RickInBakersfield Posted January 1 Posted January 1 (edited) Happy New Year everyone! My question is do you believe it's okay to do a reading for someone who is in the public eye like a politician or a celebrity...even though they don't know you? I guess what I am trying to say is that I've always avoided questions that have always invaded other people's privacy...questions like "Does Johnny love me?" I would always reframe those type of questions for the sitter. Would I be out of line to do a YouTube video on a political figure (a three-card spread like Issue/Action/Outcome), even if I don't know the person? The person in question here is Elon Musk. He is the richest guy in the world, he spent $250 million bucks to help get Trump elected and he's living at Trump's place in Florida. That's pretty much all I know about him. Do you think it would be ok to do a video on him and talk about what comes up in the cards? Or would I be invading his privacy if I did that? Thoughts, comments & ideas. Edited January 1 by RickInBakersfield add text
joy Posted January 1 Posted January 1 Hello @RickInBakersfield well I think you answered your own question already. You said: 52 minutes ago, RickInBakersfield said: I guess what I am trying to say is that I've always avoided questions that have always invaded other people's privacy...questions like "Does Johnny love me?" I would always reframe those type of questions for the sitter. Why would this be different with Elon Musk? I know a lot of people do read on celebrities, and I even watch and like such readings. At the end of the day, it is up to you to decide if you want to do such a reading or not.
RickInBakersfield Posted January 1 Author Posted January 1 6 hours ago, joy said: Hello @RickInBakersfield well I think you answered your own question already. You said: Why would this be different with Elon Musk? I know a lot of people do read on celebrities, and I even watch and like such readings. At the end of the day, it is up to you to decide if you want to do such a reading or not. I think I'll try to reframe the reading approach to my liking and see how it comes out before I post it. If I like it, I'll go with it. If not, I won't post it.
gregory Posted January 1 Posted January 1 I don't buy into reading on someone without their consent. And especially not putting one up on youtube. That's encouraging others to speculate too - on matters that are none of their business. It would be one thing (not that it's permitted here - politics) to read on how much his influence and money will affect the US presidency. But on him as an individual - not OK in my book, unless he asks.
RickInBakersfield Posted January 1 Author Posted January 1 25 minutes ago, gregory said: I don't buy into reading on someone without their consent. And especially not putting one up on youtube. That's encouraging others to speculate too - on matters that are none of their business. It would be one thing (not that it's permitted here - politics) to read on how much his influence and money will affect the US presidency. But on him as an individual - not OK in my book, unless he asks. Yes, I do agree with you. Rick,
Mi-Shell Posted January 1 Posted January 1 Well, apart from everything gregory said and to which I wholeheartedly agree - What you do in your own living room with your cards is your thing, BUT Why would you want to put that onto you-tube? It feels to me, as ifffff maybe that is more about YOU reading, then on whoever the prominent person of your choosing is?
DanielJUK Posted January 1 Posted January 1 I think it's a question of ethics and how you feel about it, like how far would you go? There are also different types of celebrity readings, like a professional reading about how their companies will do this year? That seems fair game, the results info is public knowledge. How will a sportsman do in the Olympics or who will win the Oscar? This seems to be reading on their professional life. I see a lot of really personal celebrity readings online and that seems wrong and a level which is equal to the worst paparazzi. My other problem with it is that it seems to be the worst channels doing it on TikTok and YouTube, it's a really tacky way of getting views and likes with Tarot. I think a better method to drive up follows and engagement is to do regular readings for the collative. Like a reading for the week or month, it's just generalised but I know people follow readers to get that regular reading. People can often take something from it. It also shows your reading skills when you want to sell them later 🙂
