how do you know?

[Guest]

How do you know the meaning of a card?

 

Did you memorize the first LWB you came across? Read stacks of books? Practice magick? just believe what people told you? Learn the basic components of the card itself and discern the meaning for your self? Just look at the pictures and go with that?

 

What gives you the certainty that you aren't just guessing, or grabbing ideas out of the air?

 

 

[Albadawn]

Ooh, I love this question! :D It's a question I've often asked myself. My main method is to consider imagery and what that sparks in my intuition, followed up by elemental and numerological associations. I know this works because of the feedback I get from my readings - and I mainly read online, by distance, with just a username and a question to go on.

 

So I guess for me it's a case of my own experience confirming that my method works about 95% of the time. That's how I know it works.

 

Why it works, I haven't the foggiest. ;D

[dancing_moon]

Personally, it's a mix of basic meanings plus context plus practice plus feedback. My first readings were more like reading with a dictionary in a language you're just beginning to learn: I looked up every card in the LWB and tried to figure out what it meant for this particular question. With lots of practice, the meanings and nuances of cards have been expanding and sticking in my memory by themselves. And the confidence usually comes from coherency of the reading itself (not always the case, though) and subsequent feedback from the sitter. So it's a vote of trust most of the time (unless I'm reading for myself, of course). :)

 

Thanks for a thought-provoking question, whatsawhosit! Interesting to know how you (and others) do it. :)

[faerybraids]

Honestly, I'm mainly an intuitive reader, so I just go with my gut for most of it. I know I'm doing well when it just feels right. ^^;; I'm a hugely visual person, and the decks I'm drawn to usually feature non-traditional depictions of the cards, so my intuition is really my best measure of judgement. I feel it's an extra vote of confidence when what I read intuitively while learning the deck matches up with the LWB--perhaps less helpful with teeny ones like my Royo Dark Mini's, but hugely helpful with, for example, my Starchild Akashic's guidebook, where there are vivid descriptions of the cards compared to the former. (In Kiki Lala's case I literally just go with my gut because the cards are so well laid out and I can't read Japanese proficiently enough to use the guidebook yet, but I'm probably also pulling on RWS research that's hidden in my brain.) So far I've gotten good reviews from the people I've read for, too, which just cements my belief that going with my gut works at least most of the time.

 

I do research as well, though, but because the decks I'm drawn to are largely non-traditional decks I have to taken everything with more salt because so many sources are so locked to traditional RWS imagery that the meanings just don't resonate with me or my decks. But, like Lisa Boswell pointed out in her court cards workshop, intuition comes as much from what you know as it does from just staring at the cards: your brain is constantly melding things together so you'll know which interpretations to use based on the experience and knowledge stored there. I've been surprised by some of the interpretations I've pulled more recently for certain cards before realising exactly where I had gotten them from. Clearly some of what I had thought was irrelevant to my earlier deck is relevant to my Starchild Akashic, and likewise I've found other things that apply vice versa. It's like when I used to thumb through books for uni papers--regardless of whether the information in a book was already in my head or not my brain would be able to say 'yes, this could help', 'nope, nothing there' or 'maybe, it's worth a read-through just to make sure' based on past experiences and knowledge, and that would help determine whether I used the book as a reference or not. With tarot it just seems to happen on an even more subconscious level, and usually much quicker, too.

 

When something clicks it just clicks, I guess. I could probably read a RWS deck if I tried, but despite my knowledge of it it still probably wouldn't come as easily as if I was using a deck I really connected with. I'd be thinking more instead of it just coming to me, and I find overthinking's where I make my mistakes.

[Starlight]

I got my first deck in 2001 and it's only now that I feel I have both the life experience and the experience with the RWS imagery to be comfortable interpreting the cards. It is very definitely a journey, learning Tarot. I've read a lot of books; I read cards and look for different interpretations from different sources, I relate what I'm seeing in the card and feeling in the card to my life and look for the overlaps. I do the monthly reading challenges here - and they've been a huge help in feeling more confident as well.

 

Reading Tarot is intuitive, but it's also grounded in experience, which only comes with time.

 

Dusty White has written a workbook showing how to relate each card to your own life experiences so that the cards' meanings are clear to you each time you see them. I haven't gone through the whole book yet, but what I have skimmed through looked good. If you're looking for a resource to bring you up to speed in good time, this might be worth looking at. :)

[Guest]

I am not so sure tarot needs to be led by intuition.

 

I just read the cards. It is during the shuffle as I meditate upon the subject matter that answer is created. It is actually an entirely new meditation sometimes for me not to be too free and intuitive but to honestly read the cards.

