Whisper Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 I came across this website, How Tarot Works and Why and thought it might be good for some of us who have people in our lives who don't really understand our love of Tarots and Oracles. What do you think? Is it convincing enough? Solid?
gregory Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 It might be. BUT - I don't try to deal with such people. Just as I would object if someone tried to explain to me why I needed religion in my life. We all have our different areas; if I have a tarot sceptic in my life, that's fine. If they WANT to know, I will try and find stuff that will interest them - but I actually object to this particular site, just because it says How and Why Tarot Works (and why you should try it!) There's no should about it. Just as there is no reason I "should" believe in god. It smacks of all those threads that used to pop up on AT - how can I show them they are wrong. They aren't wrong. Nor are we who do "buy in" to tarot. We all have our own beliefs and I don't think we should try to force them on others who differ. I will engage with people who express a genuine interest and ask questions that make sense (not questions like "How can you believe in cards and not god ?") - but if someone just says they don't believe in Tarot - that's fine. Why try and make them ? I have better things to do with my time. And they have better things to do than listen to me proselytising.
dancing_moon Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 I agree with gregory[/member]. It's a nice article, and it makes some good and valid points, but it's kind of off-putting with that 'why you should (try, want, like etc.)...' approach, even if that's something you really should try/want/like. If the skeptics are genuinely interested, I'll talk to them and share my enthusiasm in my own words. Sometimes, what they look for is specifically a personalized experience and personal feelings on the subject, not just the information, no matter how convincing or intelligent it is.
DanielJUK Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 it's a beautifully made post Shivani but skeptics wouldn't believe any of the things in the article at the extreme end of skepticism. I don't think we can always avoid skeptics, we can try but we may know people who are them or they challenge our tarot. But agree with Dancing Moon and Gregory about, why deal with it? The best thing you can do is to show confidence in your beliefs and interests, I love my tarot, I love my religion (if someone has religion), unwavering confidence when someone tries to influence your life outlook is the best course of action :)
gregory Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 I agree with gregory[/member]. It's a nice article, and it makes some good and valid points, but it's kind of off-putting with that 'why you should (try, want, like etc.)...' approach, even if that's something you really should try/want/like. If the skeptics are genuinely interested, I'll talk to them and share my enthusiasm in my own words. Sometimes, what they look for is specifically a personalized experience and personal feelings on the subject, not just the information, no matter how convincing or intelligent it is. I don't know that there is anything anyone "should" try, actually. Unless you include not being racist and other such stuff that everyone "should" embrace.... And vegetables :) Everyone should be eating their vegetables - but that is because it actually does affect their health not to do so. :D And even then - I guess if you don't mind being unhealthy...
Page of Ghosts Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 I don't know how tarot works and I don't feel like it's important for me to know in order to use the cards - I'm enjoying what I do and I'm content with that. To me the title suggests it could be written for mild to moderate skeptics who are already interested in trying it out but their skepticism gets the better of them. For someone who goes beyond that and is even anti-tarot I don't think we could do or say anything to sway them. Like others have said, I think my time and energy could be better spent on other pursuits. I don't think it's a bad article and it's fun to revisit all those theories on how tarot works though!
dancing_moon Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 I agree with gregory[/member]. It's a nice article, and it makes some good and valid points, but it's kind of off-putting with that 'why you should (try, want, like etc.)...' approach, even if that's something you really should try/want/like. If the skeptics are genuinely interested, I'll talk to them and share my enthusiasm in my own words. Sometimes, what they look for is specifically a personalized experience and personal feelings on the subject, not just the information, no matter how convincing or intelligent it is. I don't know that there is anything anyone "should" try, actually. Unless you include not being racist and other such stuff that everyone "should" embrace.... And vegetables :) Everyone should be eating their vegetables - but that is because it actually does affect their health not to do so. :D And even then - I guess if you don't mind being unhealthy... I was actually thinking of vegetables, gregory[/member]. ;D And yes, not being racist, being respectful to others, brushing your teeth, etc.