JoyousGirl Posted January 2 Posted January 2 (edited) Well it depends on how you go about it. This is for prediction purposes I'm guessing. Ethics does play into it, but everyone has a tendency to "do as I say and not as I do". We can all be guilty of things that hover on the line if not go over it. There's people who do name searches on social media profiles and internet history and to me that's somewhat invasive if they've never met you. So is doing a reading the same? If the information is in public territory .... what about if it impacts the public can you read about that? There would be nuance. If you are a reader who is interested in foretelling the future, then you are showing your skills by reading for someone in the public eye that can actually be referred to - did it come true or not? Wishy washy readings that don't really say anything definite isn't going to cut it. People want to say "he said that was going to happen!" Could you read for an event or company, object etc? i.e. inauguration? Tesla? Mar a Lago? The President (as opposed to Trump himself) or events or dynamics in the Oval Office? These need to be things that will come out in the media to prove your prediction. Some predictive readings that piqued my curiosity you may refer to are "revealing light Tarot" she's an Aussie - and there was a great Australian predictive astrologer Ed Tamplin (RIP). If it gets you hits, that tells you people are interested. Edited January 2 by JoyousGirl
Raggydoll Posted January 2 Posted January 2 9 hours ago, DanielJUK said: I think a better method to drive up follows and engagement is to do regular readings for the collative. Like a reading for the week or month, it's just generalised but I know people follow readers to get that regular reading. People can often take something from it. It also shows your reading skills when you want to sell them later 🙂 I think this is a good suggestion. When Youtube is part of a persons business strategy, it becomes important to think about one's target audience. Certain videos might give you many views, which would of course help your channel grow overall, but if those videos attract the 'wrong' crowd, it could negatively impact your overall experience of that platform. To me, there would be nothing worse than to attract trolls or people with loud political opinions to a tarot channel. (Or, well, I guess there is one even worse thing you could attract, which is a lawsuit. That is also an aspect of discussing actual people on youtube or elsewhere). But aside from all that, think about what your target audience is, and what type of content they might like. I think Dan's suggestion is really good for a reader that is looking to display their particular style and skill for reading cards.
katrinka Posted January 2 Posted January 2 I don't see any issue with reading on celebs/public figures. Part of fame is giving up certain expectations of privacy, and the public is, well, nuts. Before Kate Middleton revealed her cancer diagnosis, everybody was questioning her disappearance from the public eye. It wasn't long before X was providing a shedload of wacky conspiracy theories. While some theorized that Kate may have eloped with Pete Davidson, others suggested she had gone undercover to film a reality TV show. Some people took to social media with so-called timelines documenting her absence from official events. An obviously photoshopped Mother's Day photo released by Kensington Palace didn't help matters. In that case, pulling a few cards and seeing a health crisis might actually be constructive. (Not that anybody listens. People believe what they want.) You can't invade the privacy of someone who doesn't have any. My stance is that if you talk about it, you can read on it. People talk about celeb gossip. They also talk about love interests, friends, neighbors, coworkers, bosses, partners and ex partners, children, etc. ad infinitum. It would be impossible to get permission from all the people we get asked about, famous or otherwise, especially since in most cases we don't even know how to reach them. And if we could, wouldn't "Pardon me, but I'm a card reader and your girlfriend wants to know why you didn't text back last night. Is it OK with you if I read cards on this?" be a violation of client confidentiality? I'd have starved a long time ago since I'd have been turning away most clients. And I won't disrespect them by "rephrasing the question." They ask, I lay cards and read them. End of story. But I'm a standard, old fashioned reader. All those rules, rules, rules are of very recent vintage and not relevant to what I do.
RickInBakersfield Posted January 2 Author Posted January 2 15 hours ago, Mi-Shell said: Why would you want to put that onto you-tube? It feels to me, as ifffff maybe that is more about YOU reading, then on whoever the prominent person of your choosing is? Why not?
Raggydoll Posted January 2 Posted January 2 2 hours ago, gregory said: You do you, of course - but putting it up on youtube ? I do perform ’third party’ readings, but they are between me and the querent (sometimes I’m the querent!), and I personally wouldn’t put it on YouTube or a public platform, purely for the sake of privacy and confidentiality. If I wanted to market myself by showcasing my reading style, I’d share stuff that was either general or revolved around me.
gregory Posted January 2 Posted January 2 I wouldn't share a reading I had done for anyone in a public place. Exchanges here are willingly shared - but elsewhere - no. 4 hours ago, RickInBakersfield said: Why not? For common courtesy, even if their privacy matters little to you. Would you really like readings done about you paraded around for all to see ?
geoxena Posted January 2 Posted January 2 To be honest, I don't watch many tarot-related YouTube channels. There are just a few I like. But I have zero interest in watching a video of a reading for a celeb or famous person unless that celeb was also there and engaged with it.