 

At first I sat about with The Sacred Tarot, The Doctrine of Transcendental Magic, and a couple other obscure writings and I  compiled a notebook of the meanings of the cards. This proved cumbersome checking in a notebook all the time so I created my deck of cards with all of those notes on them....

 

this has been going on for many years now, and I have studied the mechanics and structure of many decks for learning and fun as well. So I am that memorize it and figure out how it works kind of person. :)

 

[Starlight]

I am not so sure tarot needs to be led by intuition.

 

Intuition guides the meaning you choose for the cards related to the querent's issue, is what I meant. :)

 

ETA: Last night there was a bushfire pretty close to home. Not too close, but near enough. People within the vicinity of the fires were told to leave their homes. I drew one card in answer to the question "What do I need to know about this fire and how it affects us?" I got The Chariot. For me, worried, the Chariot meant 'car' - as in, get ready to leave in your car.

 

This morning I realised The Chariot was more about the Fireys getting everything under control. (I drew an oracle card last night that basically reiterated this message of everything being under control, so I didn't leave with my family.)

 

Intuition - never at its best when stressed - would hone in on which of the two meanings to use. :)

[DanielJUK]

When I was learning tarot as a beginner, I was desperately trying to memorise each card and also learn keywords for each card. I think having a basic understanding of it's meaning and what the picture means is useful but when you try to memorise books and passages about a card, it's unhelpful! Looking at the picture and seeing how it applies really gives the best readings for me!

 

From my experience just looking at the card and saying what you see or feel or sense (any of the 5 senses) is not a guess, it normally fits in the reading! But I think practice and experience helps you to know!

 

Ultimately I think my memorising more than the basic structure of each card has been unhelpful long term!

[Starlight]

How do you know the meaning of a card?

 

Did you memorize the first LWB you came across? Read stacks of books? Practice magick? just believe what people told you? Learn the basic components of the card itself and discern the meaning for your self? Just look at the pictures and go with that?

 

What gives you the certainty that you aren't just guessing, or grabbing ideas out of the air?

 

I've just finished watching a reply of Lisa Boswell's webinar from last Saturday about getting to grips with tarot card meanings and here are the tips she offered:

 

1. Create an overview of the meanings of the cards (works for minors and courts) - use numerology and suit meanings. This will give you a basic meaning in stressful circumstances.

 

2. Match the energy of the card to the interpretation - in this case she suggested that if the energy you pick up from the card does not match what most guidebooks consider the meaning, it might be worth looking at other tarot systems to see what their interpretations are. Her example was the Etteilla, and she has a guidbook on her site which explains what each card in that system of tarot means. (e.g. Star = theft)

 

3. Relate the feelings in the card to an incident or event in your life.

 

4. Come up with both positive and negative meanings for each card, so that they're easier to understand in particular positions in spreads.

 

5. Be comfortable with uncertain outcomes, or outcomes that aren't clear at the end of the reading. She suggests that a reading usually looks at 6 weeks ahead at a time (it does for her) and it may be that in 6 weeks there still isn't an outcome. Or simply that the outcome is not yet known. (Perhaps the querent has to act in some way first.)

 

HTH. :)

[The Sibyl]

I have learnt most of what I know by screwing up a LOT  ::) then in hindsight I said "Oooooh... It was right before your eyes, you silly!" Except I probably didn't say silly, but worse xD

 

I started reading back in the day with the meanings of my first LWB, of course I've read mountains and practiced a lot since then, and today I don't think that my meanings have a lot to do with that LWB I started with. A thing that I have found quite useful to help with certainty, is not only paying attention to the readings in hindsight, but also being very consistent with the meanings, this way, I know that there's a "code" so to speak between the cards and I, and that the message will come up in the way I understand it. If this makes any sense!

[Guest]

...A thing that I have found quite useful to help with certainty, is not only paying attention to the readings in hindsight, but also being very consistent with the meanings, this way, I know that there's a "code" so to speak between the cards and I, and that the message will come up in the way I understand it. If this makes any sense!

 

WOW!!! yes!!! this is so important!!! I got the warm fuzzies reading this.

 

A person doesn't use intuition when they are reading a sentence, "....hmm what does this word mean? I will just make something up, that looks like a  happy word...," why do they do it when they read tarot?

 

 

[The Sibyl]

A person doesn't use intuition when they are reading a sentence, "....hmm what does this word mean? I will just make something up, that looks like a  happy word...," why do they do it when they read tarot?

