I  feel that significance of the 5 as an instability, an imbalance, is what holds all the meanings of the card together. That imbalance and instability can be something outward - such as a conflict situation with others - or something inward, in a kind of struggle with the self, ...

Yes. I recently had this card [and a whole 5 theme!] in a health spread. It addressed INNER cruelty that might cause a person to take on toxic emotions and "store" them within the body. In general medical science says stress is a causative factor for disease ... 5 swords might show this very specifically as toxic / cruel emotions causing disease or pain in the body. A self-bullying or self-cruelty as one's own mind harms one's body.

[Sar]

This is 5/Swords from my all time favorite, The Whimsical Tarot. Here you have the Rat catcher in Hameln play flute so fascinating that the children of Hameln just went with him into the mountain and no grownup could stop them. Quite a crude card about the subject of 5/Swords.

[Siri5]

On 2/5/2024 at 8:13 PM, Sar said:

This is 5/Swords from my all time favorite, The Whimsical Tarot. Here you have the Rat catcher in Hameln play flute so fascinating that the children of Hameln just went with him into the mountain and no grownup could stop them. Quite a crude card about the subject of 5/Swords.

 

oh I love this image @Sar, it really captures the winning by unfair means, achieving a questionable goal but everyone will think you are an a***hole for doing so 😉 - it's a win that's no win because it's self-defeating - you get what you want but you'll be judged for it, thereby turning the victory sour (if you care for the thing you are losing, which, I think the 5 of S implies you do...).

So it's crude, but not that crude, really... Depends on the type of person the rat catcher is. In the fairy tale he never seemed to me like he cared about anything or anyone, but I think the 5 of S implies that the querent (or the person the card refers to) does care, because it's that caring that makes the win problematic because although the end result may have indicated it worked it turns out the end result does not justify the means. 

Edited February 10, 2024 by Siri5

[Sar]

6 hours ago, Siri5 said:

In the fairy tale he never seemed to me like he cared about anything or anyone,

The town people thought they could play him (pun intended), but he played them all good and we still hear about it. 

[Siri5]

17 hours ago, Sar said:

The town people thought they could play him (pun intended), but he played them all good and we still hear about it. 

Oh yes! I’d forgotten that they used him to get rid of all the rats and that it was his response to be I’ll used by them to take the kids!  So he does care, he does it because they used him and he feels played and sore about it, but two wrongs still don’t make a right - his victory is empty because although it hurts the towns people, thereby achieving what he wants, it doesn’t get him what he truly wants, which is to he accepted and valued and treated with respect - they just hate him more now. So he can’t win really, even when he does - snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 😉. 
 

I’m loving this discussion, and what the artwork of different decks brings to it. 

[Sar]

13 minutes ago, Siri5 said:

I’m loving this discussion, and what the artwork of different decks brings to it. 

I love how different artists interprete the tarot cards. So many good things that whow that Tarot is a fully rounded oracle.

[Siri5]

Recently got a new deck, which I love, and I thought I'd add the artistic interpretation of the 5 of Swords here, because I found it interesting and helpful in how to frame the card in my readings. 

 

I was initially taken back by this interpretation, but it resonates so much with how I often see this card. It rarely seems to come out for in in situations that are straightforwardly indicating wrong treatment by others, or by me but seems to indicate that something about an interaction felt wrong, or painful, but often not in a way that implies malice or intentional harm. This is something that although part of the meaning of the card, isn't always clear in the artwork, which so often seems to suggest more intentionality around the pain that is inflicted. 

 

The artwork here, although it fully acknowledges the pain and the mistakes that were made, either by the querent or someone else, focusses instead on solutions, on ways to not go there again, on trying to figure out how not to repeat the mistakes of the past. This can mean many things - avoiding a person or situation, or reacting differently. It can mean cutting off a connection, or trying to approach a connection that is important in a different way to avoid repeating the same mistakes. I find it a much more useful and also somehow less overly dramatic and fatalistic way of looking at the card and it resonates so much more with many of my readings. 

Edited April 18, 2024 by Siri5

[Rootwood]

Reading all these comments and shouting YES! 

I feel that conflict is inevitable in life. How you conduct yourself in conflict matters.  A lot.  Are you a person of honour and goodwill? Or are you a double dealing weasel?  Will you develop a reputation for being trustworthy and fair, or will you eventually gain the sticky title of cheater and traitor?

The 5 of wands is the card of conflict done well.  Like a family dinner where everyone spars, perhaps loudly and vigorously.  But the preservation of love and good feelings between everyone is at the core. Everyone fights/argues in such a way that the discussion stays on topic and does not become a personal assault on someone's character. At the end of the day everyone hugs and goes home and all is well. 

Contrast this to the 5 of swords. This person is a sneak, a cheat and they do not enter conflict with fair resolution as the goal but rather a win, at any cost. They make it personal. They will betray and harm a friend or anyone to gain a point. They go through life like the blade of a food processor, sharp and spinning and slicing. People who walk away from this person do so out of a sad realization that to protect themselves from over-the-top harm, they have to leave.  And what is winner left with? Warm, snuggly puppies? No. He wins swords. Cold, hard, heavy and sharp. That is his prize for winning at the personal expense of others.  Alone, with a heap of swords. There are sore losers in the world and this guy is a sore winner. 

I have not seen all the Anna K. tarot, but someone posted a pic of the 5 of swords.  I was struck.  In war we have rules of engagement. Even in war, nations have agreed what is tolerable and what is not. That is where 'war crimes' comes from. In that card we see someone who is not being an honourable soldier,  acting without a code of ethics.  Going off script and letting savage butchery take over.  A criminal.  Winning and brutality can feed a very ugly dog that resides in the heart of humans.  I think the 5 of swords tells someone to get their dog on a leash, that they have acted with savagery. And yes, passive aggressive sweetness  can be just as savage. A means to get your own way by being helpless, fluttery  and claiming virtue in what you are doing and what you want.  Manipulation and underhanded conduct leaps out at me from the 5 of swords.  A dirty fighter who does whatever it takes to get the win. Not interested in fair resolution or middle ground agreement to disagree. Not a negotiator, but someone who wields a sword to the hand offered to him in fair exchange.  At the 10 you have to wonder if those swords weren't stuck there by all the people he so callously stomped on at the 5 ?