Directonality.. Auspicious, inauspicious.. And GT

[Lovebird]

Hello ☺️

Well I became very interested in kipper cards .. And would like to know your approach on certain things. Any help would be appreciated. 

How do you understand directonality in kipper? Like for example, there are cards that portray movement, but is it always important to take the direction? Like journey 10 goes up? And I have to link it with the card above? Or the card 35 from below to left? 😵‍💫 Is it always like that?

There are cards of cause and effect too, to interpret them do you see the surrounding cards? 

 

And what are your thoughts about auspicious or inauspicious cards? Or do you see what's behind the character, as past OR as something inauspicious ? 

 

About the GT there seem to be many ways to interpret it.. Have you found a way that suits you? There isn't much information around but I find this oracle very interesting 

 

[katrinka]

We have tons of Kipper threads here. I think most of your questions have already been answered. It's worthwhile to check them out!

https://www.thetarotforum.com/search/?&q=kipper&search_and_or=or

 

 

Edited March 31 by katrinka

[Lovebird]

5 hours ago, katrinka said:

We have tons of Kipper threads here. I think most of your questions have already been answered. It's worthwhile to check them out!

https://www.thetarotforum.com/search/?&q=kipper&search_and_or=or

 

 

Thank you for your reply

I read them yes before posting this, weeks ago or months perhaps even and many times you mention that not all cards have directionality, that you don't agree with Toni Puhle approach specially when talking about stop cards so, what cards show directonality for you? For example the card theft, do you take it as what is taken comes from the right and is placed to the left. I know you mention the loss can be recovered if this card appears in front of the main character, but generally speaking when not close to the main card? Or what about the card gift? And when the direction the card shows, is empty, would you take it as something that still is unknown? 

 

About the GT I have seen some pics, posted by you.. From Hildegard Leiding book, and also of the archive and are quite helpful for me, thanks a lot for that, but I still  have doubts. What is seen in the back or behind the main character is simply past, that has already happened , or like in your blog meanings of the cards it is something not auspicious, but still present in the present life of the querent? . If you have some examples of a GT reading it would be very useful.

Edited March 31 by Lovebird

[katrinka]

6 hours ago, Lovebird said:

I know you mention the loss can be recovered if this card appears in front of the main character, but generally speaking when not close to the main card?

If it's not close, it's not an issue at present. Same as Lenormand, for example when the Tree is distant from the Significator there aren't any health worries.
 

6 hours ago, Lovebird said:

what cards show directonality for you? For example the card theft, do you take it as what is taken comes from the right and is placed to the left. I know you mention the loss can be recovered if this card appears in front of the main character, but generally speaking when not close to the main card? Or what about the card gift? And when the direction the card shows, is empty, would you take it as something that still is unknown? 

 

6 hours ago, Lovebird said:

What is seen in the back or behind the main character is simply past, that has already happened , or like in your blog meanings of the cards it is something not auspicious, but still present in the present life of the querent? . If you have some examples of a GT reading it would be very useful.

That's a lot of questions, and a lot of work to answer them all. You're essentially asking me to write a course or a book for no pay.

You have to find what works, just like all the rest of us did.

[Lovebird]

37 minutes ago, katrinka said:

If it's not close, it's not an issue at present. Same as Lenormand, for example when the Tree is distant from the Significator there aren't any health worries.
 

 

That's a lot of questions, and a lot of work to answer them all. You're essentially asking me to write a course or a book for no pay.

You have to find what works, just like all the rest of us did.

 

 

A course for no pay? Simply for asking what approach you have about certain things, and since you even have a blog wouldnt have been too strange to find GT examples, like people do with tarot. And, in fact Im researching a lot about this topic and it's ok if you don't feel like answering, I'll keep researching like I have, but forums often are places where people can talk about topics, ask questions etc, I miss some good people that were in Aeclectic Tarot.. Hope they're well. If I get to have a good understanding of kipper after reading a lot I'll try to be helpful with people that are learning ☺️. 

 

Thank you still for the example of lenormand, some people don't really see lenormand as similar to kipper. 

