What are the strengths of each tarot system?

[Chariot]

I'm addressing my query to anybody here who regularly reads with more than one tarot system.  By that I mean the RWS, Thoth,  Marseille, etc.  What are the strengths of each particular system? How do you choose which one to read with, at any given time?

 

I am only familiar with the RWS system, but always wondered about the others.  I'm not sure I want to spend the remaining years of my life (I'm 76 now) learning a new system if it's only going to show me what the RWS system already does.  However, if there is a lot to be gained by learning another system, then maybe I should!  🙂

[Rose Lalonde]

Great discussion topic. Like if a carpenter had 2 kinds of saws that were best for different jobs, but, when left with only one saw, she could still do the work.

 

The Thoth system is my go-to when I'm pathworking, interested in advice for myself, spiritual guidance, etc. (Because it's explicit about the astrology, alchemy, hermetic Qabalah, and color theory that the Golden Dawn Society associated with tarot cards. The ongoing discussion of whether they should have associated those is separate from your post here. I can't argue with the results in my readings, regardless.)

 

TdM is clear and to the point for me, so I prefer it for questions like whether to fix my car or buy a new one, or whether the sitter will get a promotion, etc.  (The way I read TdM doesn't require study, really. It's mostly getting used to seeing eye-rhymes and the way the figures face or turn away from one another, how crowded or not the pips look, plus basic numerology you already know from reading with the RWS.)

 

The RWS falls in between for me. I don't think of it as a different system from the Thoth since both are based on the Golden Dawn Society system. But since they put their own slant on it, made some changes, chose how much of the GD system they illustrated on the cards, and finally, since the art styles are not alike -- they end up reading differently despite their common ancestor. (If anything, the RWS reads more like the TdM for me, but less terse. ymmv, obviously)

[Chariot]

11 hours ago, Rose Lalonde said:

Great discussion topic. Like if a carpenter had 2 kinds of saws that were best for different jobs, but, when left with only one saw, she could still do the work.

 

The Thoth system is my go-to when I'm pathworking, interested in advice for myself, spiritual guidance, etc. (Because it's explicit about the astrology, alchemy, hermetic Qabalah, and color theory that the Golden Dawn Society associated with tarot cards. The ongoing discussion of whether they should have associated those is separate from your post here. I can't argue with the results in my readings, regardless.)

 

TdM is clear and to the point for me, so I prefer it for questions like whether to fix my car or buy a new one, or whether the sitter will get a promotion, etc.  (The way I read TdM doesn't require study, really. It's mostly getting used to seeing eye-rhymes and the way the figures face or turn away from one another, how crowded or not the pips look, plus basic numerology you already know from reading with the RWS.)

 

The RWS falls in between for me. I don't think of it as a different system from the Thoth since both are based on the Golden Dawn Society system. But since they put their own slant on it, made some changes, chose how much of the GD system they illustrated on the cards, and finally, since the art styles are not alike -- they end up reading differently despite their common ancestor. (If anything, the RWS reads more like the TdM for me, but less terse. ymmv, obviously)

Thank you!  Exactly the kind of information I was hoping to get from this thread.  May I ask you which system you learned first?  Did your knowledge of that system influence your take on the others?  I mean, if I started with Thoth or TdM, would my previous knowledge and familiarity with RWS be a big influence?  Is it possible to 'start from scratch' with tarot systems, if you already know others?

Edited October 29 by Chariot

[Rose Lalonde]

11 hours ago, Chariot said:

May I ask you which system you learned first?  Did your knowledge of that system influence your take on the others?  

My first full deck had its own system. Practically an oracle in that sense. Years later, I joined Aeclectic and spent a few years exploring. I think TdM was first. I enjoyed a great reading group we had for a line of cards. I wasn't influenced by my previous deck, because it was so different. Then I tried RWS clones. Then RWS. Then the Golden Dawn deck to dig into the roots of RWS. Then the Thoth. 

 

11 hours ago, Chariot said:

 I mean, if I started with Thoth or TdM, would my previous knowledge and familiarity with RWS be a big influence?  Is it possible to 'start from scratch' with tarot systems, if you already know others?

I do think it's possible. If you don't want the RWS to be a big influence, then focusing on the art in front of you and having a new reading method should do the trick.  Do you read playing cards? I ask because if you aren't thinking of the RWS 7 of cups when looking at the 7 of hearts, you're already on solid ground.  