 

Right? I like to compare Tarot reading with learning a language, this is part of why I call myself a Tarot snob. Tarot is a language that one learns and has a system. The place for intuition within a Tarot reading is like... Knowing when a verb you've never heard of before is regular or irregular? In a context where you are familiar with a new language, I don't know if I'm making sense.

[Jewel]

When I first started out with tarot I thought there was a right way so I tried reading everything I could and learn a lot about the symbolism.  I took a very academic approach, which frankly just kept me confused and uncertain.  Then I found Aeclectic and probably learned more from that community than any books I had read just interacting with others that worked with the tarot.  I had a pretty good foundation from everything I had read, and then started trusting my intuition and the card imagery to guide me.  After doing 21 Ways to Read a Tarot card I can say I really gained my confidence.  I now read with a combination of acquired book knowledge, imagery, and intuition.

[Whisper]

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

 

So, I look at the card, read the card because it is a text like any other that can be read based on our experience of life, our understanding of symbolism and the network of correlations we have built up over time. Then I look at what the author wrote. Most of the time it makes sense with what I observed. Then, yes, perhaps what comes to me subsequently is plucked out of the air, but I like to think it is intuition because it comes to me like all the other promptings of my intuition in my daily life. Collective subconscious? Jungian synchronicity? Tuning in to the invisible "matrix"? The universal energy? All I know is that there is so much that cannot be explained (yet), and I really think that this ability we have comes directly from that. It's a leap of faith, but I know that it is real because I feel it in my ethereal and physical body.

[Guest]

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

 

So, I look at the card, read the card because it is a text like any other that can be read based on our experience of life, our understanding of symbolism and the network of correlations we have built up over time. Then I look at what the author wrote. Most of the time it makes sense with what I observed. Then, yes, perhaps what comes to me subsequently is plucked out of the air, but I like to think it is intuition because it comes to me like all the other promptings of my intuition in my daily life. Collective subconscious? Jungian synchronicity? Tuning in to the invisible "matrix"? The universal energy? All I know is that there is so much that cannot be explained (yet), and I really think that this ability we have comes directly from that. It's a leap of faith, but I know that it is real because I feel it in my ethereal and physical body.

 

I think it is really important that when we speak of intuition we are speaking of the same thing. So please do allow me to describe intuition as I use it in regards to our studies here. Intuition is a very real function that we use to stay alive, it is a leap of information from our unconscious mind to our daily thoughts that we observe. When we have that hunch, that gut feeling, spontaneous idea to overcome an issue we have felt intuition knocking at the door. It is in short the conscious mind observing the the observations of the unconscious mind. The occult definition of Intuition would be something like; intuition - your unconscious mind's thoughts and observations

 

Now lets looks at tarot cards, The tarot card is the device that your intuition is using to communicate with you, not the other way around. We don't use intuition to communicate with the cards...the cards don't shuffle themselves ;)

 

So we have the deck in front of us and we are going to do a reading with it. Intuition is going to inject itself in two places naturally without exertion or effort to answer the question.

 

The first point intuition is active is where the decision is made of the spread, question, and the shuffle. Due to the type of question asked intuition will lead you to decide upon the proper spread and intuition DOES the mechanical shuffling of the deck. It is intuition that stacks the deck in the right order so your cards come out in the proper order in the spread. All the intuitive reading in the world can't change the cards you deal...but the intuition is actually dealing the cards.

 

The second point intuition comes into play is reading to OTHER people. If I asked a question and 10 of swords comes up it won't be necessary to intuit what,"loss of employment," equates to in relation to my question, but it may not be so obvious in doing a reading for someone else, so one may have to let that intuition bubble up and lead you to the proper perspective as it relates to that Quarent.

 

This process, I think of it as a workflow, of divination is what pretty much takes places no matter how we choose to do it. Our unconscious mind leads us around the Ouija board, it swirls the tea leaves, it draws the sticks for the book of changes. When the diviner enters their meditative state and they draw the straw, the cards, etc. this state of mind is like a "letting go," for a minute while the unconscious mind takes control and lets intuition sort the cards in order or draws the right number of straws.

 

....

 

This all brings me to my initial question of "how do you know?