[RunningWild]

More than a couple of people have suggested @katrinka write a book.  That said, she did a lot of research and translating from German on her own.  That all takes a lot of time.  She visited German forums, too.  You might also consider doing that.  There are few resources in English but I have Puhle’s Rainbow Kipper and her other Kipper deck.  I also invested in The Card Geek’s Guide to Kipper.  It’s a worthwhile purchase in my opinion.  

 

And all of that said…a card can show a situation that is ongoing in an inauspicious position.  In an auspicious position but far from the MC, it’s something that may or may not happen.  It always depends on the location of the MC to the other card.  But nothing in life exists in isolation, so you have to look to see what’s surrounding a problematic card.

[Lovebird]

3 hours ago, RunningWild said:

More than a couple of people have suggested @katrinka write a book.  That said, she did a lot of research and translating from German on her own.  That all takes a lot of time.  She visited German forums, too.  You might also consider doing that.  There are few resources in English but I have Puhle’s Rainbow Kipper and her other Kipper deck.  I also invested in The Card Geek’s Guide to Kipper.  It’s a worthwhile purchase in my opinion.  

 

And all of that said…a card can show a situation that is ongoing in an inauspicious position.  In an auspicious position but far from the MC, it’s something that may or may not happen.  It always depends on the location of the MC to the other card.  But nothing in life exists in isolation, so you have to look to see what’s surrounding a problematic card.

Thank you for your reply ☺️ I appreciate it. 

🤔So the distance makes a big difference, like the impact of that card lessens, specially in bigger spreads then. I find the GT fascinating, I don't want to get confused with too much information but I feel that knowing different approaches is good. To realize what works for me. And even in German.. There arent that many books, but Im in that journey of learning because I love learning. 

 

You are right the geeks guide is a really valuable book, also Toni posted some great videos about the way she reads, but then...the way she connects cards is very different from other readers.., and I, looking forward to know how other readers take this system, I've seen very different approaches,that's why I wanted to know the understanding of other readers here. ☺️ I've ordered some books about it in German, it will be interesting to know what they say and the similarities or differences. 😍

Edited March 31 by Lovebird

[RunningWild]

Everyone has to start somewhere.  I wish you luck in your journey.

[joy]

Hey @Lovebird just my 2 cents on this part:

2 hours ago, Lovebird said:

 

You are right the geeks guide is a really valuable book, also Toni posted some great videos about the way she reads, but then...the way she connects cards is very different from other readers.., and I, looking forward to know how other readers take this system, I've seen very different approaches,that's why I wanted to know the understanding of other readers here. ☺️ I've ordered some books about it in German, it will be interesting to know what they say and the similarities or differences. 😍

 

What I learned with a systems is, that there are always different approaches. This is very confusing of course especially at the beginning. Best is, in my opinion, to stick with one reader until you have the basics. Then explore others.

[Lovebird]

15 minutes ago, joy said:

Hey @Lovebird just my 2 cents on this part:

 

What I learned with a systems is, that there are always different approaches. This is very confusing of course especially at the beginning. Best is, in my opinion, to stick with one reader until you have the basics. Then explore others.

Thank you and wow yes Ive seen that, but something they always have in common with the GT are where the houses are placed. 😅 

Thank you for your kind advice,  the basis like the meanings Im familiar but it feels there's so much to learn, but yes one step at a time. 

I guess it's like with tarot, that some people read reversals, others not, or use more or less cards in spreads etc. 

1 hour ago, RunningWild said:

Everyone has to start somewhere.  I wish you luck in your journey.

Thank you for your kind words 

[MlleTemperance]

Hi @Lovebird, I've known Kipper for maybe 2-3 years now but I haven't done many readings with it since then. More recently I started reading more on the topic (thanks to this forum and its resources). I think the GT is quite intimidating for a beginner, so personally I started with more simple readings (focus card in the center, then adding 4 cards to build a cross), just to get more familiar with the meanings and directonality of the cards. A few weeks ago I decided I would give the GT a go and see how it feels. I stumbled upon this method where, starting from the main focus/character card, you read only a few of the lines (horizontally, vertically and diagonally). I know this reading may not be complete, but I feel like it's a little more accessible for me until I get more experienced and take it to the next step. Here is a video that shows this method (it's in French though). At the moment I like to combine this method with the one you can find here. Hope this helps 🙂 

 

By the way, is there any Kipper readings exchange on the forum? I saw people offering them but not exchanging them as they do with Tarot or Lenormand. Maybe that would be a fun way for beginners to practice and learn ?