 

Actually, I can think of one problem I'd have... if I read with another system that also had astrology on the cards, but different associations, like Papus, Journey into Egypt or Holy Light -- that might do my head in. To read the Lovers as Taurus, for example (shudders 💀😅) I'd have a hard time letting go of the meaning of Gemini. -- Not that one is 'right' or 'wrong' or best because it was first, etc  To me it only matters that I have methods that I've made my own that give useful readings.

[Chariot]

22 hours ago, Rose Lalonde said:

My first full deck had its own system. Practically an oracle in that sense. Years later, I joined Aeclectic and spent a few years exploring. I think TdM was first. I enjoyed a great reading group we had for a line of cards. I wasn't influenced by my previous deck, because it was so different. Then I tried RWS clones. Then RWS. Then the Golden Dawn deck to dig into the roots of RWS. Then the Thoth. 

 

I do think it's possible. If you don't want the RWS to be a big influence, then focusing on the art in front of you and having a new reading method should do the trick.  Do you read playing cards? I ask because if you aren't thinking of the RWS 7 of cups when looking at the 7 of hearts, you're already on solid ground.  

 

Actually, I can think of one problem I'd have... if I read with another system that also had astrology on the cards, but different associations, like Papus, Journey into Egypt or Holy Light -- that might do my head in. To read the Lovers as Taurus, for example (shudders 💀😅) I'd have a hard time letting go of the meaning of Gemini. -- Not that one is 'right' or 'wrong' or best because it was first, etc  To me it only matters that I have methods that I've made my own that give useful readings.

Thanks again. No, I have never tried reading with an ordinary playing card deck.  Somehow, it doesn't appeal to me.

 

I actually own a Tarot de Marseilles deck that I've never tried to read with—so I might try reading with it, and see how I get on.  Because the pips aren't illustrated, I can be more ...systematic?...with the meanings, as the artwork won't influence me.

 

The only other pip decks I own are The Neuzeit Tarot by Walter Wegmüller and the Zigeuner Tarot, which is also Wegmüller's.  These are the two most bizarre decks I own, and I've had them for many years, but never tried to read with them.  I just love the artwork, which is why I bought them.  Still love the artwork!  However, the pips, while not illustrated with meanings, like the RWS decks, contain such crowded and strange images that it would be difficult to step back and read them in a pragmatic way.  I think I'll just continue to treat these two decks as a mini art gallery, and actually attempt to read with the more normal Tarot de Marseilles.  🙂

I don't own any Thoth decks ...yet.  🙂

Edited October 30 by Chariot

[Misterei]

On 10/28/2025 at 7:57 AM, Chariot said:

I am only familiar with the RWS system, but always wondered about the others.  I'm not sure I want to spend the remaining years of my life (I'm 76 now) learning a new system if it's only going to show me what the RWS system already does.  However, if there is a lot to be gained by learning another system, then maybe I should!  🙂

I learnt RWS at age 15 and stuck with it religiously through my life. I learnt Thoth back in the 90s but it never resonated for me. However, i will say that I applied much of what I learnt about Thoth to reading RWS. As @Rose Lalonde mentions, both RWS and Thoth descend from Golden Dawn. So I felt this Thoth training made me a better reader with RWS.

 

Several years ago I felt burnout on RWS. I got into the older style Tarocchi and TdM. I read Ben Dov's book on TdM and a couple others--but his is the best. While I don't follow any of the Marseille books per se--I use my own style with pip decks--I found this got me out of my rut. It sparked a new direction in my studies, a new way of reading.

 

I tend to use different SPREADS with the different styles. I love a keltic cross with RWS. But i use French cross or game of the hand with pip decks. Other spreads go either way for me. But this is also part of it. The different reading style extends to which spreads I tend to use.

 

For me it's more a matter of mood. The pip decks require more numerology. No depending on pictures. It's all about numbers and suits. So, if I'm in a numerology mood I go for a pip deck. Otherwise a RWS style. With clients, it's usually RWS although on my videos I use a pip deck--so go figure. For some reason making videos I want more numerology and i couldn't tell you why.