 

The cards become the language you are using to interpret what your unconscious is telling you. How do you know, really? Someone made that deck you are using, what were they thinking? they have created the language you are talking to yourself in...that might be scary actually now that I read it hahaha. The language is limited as well, tarot cards are rather specific, the better decks correspond with astrology, kabbalah , and alchemy to allow for more diverse language and accuracy....but if we are not well versed in those things one can only guess at their implications and meanings

 

[Whisper]

 

I think it is really important that when we speak of intuition we are speaking of the same thing. So please do allow me to describe intuition as I use it in regards to our studies here. Intuition is a very real function that we use to stay alive, it is a leap of information from our unconscious mind to our daily thoughts that we observe. When we have that hunch, that gut feeling, spontaneous idea to overcome an issue we have felt intuition knocking at the door. It is in short the conscious mind observing the the observations of the unconscious mind. The occult definition of Intuition would be something like; intuition - your unconscious mind's thoughts and observations

 

I see intuition as "the ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning".

 

Now lets looks at tarot cards, The tarot card is the device that your intuition is using to communicate with you, not the other way around. We don't use intuition to communicate with the cards...the cards don't shuffle themselves ;)

 

So, when I look at the card and "read" its imagery, what it suggests to me symbolically, etc., I am using my "ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning." Where do I get that ability from? Perhaps it is because of the sum of my experiences, distillation of said experiences, etc. The same way that whatever I conceive a Martian to be, for example, cannot be made up of anything other than elements that are a part of of my experience, even if not ordered in any way that I've ever experienced.

 

So we have the deck in front of us and we are going to do a reading with it. Intuition is going to inject itself in two places naturally without exertion or effort to answer the question.

 

The first point intuition is active is where the decision is made of the spread, question, and the shuffle. Due to the type of question asked intuition will lead you to decide upon the proper spread and intuition DOES the mechanical shuffling of the deck. It is intuition that stacks the deck in the right order so your cards come out in the proper order in the spread. All the intuitive reading in the world can't change the cards you deal...but the intuition is actually dealing the cards.

 

Something is at play when making the decisions, shuffling the deck and laying the cards, but I am not convinced that it's intuition. There is conscious thinking in formulating the question and deciding which spread will answer it best. The actual dealing of the cards is where the unconscious mind takes over, but I do not see it as intuition. Where I see the subconscious understanding (intuition) asserting itself is in our sudden apprehension of the imagery, symbolism and everything else the cards, individually or collectively, suggest to us which allows us to understand the message. That of course, after a good grounding in the shared language of these archetypes. Thus, we have come to agree that the Hermit, for example, means a certain thing like wisdom ensuing from time and experience, or introspection, etc. Perhaps an understanding of that language can be enhanced by our awareness of a better correspondence with astrology, etc. I prefer to examine the language developed by each of the creators of a particular deck. That's why I enjoy amusing myself with so many different ones because, in the end, I still perceive a common language that allows me to perceive what is being said and how it may apply to our reality. This fundamental language has been developed over decades, but it allows for insights derived from what makes up our inner world.

 

The second point intuition comes into play is reading to OTHER people. If I asked a question and 10 of swords comes up it won't be necessary to intuit what,"loss of employment," equates to in relation to my question, but it may not be so obvious in doing a reading for someone else, so one may have to let that intuition bubble up and lead you to the proper perspective as it relates to that Quarent.

 

I agree.

 

This process, I think of it as a workflow, of divination is what pretty much takes places no matter how we choose to do it. Our unconscious mind leads us around the Ouija board, it swirls the tea leaves, it draws the sticks for the book of changes. When the diviner enters their meditative state and they draw the straw, the cards, etc. this state of mind is like a "letting go," for a minute while the unconscious mind takes control and lets intuition sort the cards in order or draws the right number of straws.

 

This, for me, remains the unconscious mind, not unconscious understanding. They are, for me, two different things.

 

....

 

This all brings me to my initial question of "how do you know?

 

If I may, I think because of our unconscious understanding. The same way we are quickly able to decipher situations that spell danger. There are signs and those signs lie both in the imagery of the cards and their common terminology.

 

The cards become the language you are using to interpret what your unconscious is telling you. How do you know, really? Someone made that deck you are using, what were they thinking? they have created the language you are talking to yourself in...that might be scary actually now that I read it hahaha. The language is limited as well, tarot cards are rather specific, the better decks correspond with astrology, kabbalah , and alchemy to allow for more diverse language and accuracy...

 

That language is a common language that we, who Tarot, know and understand. They haven't created that language. They may have taken the language and spun it or interpreted it the way they did, but it remains identifiable to us who have learnt its alphabet.

 

When l look at a Caravaggio or a Kandinsky, I can read it. So can we all, if our aesthetic sensibilities have been trained do so. I don't see it is any different with Tarot, except that there is a common vocabulary that makes it easier and allows for intuitive understanding.