Edited April 4 by MlleTemperance

[Lovebird]

1 hour ago, MlleTemperance said:

Hi @Lovebird, I've known Kipper for maybe 2-3 years now but I haven't done many readings with it since then. More recently I started reading more on the topic (thanks to this forum and its resources). I think the GT is quite intimidating for a beginner, so personally I started with more simple readings (focus card in the center, then adding 4 cards to build a cross), just to get more familiar with the meanings and directonality of the cards. A few weeks ago I decided I would give the GT a go and see how it feels. I stumbled upon this method where, starting from the main focus/character card, you read only a few of the lines (horizontally, vertically and diagonally). I know this reading may not be complete, but I feel like it's a little more accessible for me until I get more experienced and take it to the next step. Here is a video that shows this method (it's in French though). At the moment I like to combine this method with the one you can find here. Hope this helps 🙂 

 

By the way, is there any Kipper readings exchange on the forum? I saw people offering them but not exchanging them as they do with Tarot or Lenormand. Maybe that would be a fun way for beginners to practice and learn ?

Hi Mllle thank you for replying, I truly appreciate it ☺️☺️☺️🙏🙏

That is a very good way for anyone to beggin getting familiar with this oracle, the cross, or the 3 card reading or 1 card like card of the day. 

 

And What a wonderful video about the GT 😍 thanks for sharing, it being in French isn't a problem and in any other language thanks to YouTube translator 🥰🥰🥰 .He explains really well covering  the surrounding cards, at some point I had thought that all the columns where the main person card look at where their future 🫣🙈 what a mess Hahah. 

 

You are right, it IS intimidating specially because it uses all the cards, but his approach is one that I recently have found other readers have as well, with just focusing on the lines directly connected to the main person and diagonals.

Also the 4 corner cards are really important and then checking the houses, but not all of them just the ones that are important for us, like can give some extra information. For me, since the cards have numbers,I check the number card to know the house and Interpret the combination with the card that landed there. 

 

This video

https://youtu.be/Nf6ubhj3aug?si=0_6yonyZINloVCE2

was also quite helpful for me (german) about the kipper GT and I asked the person that made the video a few things which made me happy she clarified😍. You may want to check it out as well. She used the mirror techniques as well. Her approach seems similar to the one of the archive and also in many ways similar to the video you shared . 

What I noticed is that she sees part of what is behind the main character as past, not as something inauspicious but interpret them with the normal meanings (btw the inauspicious cards, apart from those of the main characters when they are back to back , remind me a lot of tarot reversals.. So maybe it just depends on the person if wants to interpret them different )

 

I hope there will be a section like that or already exist , would be very fun 🥰

 

Have you read any kipper books? I have read Alexandr Musruck and Toni Puhle books. Mmm I dont know but Toni so much movement with the directions or connections reminds me of some boarding game, interesting still but I feel I want to keep reasearching to know what I take for me, for example... The gift card, the gift goes from up to down, but I feel that it can link sometimes to cards that have nothing to do much with the situation, specially in a GT... 

 

Thanks again really 🩵

 

 

 

 

[MlleTemperance]

5 hours ago, Lovebird said:

at some point I had thought that all the columns where the main person card look at where their future 🫣🙈

 

This is in line with what you can find on the german website I referred to, so you wouldn't be wrong 🙃 but you can allow yourself to try different methods to see what works best for you. It's all intuition games after all! 