JoyousGirl Posted January 2 Posted January 2 (edited) 3 hours ago, gregory said: Would you really like readings done about you paraded around for all to see ? That means that the exchanges we do here on TTM are private and visible only to the people involved in the exchange. Taking it further, should those exchanges be provided by private message? [ETA this should probably be the course going forward if private readings being put out to the public are a no-no.] If people are in the public eye, and have lots of power and impact on others, I think there's a social responsibility to keep them in check. There's also an opportunity, like with Astrology, to show that Tarot is not just BS, but actually works. How do we know how good and accurate a reader's skills are if they can't be tested for accuracy? This sort of uploading on Youtube means you need courage to be wrong - because it's there for all to see. The reader may get nothing right. Edited January 2 by JoyousGirl
JoyousGirl Posted January 2 Posted January 2 6 hours ago, Raggydoll said: If I wanted to market myself by showcasing my reading style, I’d share stuff that was either general or revolved around me. I'm thinking that Rick is doing this for predictive purposes - and accuracy would be the marketing point. My thinking is that if we share readings foretelling about ourselves there's no way for an observer to check that they were accurate.
JoyousGirl Posted January 2 Posted January 2 10 hours ago, katrinka said: In that case, pulling a few cards and seeing a health crisis might actually be constructive. (Not that anybody listens. People believe what they want.) You can't invade the privacy of someone who doesn't have any. My stance is that if you talk about it, you can read on it. I very much agree with this. People will gossip around the water cooler and judge others in the private spaces of their own minds. We are in a social system that tells us to compete and that we need to be superior. It seems to be another one of the old programs we continue with, like the old English class system and etiquette expectations. Authenticity gets thrown out in that drive for conformity and control. "Cancel culture" People are interested in other people, for whatever reason. We don't have to watch Rick's show if we don't agree, but going by that, neither then should we ever talk about anyone else when they are not present. Or is that taking it too far?
Raggydoll Posted January 3 Posted January 3 7 hours ago, JoyousGirl said: I'm thinking that Rick is doing this for predictive purposes - and accuracy would be the marketing point. My thinking is that if we share readings foretelling about ourselves there's no way for an observer to check that they were accurate. You’re right. What I meant with a general style reading is like a reading for the collective or a more generalized situation/event. Those could be predictive. But it’s a good point you make!
Raggydoll Posted January 3 Posted January 3 9 hours ago, geoxena said: To be honest, I don't watch many tarot-related YouTube channels. There are just a few I like. But I have zero interest in watching a video of a reading for a celeb or famous person unless that celeb was also there and engaged with it. I am like that too. I can’t help but wonder about those who regularly watch such videos: do they then buy readings from those content creators (who do celebrity readings)? What I meant is, are these viewers potential clients or not? I really have no idea, and it would be interesting to find out.