sandrang123 Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 I'm not down with "shoulds", either. But I agree about the veggies!!!! And, as Chair of a farmers' market, I'll add: Eat your veggies and support your local farmers! :) Lol. I agree with gregory[/member]. It's a nice article, and it makes some good and valid points, but it's kind of off-putting with that 'why you should (try, want, like etc.)...' approach, even if that's something you really should try/want/like. If the skeptics are genuinely interested, I'll talk to them and share my enthusiasm in my own words. Sometimes, what they look for is specifically a personalized experience and personal feelings on the subject, not just the information, no matter how convincing or intelligent it is. I don't know that there is anything anyone "should" try, actually. Unless you include not being racist and other such stuff that everyone "should" embrace.... And vegetables :) Everyone should be eating their vegetables - but that is because it actually does affect their health not to do so. :D And even then - I guess if you don't mind being unhealthy...
Whisper Posted February 26, 2018 Author Posted February 26, 2018 You're all right. <3 I just think it's a shame when people close themselves off from discovering something that could help them and change their lives. But, I suppose, each must find his or her way.
gregory Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 But that's the thing. Who's to say it would help them and change their lives ? There are people who know finding Jesus would do that for me. But - yes - I close myself off from that, if you like.
Jewel Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 I agree with Gregory 100%. I think this site is actually more geared for someone who is drawn to Tarot but is not quite sure what it is or how it could be used. I find this more an enabling tarot interest in someone who has some than for someone who has made the choice to dislike it based on their religion or heresay. The use of the word "should" would most likely put those people on the defensive ASAP and even if they read the article would most likely have already formed a set opinion right then and there. Like others said it seems much like proselytizing and I am just not in agreement with that at all.
Whisper Posted February 26, 2018 Author Posted February 26, 2018 But that's the thing. Who's to say it would help them and change their lives ? There are people who know finding Jesus would do that for me. But - yes - I close myself off from that, if you like. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you are closing yourself off in any way. I meant more that people who have a misconception of what tarot is all about are often unwilling to hear a different perspective from theirs. Not just Tarot. but other things, too, I guess. And, yes, you're right, might not change their lives at all and that's fine.
Whisper Posted February 26, 2018 Author Posted February 26, 2018 I agree with Gregory 100%. I think this site is actually more geared for someone who is drawn to Tarot but is not quite sure what it is or how it could be used. I find this more an enabling tarot interest in someone who has some than for someone who has made the choice to dislike it based on their religion or heresay. The use of the word "should" would most likely put those people on the defensive ASAP and even if they read the article would most likely have already formed a set opinion right then and there. Like others said it seems much like proselytizing and I am just not in agreement with that at all. I'm not defending the article, per se, just thought that the person who wrote it feels strongly about the tarot and is trying to persuade others of its benefits. I, too, am not in favour of proselytizing at all. I'm sorry, now, that I even posted it. *sigh* Really didn't want to cause any controversy. To each his own, as they say.
Jewel Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 I'm not defending the article, per se, just thought that the person who wrote it feels strongly about the tarot and is trying to persuade others of its benefits. I, too, am not in favour of proselytizing at all. I'm sorry, now, that I even posted it. *sigh* Really didn't want to cause any controversy. To each his own, as they say. Why should you feel sorry? I see no controversy here, just opinions. I never thought you were defending the article just sharing. My comments (as I believe all others) were specific to the article, you did nothing wrong here.
Whisper Posted February 26, 2018 Author Posted February 26, 2018 I'm not defending the article, per se, just thought that the person who wrote it feels strongly about the tarot and is trying to persuade others of its benefits. I, too, am not in favour of proselytizing at all. I'm sorry, now, that I even posted it. *sigh* Really didn't want to cause any controversy. To each his own, as they say. Why should you feel sorry? I see no controversy here, just opinions. I never thought you were defending the article just sharing. My comments (as I believe all others) were specific to the article, you did nothing wrong here. Thank you, my dear. <3 A reminder of how one has to be careful with what is published online.
