nebulous and unclear cards...

[Siri5]

Hi there!

 

I thought we might have a thread on difficult cards...

 

I'm new to the study of Lenormand, and I've spent a fair bit of time studying over the past few weeks, but it's obviously all still very new to me and the nuance of the cards isn't always clear to me. I also struggle because I'm fairly experienced with the tarot by now so feel tempted to carry that way of reading the cards into the Lenormand. I really like it, though, the often very clear-cut messages appeal to me and often seem very spot-on.

 

One thing I noticed - while there are some cards that feel very clear to me in their meanings, even when nuanced, there are others that I find really nebulous and almost, well... mute in a way. So as an example, the Ring or the Clouds, or the Dog, or the Anchor, or the Ship all seem quite clear in their layers of meanings. 

 

These are cards that I find less clear when they appear in my pairings: the Lily, the Tower, the Snake, the Fish, the Tree. 

 

What do others feel? Is this your perception too? Do you have other cards that you tend to struggle with? And how do you read the more difficult cards when they appear in your combinations? I would love to hear some thoughts! 

Edited September 26, 2024 by Siri5

[DanielJUK]

This is true, some cards are more difficult to work out. We see that though in tarot as well, some tarot cards people post more often about and cannot work it out!

 

I think the fundamental idea of Lenormand is to learn the core meaning of every card. The Lenormand theory is that you learn this meaning and then you can take that card and it fits any situation that it comes up in. But this is extremely difficult starting out and becomes easier with experience. Like you have to get used to the card and it's meaning, that comes from experience and using it over and over. Once you know the idea of each card, you have to practice and you will get experience of how that card works. Applying that core idea and making it fit is the really tricky part.

 

It really helped me to go back to the PL original instruction sheet with one of the early decks. High Res scan from Mary Greer's blog....

https://marykgreer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/evening-worlds-magazine-tell-fortunes-1903-version-21.jpg

 

All meanings stem from those meanings, they are short text and sometimes a little obscure but it really helped my understanding of each card.

 

For example The Clouds, clouds bring confusion (we saw that symbolism in tarot and other card systems as well), it makes things unclear as you cannot see through it. It might make you anxious or confused. What is real, what is not? The sheet above states that the clouds have two sides, we see this often in the artwork of the card. The side which is clear, whiter clouds or has the sun shining is positive but the sad that has a dark clouds/ rain/ etc, is negative. So which side touches the next card changes it. It can bring confusion and a lack of clarity, or the sun can come out from the clouds again and it brings better times and increased clarity.

 

When you have your "core" idea of each card, you then make a story or a sentence of the combination that comes up.

 

[joy]

Hey @Siri5 great that you are starting out with Lenormand, I prefer it over Tarot, as I am the blunt and direct person. 😆
What exactly do you mean with this statement? I have seen too many people coming from Tarot and mixing up the Moon for example... As @DanielJUK mentioned, the PLC is really the place to start out.

 

5 hours ago, Siri5 said:

 I also struggle because I'm fairly experienced with the tarot by now so feel tempted to carry that way of reading the cards into the Lenormand.

 

 

Maybe you want to start out a thread for these cards you struggle with?

 

5 hours ago, Siri5 said:

These are cards that I find less clear when they appear in my pairings: the Lily, the Tower, the Snake, the Fish, the Tree.

 

 

What exactly are you struggling with? Lily for example unfortunately has become the Sex card lately. But in my opinion that is very wrong. It is not an old man, that wants sex with you. It is more satisfaction and harmony.
But again, it is difficult with Lenormand to discuss single cards, as they really need to be read in pairs.

[Siri5]

22 minutes ago, joy said:

Maybe you want to start out a thread for these cards you struggle with?

I may, if I come up against any of them in a specific reading. For this post it was more a general observation that some cards appear to have a more clearly defined 'presence' in the deck, while others, to me, feel more like they add a nuance, or a 'mood', so something far less defined, and I was wondering if that was just my perception or if others feel like that too. 

 

24 minutes ago, joy said:

Lily for example unfortunately has become the Sex card lately. But in my opinion that is very wrong. It is not an old man, that wants sex with you. It is more satisfaction and harmony.
But again, it is difficult with Lenormand to discuss single cards, as they really need to be read in pairs.

I can honestly say I've not had the Lily come up as a dirty old man yet, and even while struggling with the card I've not been tempted to read it that way. I've been reading around it and yes, the general 'mood' seems to be one of harmony and goodness of some kind, but that's just it, to me it feels more like a 'filler' card, that adds a mood to a card that has a more substantial meaning. I am sure a more experienced reader would pick this up very easily but what I struggle with in the case of the Lily for example is what the card adds to a given pairing. 

So yes, I am sure when I have a good example I'll come back to ask about it more specifically - this was really more a post out of curiosity to see if others have a similar perception of the cards in that some cards seem to have more substance, while others appear to speak less loudly and add/alter the mood of a pairing in much more subtle ways. 🙂 

[joy]

6 hours ago, Siri5 said:

So yes, I am sure when I have a good example I'll come back to ask about it more specifically - this was really more a post out of curiosity to see if others have a similar perception of the cards in that some cards seem to have more substance, while others appear to speak less loudly and add/alter the mood of a pairing in much more subtle ways. 🙂 

Yes, I totally agree. Some cards are loud and easy to understand, and some difficult. And then the question changes, and they can become totally unclear. 😆

[Misterei]

23 hours ago, Siri5 said:

One thing I noticed - while there are some cards that feel very clear to me in their meanings, even when nuanced, there are others that I find really nebulous and almost, well... mute in a way.

There's a YT channel called The Lenormand Reader and she has a whole vidoe series on what she calls *mute* cards. i enjoyed her take on this issue.

Here's a link to one of her Mute Cards videos

 

I've found in both Tarot and LN there are some cards which seem more mysterious or *mute* to me.

In Tarot I have zero doubts what The Devil means. But Hierophant often baffles me.

More cards seem mysterious in LN b/c I've not been reading it as long as Tarot.

In the end I know practice will help with the cards that seem mute to me in LN.

But also, I think some archetypes I just don't connect with, so the card will always be a bit mysterious to me. Like Hierophant in Tarot.

Edited September 27, 2024 by Misterei

[Siri5]

1 hour ago, Misterei said:

There's a YT channel called The Lenormand Reader and she has a whole vidoe series on what she calls *mute* cards. i enjoyed her take on this issue.

Here's a link to one of her Mute Cards videos

Oooh, this is fabulous, thank you! 

 

And yes, it's true, there are cards like that in Tarot too. I feel a similar way about the Hierophant. In some readings he appears as a mentor figure, and I get on with that, but often he remains very unclear to me. I went through a period when he popped up all the time, it was driving me round the bend because clearly he had something to say and I never quite figured it out!  I also feel that way about Justice. In some readings the card makes sense, but often I feel it's oddly silent, which, considering it's a major, is just unlikely to be right...

 

I suspect you are right, it will get better as I practice Lenormand more, but I also suspect that some cards are just more subtle in the influence they wield on a pairing. Some cards steer boldly, others just subtly change the mood but they don't shout as loudly.