katrinka Posted January 3 Posted January 3 (edited) 18 hours ago, gregory said: You do you, of course - but putting it up on youtube ? You do you indeed, and I don't create youtube content, but yes - how is youtube any different than a blog? There's tons of celeb readings on blogs. And if you look at websites and magazines for astrology, these readings have always been the norm. Why one rule for astrologers and another for card readers? As for non-celeb readings, client confidentiality doesn't extend to the person being read about. OTOH, while it's always been pretty standard to get permission from the sitter, getting permission from the people being read about would be a violation of client confidentiality as well: "Hi, you don't know me, but your sister Annie got a reading from me wanting to know why your husband is suddenly hitting on her, so of course your name came up. Can I get your permission to put the reading on my blog/youtube/insta?" It's highly unlikely that the subject(s) of such a reading would ever figure it out. They might not even see it at all, card reading is very niche. And the people who are not part of said niche overwhelmingly consider it to be a crock anyway. And while IME it's clearly NOT a crock, it's not infallible, either. The little grain of salt should always be present. So no harm, no foul. 9 hours ago, JoyousGirl said: How do we know how good and accurate a reader's skills are if they can't be tested for accuracy? This sort of uploading on Youtube means you need courage to be wrong - because it's there for all to see. The reader may get nothing right. Exactly. We need to stick our necks out and read on coming election results, sports, celeb gossip, true crime and the like. The great fortunetellers were NOT doing advice readings or readings about the sitter's feelings! Mlle. Lenormand It's wise to exercise caution if under a fascist regime, of course. Madame de Thebes 9 hours ago, JoyousGirl said: I'm thinking that Rick is doing this for predictive purposes - and accuracy would be the marketing point. My thinking is that if we share readings foretelling about ourselves there's no way for an observer to check that they were accurate. Yes and yes. 8 hours ago, JoyousGirl said: People are interested in other people, for whatever reason. We don't have to watch Rick's show if we don't agree, but going by that, neither then should we ever talk about anyone else when they are not present. Or is that taking it too far? There absolutely should NOT be one rule for reading cards and another for everyone and everything else. To talk about people who are not present but view reading about other people as unethical strikes me as terribly hypocritical. If you're not a sociopath and your moral compass points more or less north, you know that the crux of this issue is motivation. If malice is the intent of the question, it's not ethical. But truly malicious questions are few and far between. Edited January 3 by katrinka
gregory Posted January 3 Posted January 3 10 hours ago, JoyousGirl said: That means that the exchanges we do here on TTM are private and visible only to the people involved in the exchange. By signing up here we are tacitly accepting that the readings we do here are visible to others. And - we are not, as individuals identifiable in the same way as the Melon Husk is. 10 hours ago, JoyousGirl said: Taking it further, should those exchanges be provided by private message? [ETA this should probably be the course going forward if private readings being put out to the public are a no-no.] See above. 10 hours ago, JoyousGirl said: If people are in the public eye, and have lots of power and impact on others, I think there's a social responsibility to keep them in check. There's also an opportunity, like with Astrology, to show that Tarot is not just BS, but actually works. You can't do that effectively just by putting it about on a blog or a video. Also - how does doing a reading that says - say - that someone will cause massive disruption to society in any way "keep them in check" ? 10 hours ago, JoyousGirl said: How do we know how good and accurate a reader's skills are if they can't be tested for accuracy? This sort of uploading on Youtube means you need courage to be wrong - because it's there for all to see. The reader may get nothing right. From experience and personal recommendation. We also - don't forget - don't know that the reader putting it about on youtube is telling the truth about what they got from the cards. It's easy to find information that makes it possible to predict things without reference to anything but someone's past history, and some of what is predicted that way will always appear to be spot on. Yes there are responsible readers whose readings could be of mass usefulness - but there are far more who are far from accurate and whose readings would be best kept very private. I'm out though - this is not an area of discussion where I fit !
JoyousGirl Posted January 3 Posted January 3 17 minutes ago, gregory said: From experience and personal recommendation. If Rick's using it as a marketing tool to get customers, which much of Social Media is used for these days, then that doesn't really help. 46 minutes ago, gregory said: We also - don't forget - don't know that the reader putting it about on youtube is telling the truth about what they got from the cards. It's easy to find information that makes it possible to predict things without reference to anything but someone's past history, and some of what is predicted that way will always appear to be spot on. What would be the point of Rick reading on a public interest topic when we can all see the cards and he explains why he's getting whatever he's getting from the cards? This seems to be an issue of confirmation bias, whereby a person's complexes that decide people are doing or will do something, means that is all you see them doing - and that you'd never see their reading was accurate and legitimate even if it was. Uneducated opinionated Tarot sceptics abound. 47 minutes ago, gregory said: Yes there are responsible readers whose readings could be of mass usefulness - but there are far more who are far from accurate and whose readings would be best kept very private. How do we know whose would be of mass usefulness if they shut themselves up in the attic and didn't read - or only read on approved topics? The suggestion only responsible people should share is a bit of a value judgement IMO. Who defines responsible? I'm astounded as to why inaccurate readings should be kept private? I've seen dodgy readers/psychics testimonials - and that would be resolved by readings being proven in a public space. I'm all for robust debate that would arise from a reading on someone like Musk (for those interested in him). Many people will run back and forth and knowledge will be increased.