sandrang123 Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 Shivani, I agree with Jewel. None of this is directed towards you, personally. It's just opinions! Sometimes, with extreme sensitives (which I feel you are), it can get a little harder to distinguish the difference. I love that you posted this link here! It drummed up some great discussion. :) <3
Carojulie Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 I totally agree with what has been said about proselytism. But I dont agree that this article is very good (this is only my own opinion here, no offense to anyone, and I am open to different opinions). I am a skeptic myself. I dont really know how to describe my beliefs, or non-beliefs, but the closest I found is "skeptic agnostic with a need for spirituality". I disagree with many affirmations in the article (such as that of tarot giving clear answers.... well, not in my experience - I find that it tends to speak in symbol, in metaphors and even sometimes in riddles, but not in clear language) I did not find in this article anything that explains how tarot "works". I merely found a few info about what tarot is, but I find it quite incomplete, and it only speaks of modern tarot through the lense of a certain new agey approach..... Most of the info is presented with precaution : tarot "might " be this, "some people would think" that tarot is that.... If I wanted to persuade a fellow skeptic that tarot does work for real (and I dont especially want to do such a thing), I would not find any helpful argument in this article. My husband is not open to tarot, he is strongly closed to anything occulte, he is wary when someone tries to "scientify" paranormal stuff in order to make it seem more possible, and he thinks that tarot reading relies on coincidences and the fact that some readings and interpretations can suit many different situation and that you can always "make the reading coincide with your circumstances. I dont share his certitude here, but I respect his point of view, and find it valid. I read the article with him in mind, and I thought that he really wouldn't be convinced if I had translated the article for him..... Actually, I think the content of the article is not what the title suggests : This article is a good general presentation of a certain new agey way of using tarot, but it's not very deep, and apart comparing tarot with psychological methods of working with abstract or figurative images (and you could argue that you need a trained psychologist to do that seriously), it does not explain how it works at all. Sorry for the blunt opinion, it's just mine, and please know that I respect all opinions, including that of who wrote the article and who posted it there.
sandrang123 Posted February 26, 2018 Posted February 26, 2018 My husband is a paleontologist, huge sciency mind in his community (nationally and abroad). After 21 years of marriage, he just thinks I'm a "witch" (in quotes, from him). There is that, too...There is no way he can explain "me" otherwise, or things I weirdly know, anymore than my parents could. And yet... :) Sandy
Whisper Posted February 26, 2018 Author Posted February 26, 2018 Shivani, I agree with Jewel. None of this is directed towards you, personally. It's just opinions! Sometimes, with extreme sensitives (which I feel you are), it can get a little harder to distinguish the difference. I love that you posted this link here! It drummed up some great discussion. :) <3 Thank you, Sandrang. <3 I'm relatively new,here, still feeling my way around and would never wish to step on anybody's toes. That said, I'm up for a good debate and value different opinions (although being quite an intense and passionate person I have to watch myself. Got to make sure I don't stand on my soap box too long). ;D And, yes, of course you're right. That speaks to your intuition. I'm so used to talking to people face to face, seeing their expressions and reading their body language, that conversing with others only in writing is a whole other ball game. I'm overthinking this, aren't I? LOL
Whisper Posted February 27, 2018 Author Posted February 27, 2018 I totally agree with what has been said about proselytism. But I dont agree that this article is very good (this is only my own opinion here, no offense to anyone, and I am open to different opinions). I am a skeptic myself. I dont really know how to describe my beliefs, or non-beliefs, but the closest I found is "skeptic agnostic with a need for spirituality". I disagree with many affirmations in the article (such as that of tarot giving clear answers.... well, not in my experience - I find that it tends to speak in symbol, in metaphors and even sometimes in riddles, but not in clear language) I did not find in this article anything that explains how tarot "works". I merely found a few info about what tarot is, but I find it quite incomplete, and it only speaks of modern tarot through the lense of a certain new agey approach..... Most of the info is presented with precaution : tarot "might " be this, "some people would think" that tarot is that.... If I wanted to persuade a fellow skeptic that tarot does work for real (and I dont especially want to do such a thing), I would not find any helpful argument in this article. My husband is not open to tarot, he is strongly closed to anything occulte, he is wary when someone tries to "scientify" paranormal stuff in order to make it