 

5 hours ago, Lovebird said:

Also the 4 corner cards are really important and then checking the houses,

 

Right. I find the Lenormand and Kipper have more than a few similarities, and there is much more information available on the Lenormand systems (in English anyway). Have you heard of Iris Treppner before? If not, maybe this would give you some more information on different reading styles (houses, corners, mirroring, story lines, etc.). I personally think it is not the best to try it all at once (it gets confusing in my opinion), but having these general notions in mind can help "problem solve" the GT sometimes.

 

5 hours ago, Lovebird said:

I hope there will be a section like that or already exist

 

Maybe we can start one 🙂 

 

5 hours ago, Lovebird said:

Have you read any kipper books?

 

Yes, I have read the same books as you. They both give you a sense of what the cards are about and how to start reading them, but Toni Puhle and Alexandre Musruck aren't my favourites and here is why:

 

- I don't like it when people claim there is A way to read a specific system; I prefer when you are taught the basics and allowed to follow what feels right for you afterwards. If there was one best way to do it, then we would all come to the same answers/conclusions... Toni gives me the "wrong vibe" in that sense. And yes, a loooot of motion with her reading style 😅 I haven't found that necessary nor helpful so far.

 

- I have read Musruck's Lenormand book and his Kipper booklet (the one that comes with the deck, I think this might be a French edition only). I find that more than 50% of his books are cue words for combinations of cards... but this can be quite repetitive. For example, the combination for card #1 looking at #7,  and #7 in front of #1 are the same and both are included in the book, so I find it somewhat useless. I think they are more of a "cheat sheet" than an actual reference. I would rather have more information on the origins of the system, a deeper description of each card or a thorough description of one or two spreads than a quick overview of 5 different spreads. In the end, I usually feel like I didn't get much out of his content, enven though the book is over 100 pages.

Edited April 4 by MlleTemperance

[DanielJUK]

21 hours ago, MlleTemperance said:

By the way, is there any Kipper readings exchange on the forum? I saw people offering them but not exchanging them as they do with Tarot or Lenormand. Maybe that would be a fun way for beginners to practice and learn ?

 

This Kipper area is under the Cartomancy section - https://www.thetarotforum.com/forums/forum/69-cartomancy/

There is a Your Readings (for anyone to post a reading to get help with, please interpret it yourself first) and Card Exchanges where members can offer readings. Feedback always has to be given in exchange.

There is no ongoing kipper exchange but we can create one if anyone has any ideas for it.

This area is for Kippers, Playing Cards, any cartomancy apart tarot, oracles and Lenormand, who have their own sections 🙂 

[Lovebird]

14 hours ago, MlleTemperance said:

 

This is in line with what you can find on the german website I referred to, so you wouldn't be wrong 🙃 but you can allow yourself to try different methods to see what works best for you. It's all intuition games after all! 

 

 

Right. I find the Lenormand and Kipper have more than a few similarities, and there is much more information available on the Lenormand systems (in English anyway). Have you heard of Iris Treppner before? If not, maybe this would give you some more information on different reading styles (houses, corners, mirroring, story lines, etc.). I personally think it is not the best to try it all at once (it gets confusing in my opinion), but having these general notions in mind can help "problem solve" the GT sometimes.

 

 

Maybe we can start one 🙂 

 

 

Yes, I have read the same books as you. They both give you a sense of what the cards are about and how to start reading them, but Toni Puhle and Alexandre Musruck aren't my favourites and here is why:

 

- I don't like it when people claim there is A way to read a specific system; I prefer when you are taught the basics and allowed to follow what feels right for you afterwards. If there was one best way to do it, then we would all come to the same answers/conclusions... Toni gives me the "wrong vibe" in that sense. And yes, a loooot of motion with her reading style 😅 I haven't found that necessary nor helpful so far.

 

- I have read Musruck's Lenormand book and his Kipper booklet (the one that comes with the deck, I think this might be a French edition only). I find that more than 50% of his books are cue words for combinations of cards... but this can be quite repetitive. For example, the combination for card #1 looking at #7,  and #7 in front of #1 are the same and both are included in the book, so I find it somewhat useless. I think they are more of a "cheat sheet" than an actual reference. I would rather have more information on the origins of the system, a deeper description of each card or a thorough description of one or two spreads than a quick overview of 5 different spreads. In the end, I usually feel like I didn't get much out of his content, enven though the book is over 100 pages.

