Whisper Posted February 27, 2018 Author Posted February 27, 2018 The way I see it is that there might be spirituality in religion, but there doesn't have to be religion in spirituality. Yes, that's is exactly ! You said it very clearly in such few words, when I have always so much trouble trying to explain ! :) The comparison I mentioned isn't in a book by Dyer, it's in Hymns to an Unknown God by Sam Keen. It stayed with me because Keen's differentiation between what he calls "The Religious Life" and "The Spiritual Quest" gave me food for thought. I've attached it. :) I've gone off track, here. We were talking about an article and now we find ourselves talking about spirituality. ;D Do let me know what you think, though. :D
Whisper Posted February 27, 2018 Author Posted February 27, 2018 we all have areas that we actually can absolutely KNOW are wrong for us, and that it really would be a waste of time to follow up on them all. Finding Jesus is one such for me. It is also why I have given up engaging in discussion with people who come to the door to help me see the light. ... I have so many areas I want to concentrate on that I am closed to those that I know will not be fruitful for me. ... MOST people are unwilling to see the perspectives of at least one person in their life. I will never see the perspectives of members of the NRA, for instance. And I am totally closed to them. You're right, gregory. Jehova Witness missionaries, for example, have stopped coming to my door. One has to go with one's interests; there just isn't enough time for everything. I think what I was trying to get at is just the fact that, sometimes, new discoveries are made because of a fortuitous conversation, reading something or seeing a film or documentary one wouldn't normally pay attention to. I am delighted to engage in genuine discussion with those who don't actually rubbish my opinions and beliefs though, and I will not rubbish theirs; we can agree to differ and enjoy. Totally with you, here. I also agree that there does not have to be religion in spirituality. A deeply religious person I know told me once (and I am totally irreligious) that I was the most spiritual person she knew. I really and truly believe that we are all spiritual beings going through a physical experience. Do you believe in reincarnation? A LOT of rabidly religious people I know are very much indeed concerned with the material in life. My husband follows US politics very closely. Sometimes, I watch with him. I then vacillate between wanting to shout at the television, dropping my head in my hands in disbelief, or my heart going out to what I cannot help believing, or maybe want to believe, is the majority of the American people. I see some of the evangelists and I know exactly what you mean about the materialism. No offense to people who believe strongly in the Second Amendment, but, from a personal point of view, I'm not even going to get started about the NRA. *sigh* (As you can see, now is probably the time for me to get down from my soap box. LOL). All I know is that, because of what I do in life, I can't help crying when I see children being hurt or dying. And this is an interesting discussion; I just don't like the FEEL of that article; it effectively says that people who don't embrace tarot are"wrong" and "should" change. There were a lot of people in threads on AT who took that view, and it is one I object to very much. They would say (as no-one in this thread has done and that's why it is interesting !) "How can I make them see it my way." "How can I make them see they are WRONG". And in the worst of them, ask for putdowns to use against sceptics. That's as wrong as the people who tell Witnesses who come to the door that they hope they need a transfusion some day. Your sense of fairness does you credit, gregory. I really like that about you. <3 I can't agree more with what you say, here. People really do that?! That's sad. Very sad.
sandrang123 Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 Maybe it's fair to say that when it comes to spirituality and/or "religion", we all bring some baggage to the table? Which is also sort of interesting. Why is religion and/or spirit such a *trigger* point? And why has it been, historically so? More wars have been fought over religion than anything else.
gregory Posted February 27, 2018 Posted February 27, 2018 More wars have been fought over ORGANISED religion than anything else. Those who follow their own personal religious path don't get involved in wars. (and I include people of all faiths here - I know a load of Christians, Muslims, Quakers, Jews who do not attend anything in the way of religious meetings, but follow their own path). It takes a sort of mass - a group - thing to achieve a religious war. Led by crooked imams who misrepresent the Qran. By rabid Evangelists who think non believers should be shot at dawn. The death to the infidel stuff. It takes congregations who blindly follow the lead of their preacher - because that preacher has the charisma - or engenders the fear of damnation - to carry them along. Yes we all have baggage in that area - it's true.
Whisper Posted February 27, 2018 Author Posted February 27, 2018 It takes congregations who blindly follow the lead of their preacher - because that preacher has the charisma - or engenders the fear of damnation - to carry them along. I think that's the problem: the following blindly of anything. I always remember my father saying (he lived in a Catholic country) that there really wasn't much of a difference between a fanatical catholic and fanatical communist. He was being facetious, of course, but fanatical is the operative word of course. And fanaticism knows how to hide, how to masquerade itself, even. You're right, gregory. Mass/group mentality is also another problem. A group seems to take on a life of its own. Individuality disappears and people suddenly become mindless, or, maybe, blindly "one-minded". For me, there's also this: the moment we see others (separate from ourselves) as other, then we can more easily demonize, denigrate, dehumanize and vilify. It's easy, then, to say, "Your way is wrong and mine is the only right way."
Whisper Posted February 27, 2018 Author Posted February 27, 2018 I like this conversation. <3 <3 <3 <3
gregory Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 Me too. But I still don't like that article. Because it DOES pretty much say that tarot is the RIGHT way. For me, there's also this: the moment we see others (separate from ourselves) as other, then we can more easily demonize, denigrate, dehumanize and vilify. It's easy, then, to say, "Your way is wrong and mine is the only right way" This is also a huge component of racism and xenophobia. https://www.pressreader.com/uk/whats-on-tv/20180120/282054802445924 https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20180125/282544428730262 I saw the show, though I cannot find it on youtube or anything. But it was stomach-churning. (And that commentator in the second clip is very wrong. It was FAR more meaningful to see her hurt and upset than to see someone try and argue back.)
sandrang123 Posted February 28, 2018 Posted February 28, 2018 I totally agree with you; I don't like the article, either. Me too. But I still don't like that article. Because it DOES pretty much say that tarot is the RIGHT way. For me, there's also this: the moment we see others (separate from ourselves) as other, then we can more easily demonize, denigrate, dehumanize and vilify. It's easy, then, to say, "Your way is wrong and mine is the only right way" This is also a huge component of racism and xenophobia. https://www.pressreader.com/uk/whats-on-tv/20180120/282054802445924 https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20180125/282544428730262 I saw the show, though I cannot find it on youtube or anything. But it was stomach-churning. (And that commentator in the second clip is very wrong. It was FAR more meaningful to see her hurt and upset than to see someone try and argue back.)
Whisper Posted February 28, 2018 Author Posted February 28, 2018 I totally agree with you; I don't like the article, either. Unfortunately, there are too many articles like that out there.
Amethyst indigo Posted March 14, 2018 Posted March 14, 2018 That kind of article makes me deeply uncomfortable. Just because something 'might' be beneficial for me, doesn't mean it's my cup of tea, or that I might not prefer a zillion other things that would do me just as much good. Or prefer to just watch tv, or do absolutely nothing at all! And coming from a different angle, I have absolutely no interest in trying to 'convert' others into believing what I believe in... live and let live I say. I find people who are really 'anti' to be a complete waste of my energy anyway. I think my reactions come from a strong ethical point of view, and in a nutshell I feel uncomfortable with the idea pushed that people 'should' be doing something as though there is only one 'right' way of being. I love that this forum can have this type of discussion in such a respectful way ❤
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