 

[Scandinavianhermit]

On 10/28/2025 at 3:57 PM, Chariot said:

I'm addressing my query to anybody here who regularly reads with more than one tarot system.  By that I mean the RWS, Thoth,  Marseille, etc.  What are the strengths of each particular system? How do you choose which one to read with, at any given time?

I tell fortunes with Dame Fortune's Wheel Tarot, the pips of which follows Etteilla's system of interpretation. 

 

I meditate on Oswald Wirth's trumps and wild card. Not exactly pathworking but close enough. Occasionally, I meditate on Rose Tarot. Wirth suggests certain exercises in his book. 

 

I'm still in a learning process when it comes to Marseille decks, but I love it. Too early to say when I will switch to and fro Marseille and DFWT.

[Chariot]

12 hours ago, Misterei said:

The pip decks require more numerology. No depending on pictures. It's all about numbers and suits. So, if I'm in a numerology mood I go for a pip deck. Otherwise a RWS style. With clients, it's usually RWS although on my videos I use a pip deck--so go figure. For some reason making videos I want more numerology and i couldn't tell you why.

 

Do you use reversals with pip decks?  If so, using numbers and suits, do you read a reversal as lacking the qualities of the upright meanings?  Or maybe the opposite of these meanings?  I'm beginning to see how pip decks could be useful in these reversed circumstances ...but I suppose I would need to be consistent.

[Chariot]

10 hours ago, Scandinavianhermit said:

I tell fortunes with Dame Fortune's Wheel Tarot, the pips of which follows Etteilla's system of interpretation. 

 

I meditate on Oswald Wirth's trumps and wild card. Not exactly pathworking but close enough. Occasionally, I meditate on Rose Tarot. Wirth suggests certain exercises in his book. 

 

I'm still in a learning process when it comes to Marseille decks, but I love it. Too early to say when I will switch to and fro Marseille and DFWT.

I used to own a Wirth deck, but I think I gave it away a long time ago because I didn't use it.  I saw it as similar to the Marseille decks, in terms of content.

[Misterei]

6 hours ago, Chariot said:

Do you use reversals with pip decks?  If so, using numbers and suits, do you read a reversal as lacking the qualities of the upright meanings?  Or maybe the opposite of these meanings?  I'm beginning to see how pip decks could be useful in these reversed circumstances ...but I suppose I would need to be consistent.

I seldom use reversals even with RWS. With pips you often can't use reversals with the number cards as they are the same [depending on the deck].

Rather than using reversals--i look at interactions. What I call card yogas. How do the numbers relate? How do the suits relate? Is there a numeric progression from high to low numbers like 6 to 8?? or does the progression go backwards i.e. like a 3 followed by a 2. So this is where i find the nuances which might be shown by reversals. Even Trump cards are still numeric. Empress is 3 for example. So these also can be used in the nuance of observing progressions of the numbers rather than reading reversals to glean these nuances. Hope this makes sense.

[Chariot]

2 hours ago, Misterei said:

I seldom use reversals even with RWS. With pips you often can't use reversals with the number cards as they are the same [depending on the deck].

Rather than using reversals--i look at interactions. What I call card yogas. How do the numbers relate? How do the suits relate? Is there a numeric progression from high to low numbers like 6 to 8?? or does the progression go backwards i.e. like a 3 followed by a 2. So this is where i find the nuances which might be shown by reversals. Even Trump cards are still numeric. Empress is 3 for example. So these also can be used in the nuance of observing progressions of the numbers rather than reading reversals to glean these nuances. Hope this makes sense.

I guess there are pip decks and  pip decks!  My Wegmüller Tarocco Tzigano deck certainly has reversible pips.  Even the coins are reversible.  All the decoration makes them so, as well as things being upright, like cups and swords, etc.  As that's really the only pip deck I've looked at recently, I just assumed all pip cards in all pip decks were reversible.  I stand corrected!
 

 

My Fournier edition of Le Tarot de Marseille also has some reversible pips ...although not all of them.  Technically they could all be reversible because the number of each card is displayed in the border ...but that would be cheating!  🙂

I'll need to re-think my approach.  I suspect you are right ...to just employ the numerics and work on that.