Oh wow haha I wouldn't have thought I was in track with the German site, hahaha 🤭 with the missing pictures is hard to know 🤭

I just noticed noticed  that Toni says always there isn't "past" in a GT, because it depends on the question if it's a future, or present question then the inauspicious cards would make a lot of sense 

 

 

It will be interesting for me to see the lenormand GT, It's the first time I get into a big spread. 

 

Thank you for your opinions about both books.

I agree, Musruck book is like a cheat sheet 😂, reminds me a lot of that book Tarot combinations that I ended up leaving behind soon when I was just starting 😁, at least the 288 book has the meanings of each card, but it's clear for him only the people cards have directonality, incluiding there the militar and the false person... both authors show the way they deal the GT and some spreads 

 

I agree with you about Toni book about she making it seem like the only, CORRECT way . The foreword insist that Toni method is the traditional, because it is originated in Bavaria 🤔🤔 🤔🤔 where she learned 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 On the positive side It has more depth with the meanings, regarding many topics, and something I quite liked was the comparison of some cards that seem similar. When it comes to the cards meanings Toni Puhle explainins really well, leaving behind the movement thing that is just TOO much. 🎶Left, right, up, down 🎶haha like those songs 🙈🙈 and sorry I tend to laugh a lot about randomness 🫣

 

So all in all I think both are very different, and can be useful for different people but that Toni explainins better but seems more complicated, .  So for someone that just doesn't want to get into something too complicated or simple Alexander seems easier I think with his set of combinations.. As a reference.. Not much directonality.. Like something very simple.

 

This topic is interesting I would love sharing spreads and exchages etc practice is important it would be really fun if we do it 😍

 

 

 

 

[MlleTemperance]

10 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

There is no ongoing kipper exchange but we can create one if anyone has any ideas for it.

 

Thank you @DanielJUK ! I get a little lost around the forum at times 😅 because there is so much going on here!

 

I will be participating in a reading exchange for the first time this month so I don't feel like I could "host" one just yet. How about you @Lovebird ? 

[Lovebird]

34 minutes ago, MlleTemperance said:

 

Thank you @DanielJUK ! I get a little lost around the forum at times 😅 because there is so much going on here!

 

I will be participating in a reading exchange for the first time this month so I don't feel like I could "host" one just yet. How about you @Lovebird ? 

😳Host one 😳? I need to get more used to the forum dynamics hehe when I feel comfortable I will, maybe later this month ☺️ 

[MlleTemperance]

47 minutes ago, Lovebird said:

I need to get more used to the forum dynamics

 

Of course! See you around then 😉

[Lovebird]

After some months researching about these cards, reading German books as well I found out some interesting things :

-Directonality isn't something used by everyone with these cards, I found most authors dont really care about it. Also the auspicious and auspicious term seems to be something not quite known or used by other German readerS. 

-About the GT there are different methods, it looks like the houses method is something widely applied with these cards, and well I think Toni has a great method leaving behind the confusing direction parts, but then those parts can be useful for some and it's up to the reader but definitely isn't something that needs to be done exactly in the way she does. 

So anyway I hope that more books are written about kipper 💝. I recommend the book Das Geheimnis der Kipperkarten band 2 by Ingo Michael Simon (which talks about the GT in detail mostly, the number 1 is about the cards meanings but I recommend the 2 specially because it focuses on the gt, others books I read where rather vague about it ) I feel Toni Puhle book is very valuable as well when it comes to the card meanings for everyone and if you want to apply the directonality cues  it is up to you 😊. So all in all, it was great to explore other methods. 

[akiva]

11 hours ago, Lovebird said:

I recommend the book Das Geheimnis der Kipperkarten band 2 by Ingo Michael Simon (which talks about the GT in detail mostly, the number 1 is about the cards meanings but I recommend the 2 specially because it focuses on the gt, others books I read where rather vague about it )

Thanks for this recommendation, Amazon has a Kindle edition, and it'll be great to have some kipper books on my phone for on the go! 😄