 

Perhaps you will say I am naive, even "uneducated" when it comes to the tools like kabbalah, alchemy, etc. that enhance the accuracy of "Tarot language", and, no doubt, my own readings would profit immensely from my acquisition of these tools, but I still say that it is perfectly possible to accurately read Tarot without them because of this intuitive grasp.

 

...but if we are not well versed in those things one can only guess at their implications and meanings

 

Perhaps you are more knowledgeable than I am, whatsawhosit, and certainly becoming versed in these other esoteric disciplines would provide a definite advantage, but I fear I must disagree with your assertion that without them, we can only guess at the implications and meanings of the cards before us. I am really not convinced of that and believe that it is primarily unconscious understanding, together with the knowledge of an agreed vocabulary that allows us to know that we know what we know when it is laid out before us.

 

I definitely consider you to be better versed in esotericism than I am, so I appreciate you exchanging ideas with me. I have really enjoyed this conversation with you whatsawhosit. [emoji4]

[Guest]

I talk way too much, don't I?

 

intuition is far to deep I believe to define it the way you have. that reads like the dictionary.

 

I see intuition as "the ability to understand something immediately, without the need for conscious reasoning".

 

Intuition is not separated from reason so simply. Everything we think that is not an extreme act of reason i.e. a big math problem  or extreme intuition i.e.  a series of thoughts about how an event will turn out, is a blend of intuition and reason.

 

Intuition because it is unconscious is ALWAYS running, Carl Jung thought it was a 6th sense of sorts, but intuition is just the thoughts of the unconscious mind it seems like a sense because it is always observing.

 

There always are special people here and there that have access to this, they are not the "norm." There are others that sense this dichotomy and find them selves always learning a new thing always searching for a new way, they are triggering a fresh burst of intuition by approaching something new and un-experienced so far (almost drug like bursts of feeling can come with intuition, think of free rock climbing). By and far most people don't notice anything and it is a beautiful blend of memories, conditioning, intuition, desires/feelings, and current environmental stuff that creates our thoughts. The mechanism that connect intuition and reason and blends them also filters and there are many safe guards built into it to trick you into not taking control of it...which is why we have tarot cards and other divination tools to snatch that info across that divide and read it.

 

Shivani I have a feeling you are one of the very very few people that are of the first two types, for no other reason that you read every word I said and replied so thoughtfully, I am truly honored

 

 

There is actually a specific tarot card (three actually) and astrological sign  (gemini the sign of thinking and thoughts) and faces ( the three decans of gemini refer to Intuition, Fidelity, and Reason) that describes these relationships between intuition and reason and the method that they communicate or blend with one another, better than anyone else ever could.

 

I am actually working on those cards now for my deck. :) and I am having a heck of a time with the fidelity one....it is really interesting we are in this conversation while I am wrestling with the same cards. synchronicity

 

 

 

[Shinsoo]

I--don't really know to be honest.

 

I've created my own method that works for me about 80% of the time, but I'm not sure exactly how I do it.  Sometimes I use the book as reference to get the basic gist of something, sometimes I use imagery and memory--but either way, I take the card's basic meaning and translate it into  the context of the question or issue at hand in order to create a story from it and other cards, if they are in the reading too.  Sometimes only one card is needed, sometimes four.  I rarely go over that amount.

 

Cold readings I generally use about four cards to focus on an issue, or ongoing situation that the person is experiencing or going through in order to create a story and subsequently, advice.  Unsurprisingly, that tends to be the area I fall short on, as I am not the most intuitive.  Doesn't mean I'm not open for practice though. :)

 

-Shinsoo

 

[MollyCat]

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

- Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio

 

So, I look at the card, read the card because it is a text like any other that can be read based on our experience of life, our understanding of symbolism and the network of correlations we have built up over time. Then I look at what the author wrote. Most of the time it makes sense with what I observed. Then, yes, perhaps what comes to me subsequently is plucked out of the air, but I like to think it is intuition because it comes to me like all the other promptings of my intuition in my daily life. Collective subconscious? Jungian synchronicity? Tuning in to the invisible "matrix"? The universal energy? All I know is that there is so much that cannot be explained (yet), and I really think that this ability we have comes directly from that. It's a leap of faith, but I know that it is real because I feel it in my ethereal and physical body.

 

This is something like what I thought I did years ago when reading for others.  I hope this happens again when in the TTM reading circle I've signed up for.  I always centre and pray that what I say and do will be helpful and not do any harm - just

a personal ritual.

 

[Samual_Jennings]

I learned the basic meanings early on. Itm like to combine my basic knowledge with personal meaning, symbols, and intuition(of which I am above average).

 

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