[Chariot]

Oh, yee ha!  I didn't give away my Universal Wirth Tarot after all!  It's languishing in the bottom of the box where I keep empty tuck boxes (because I like to put my decks in lidded boxes.)  The one I remember giving away was a terribly garish version of the Tarot de Marseille.  I have a much calmer version of that now.  Oh boy. So except for a  Thoth deck, I guess I have a pretty good foundation to try out these new systems!  

UPDATE - just ordered a pre-owned (traditional) Thoth deck (plus booklet) from eBay.  So I'm entering a new phase.  Old dog learning new tricks?   Thanks everybody for all the extremely useful advice.   🙂

 

Edited Friday at 07:55 PM by Chariot

[Misterei]

20 hours ago, Chariot said:

I guess there are pip decks and  pip decks!  My Wegmüller Tarocco Tzigano deck certainly has reversible pips.  Even the coins are reversible.  All the decoration makes them so, as well as things being upright, like cups and swords, etc.  As that's really the only pip deck I've looked at recently, I just assumed all pip cards in all pip decks were reversible.  I stand corrected!
 

 

My Fournier edition of Le Tarot de Marseille also has some reversible pips ...although not all of them.  Technically they could all be reversible because the number of each card is displayed in the border ...but that would be cheating!  🙂

I'll need to re-think my approach.  I suspect you are right ...to just employ the numerics and work on that.

What a lovely colorful deck!

Most of my pip decks are historic tarocchi or tdm. One can plainly see if cups are reversed--but not so much the other suits. For example swords you might only be able to see a reversal on the odd number cards but not the even numbers.

of course one can still see reversals on courts or trumps. So I might use reversals if i read that way generally--but since I don't use reversals generally speaking I carry that across. If you normally use reversals its worth a try to experiment and see if you like it for pip decks. I don't think Ben Dov teaches reversals in his book--but it's been years since i read it. My general impression is the books I've read on TdM don't teach reversals--but I might be mistaken.

[Chariot]

My new-to-me Thoth deck just arrived. EEE yipe! 👀  This is going to take a big of doing.  Totally unfamiliar stuff for me.  Thankfully the little white book that came with the deck was written by Crowley himself, so I'm hoping it will shed some light.  I thought it would be easier to understand off the bat than this.  It will be a challenge, but I'm up for it.  At least at the moment....

 

The deck is a nice size, though ...printed in Belgium. And the cards are very easy to handle.  They're only just slightly larger than ordinary playing cards, so that suits me.  It's a pre-owned deck, but in very good nick.  

Edited 3 hours ago by Chariot

[Nemia]

My first deck was the Thoth, and it's been my teacher - it made the world of kabbalah and the connection between astrology and the tarot accessible for me (and maybe, one day I'll also learn more about alchemy!). It's still my to-go system whenever I read for myself. 

 

For me, Thoth really is the easiest way to explore the deeper tendencies of my life and soul. Reading for others, it sometimes reveals too much - it can be pretty brutal. Decks based on the Thoth, like M.M. Meleen's wonderful decks, are great readers for me as well. I never go anywhere without my trimmed little old Thoth or a pocket Meleen deck (Rosetta or Tabula Mundi). They're wonderful for meditation. 

 

The RWS came later for me, and I feel it's more down-to-earth. When I was reading professionally, I used an RWS-based deck, and it worked well for me, so now I feel comfortable with both systems. RWS-style decks also worked well when I did my ancestral readings (the Anna K. Tarot was great for that, as was the Mystical Moments Tarot - I combined them and got much insight about my family history). 

 

The Colman-Smith deck itself came late into my collection (the Centennial, which I love). For many years, the RWS system was represented by the Morgan-Greer, which is warmer and more accessible than the original RWS. It's an excellent reading deck. 

 

I'm a European. When and where I got started with the tarot, the RWS was not as dominant as it seems to be online and in the Anglo-tarotsphere. All the people I knew who did tarot used the Thoth, and it was also the deck I started out with. 

 

I have tried reading with Marseilles and other pip decks, using Yoav Ben-Dov's open reading style, but I rarely turn to my pip decks box when reading for myself and others. It's one of my "I should, I should" things. I find many historical decks very beautiful and appealing, but somehow, I don't reach for them often enough. 

 

Lately, a lot of decks have come out with systems of their own that take the Big Three Traditions as a jumping board and land somewhere else completely. While it can make reading with them a bit challenging, I appreciate these decks and love getting into them. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Nemia