DanielJUK Posted January 3 Posted January 3 14 hours ago, JoyousGirl said: That means that the exchanges we do here on TTM are private and visible only to the people involved in the exchange. Taking it further, should those exchanges be provided by private message? [ETA this should probably be the course going forward if private readings being put out to the public are a no-no.] Just to say, please don't actually do this. It's against the forum rules to have private exchanges. The reading areas on the forum here are a semi-closed wall, a monitored and moderated environment. They are not public on the internet and you need a certain amount of posts before you can take part or see them. We will step in if someone doesn't complete their side or offer feedback or disrespects their partner (has happened but rarely). Also we would take action against members who shared readings from here outside the forum. We want a safe learning environment where people can practice and learn in peace. I am not sure it is a good comparison with posting on a personal blog or YouTube channel, posting content there is your own choice. What you post is your own decision. We all have different ethical boundaries and lines about what we feel comfortable with. It's possible with privacy to have a pseudonym account on here and on YouTube, however it's important to remember all internet websites log information each time you visit or post a reading. We wouldn't allow reading on named celebs here but on Youtube, it's your own risk. If you name someone and they make a complaint and your content gets removed, your channel gets banned or there are legal threats, that's your own risk within the rules of that website / app. There are legal take-downs from very rich people all the time. Something to consider in the details of the discussion. Personally I wouldn't post any readings publicly with allegations or rumours against anyone.
Misterei Posted January 3 Posted January 3 On 1/1/2025 at 4:38 AM, RickInBakersfield said: My question is do you believe it's okay to do a reading for someone who is in the public eye like a politician or a celebrity...even though they don't know you? ... I've always avoided questions that have always invaded other people's privacy...questions like "Does Johnny love me?" I would always reframe those type of questions for the sitter. Apples and Oranges. Public figures are fair game. They've CHOSEN a public life. Musk, Trump, et al THRIVE on attention and mention of their names. They are giant vampires and it feeds them. Private individuals? They have NOT chosen a public life. Then again, if I never read on *does X really love me?* I would lose about 50% of my business. I don't encourage romantic obsession on some person who doesn't even know you exist -- because that's psychic stalking. I don't read that type of situation other than to encourage the client to move on. BUT if X is in a relationship with my client Y ... and Y is confused about mixed signals from X ... this is fair game b/c it directly affects Y's life. On 1/1/2025 at 4:38 AM, RickInBakersfield said: Would I be out of line to do a YouTube video on a political figure (a three-card spread like Issue/Action/Outcome), even if I don't know the person? There are whole YT channels devoted to this. You would be one of many. Per above, politicians and figures like Musk are vampires. They feed on public attention. On 1/1/2025 at 10:50 PM, JoyousGirl said: There would be nuance. If you are a reader who is interested in foretelling the future, then you are showing your skills by reading for someone in the public eye that can actually be referred to - did it come true or not? Wishy washy readings that don't really say anything definite isn't going to cut it. People want to say "he said that was going to happen!" Exactly. If you want to show your audience that you make accurate predictions -- you might have to read on public figures and public events in one way or another. It's nuanced how you do it. On 1/2/2025 at 5:01 AM, katrinka said: I don't see any issue with reading on celebs/public figures. Part of fame is giving up certain expectations of privacy, and the public is, well, nuts. Before Kate Middleton revealed her cancer diagnosis, everybody was questioning her disappearance from the public eye. ... This touches upon the nuance. The salacious gossip factor for public figures what aren't necessarily courting the Public Eye [like Kate Middleton's health] is personally distasteful to me. But it *is* popular, so it might get hits. And there is a certain moral weighing-- people who are fabulously rich & famous lead very different lives than the poor & obscure. If their feelings get hurt from media attention they have private jets to fly them to private resorts and get daily massages to overcome the stress of it all. If a regular person is attacked by an on-line mob or ugly gossip--that person may suffer terrible real world consequences b/c they don't have the money to insulate them. They get fired from their job and can't pay rent. They dont have daily massages, high end psychologists, and luxury detox centers if they're driven to drink, drugs, or s^icide attempt from the pain of unwanted attention or false accusations. Meanwhile, there are plenty of public figures who *DO* court public attention, so you hardly harm them by giving them exactly what they want.
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