seem more possible, and he thinks that tarot reading relies on coincidences and the fact that some readings and interpretations can suit many different situation and that you can always "make the reading coincide with your circumstances. I dont share his certitude here, but I respect his point of view, and find it valid. I read the article with him in mind, and I thought that he really wouldn't be convinced if I had translated the article for him..... Actually, I think the content of the article is not what the title suggests : This article is a good general presentation of a certain new agey way of using tarot, but it's not very deep, and apart comparing tarot with psychological methods of working with abstract or figurative images (and you could argue that you need a trained psychologist to do that seriously), it does not explain how it works at all. Sorry for the blunt opinion, it's just mine, and please know that I respect all opinions, including that of who wrote the article and who posted it there. All opinions are welcome, Carojulie. <3 My husband feels like yours, and yours, too, Sandy. The way I see it is that there might be spirituality in religion, but there doesn't have to be religion in spirituality. Are we not spiritual beings going through a physical experience for 70, 80, 90 or more years? Wayne Dyer has a book (I can't remember the title) in which he has an interesting chart comparing the religious impulse to the spiritual one, like, for example, religion looking outward, spirituality looking inward. So, that you see yourself as a "skeptic agnostic with a need for spirituality" is no oxymoron. :) No disrespect to the author of the article, but perhaps there is too much of a discrepancy between the intention and the actual article itself...
Whisper Posted February 27, 2018 Author Posted February 27, 2018 My husband is a paleontologist, huge sciency mind in his community (nationally and abroad). After 21 years of marriage, he just thinks I'm a "witch" (in quotes, from him). There is that, too...There is no way he can explain "me" otherwise, or things I weirdly know, anymore than my parents could. And yet... :) Sandy Discussions in your home must be very interesting, Sandy. :) There is so much beyond science...
Whisper Posted February 27, 2018 Author Posted February 27, 2018 You're fine. And lovely! <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
Carojulie Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 The way I see it is that there might be spirituality in religion, but there doesn't have to be religion in spirituality. Yes, that's is exactly ! You said it very clearly in such few words, when I have always so much trouble trying to explain ! :)
gregory Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 But that's the thing. Who's to say it would help them and change their lives ? There are people who know finding Jesus would do that for me. But - yes - I close myself off from that, if you like. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that you are closing yourself off in any way. I meant more that people who have a misconception of what tarot is all about are often unwilling to hear a different perspective from theirs. Not just Tarot. but other things, too, I guess. And, yes, you're right, might not change their lives at all and that's fine. No apology needed. You're fine - you posted a link and we are just discussing it ! I'm just saying that we all have areas that we actually can absolutely KNOW are wrong for us, and that it really would be a waste of time to follow up on them all. Finding Jesus is one such for me. It is also why I have given up engaging in discussion with people who come to the door to help me see the light. I am very happy indeed for those who find that a wonderful thing, but I have so many areas I want to concentrate on that I am closed to those that I know will not be fruitful for me. If we were all the same the world would be very boring. I am delighted to engage in genuine discussion with those who don't actually rubbish my opinions and beliefs though, and I will not rubbish theirs; we can agree to differ and enjoy it. But MOST people are unwilling to see the perspectives of at least one person in their life. I will never see the perspectives of members of the NRA, for instance. And I am totally closed to them. I also agree that there does not have to be religion in spirituality. A deeply religious person I know told me once (and I am totally irreligious) that I was the most spiritual person she knew. I know exactly what she meant. ....the quality of being concerned with the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things. I think all of us here have that. A LOT of rabidly religious people I know are very much indeed concerned with the material in life. And this is an interesting discussion; I just don't like the FEEL of that article; it effectively says that people who don't embrace tarot are"wrong" and "should" change. There were a lot of people in threads on AT who took that view, and it is one I object to very much. They would say (as no-one in this thread has done and that's why it is interesting !) "How can I make them see it my way." "How can I make them see they are WRONG". And in the worst of them, ask for putdowns to use against sceptics. That's as wrong as the people who tell Witnesses who come to the door that they hope they need a transfusion some day.
Recommended Posts