Talk to me about the Thoth

[Delizt]

I have a beautiful Thoth deck...I look at it from time to time, I may even trim it one day so I can handle it comfortably....but it intimidates me as a reading deck...Ive learned on the RWS and even dabble in TdM...but the Thoth is the "biggie" that I have not yet the courage to approach..

 

So those of you who love this deck, talk to me :) :)

[Portia]

The Thoth is so beautiful, deep, and evocative. I am not a Thoth expert by any stretch of the imagination but I m fascinated by it, too.

 

I think you can enjoy the Thoth just as is, so to speak. You can certainly learn the esoteric, mythological, mystical, and Golden Dawn influences that surround the deck, but I don't think you have to. The images can speak for themselves. I think it's a deck that will grow with you as you grow and that will meet you where you are.

 

It was M.M. Meleen's Rosetta Tarot that helped me peel away at some of the impenetrable Thoth layers and made it feel less daunting. After working with the Rosetta, I picked up a Thoth deck, and I'm so glad I did.

 

Wonderful deck. I hope to get to know it more, too.

[Delizt]

the impenetrable Thoth layers

 

That's what I feel when I look at it!! But I know someday it will start to speak to me :)

[Page of Ghosts]

I felt the same way, that the Thoth was The Big Guy, a very intense and deep deck that I'd have to be a tarot master to try out somewhere far away in a distant future. But I own a copy of it now and while I haven't tried any readings with it, it's not that scary. Only thing that's scary is the bad & floppy cardstock *dreams of acquiring a better printing* that I'm not too impressed with. And I wish I'd gotten the big size to better see the art!

 

I like that the majors feel very Major, very big and cosmic somehow. The minors a pip-ish but not excactly, I've already made some stories about them based on the keyword and imagery. I think the 4 of pents looks like a fortress and is called Power, the next one looks like there is coming lava towards a similar fortress and the keyword is Worry - I would very much worry about that lava if I lived in the fortress!

 

I own the Lon Milo book that I've just started reading in and it seems decent for a newbie if you wanna dip into the astrological, kabbalistic and Golden Dawn stuff. Crowleys own book is really advanced and complicated if you don't already know a lot of that stuff. But if you don't I'm sure it can work wonderfully as a regular reading deck. Many people use it like that, so Lon Milo says so I trust him ;D A lot of cards are similar to the RWS but many are very different in both meaning and image so I know I need to pay attention to that and not just think in RWS terms since I'm more used to that system.

[Portia]

I have the Milo book, and I've read it twice, but I found it difficult to connect with the material. I've only read excerpts from the actual "Book of Thoth." The language is poetical, even though I sometimes haven't the faintest idea what Crowley was talking about!

 

The Ian Daniels book "Phantasmagoria" that accompanies "Tarot of the Vampyres" is loosely Thoth based. (Cover your eyes and ears, Thothy scholars!) I love this book to pieces. Beautifully written and actually quite "thinky."

 

Maybe someday I'll delve more deeply into Thoth esoterica, but for now I'm just enjoying the images and letting the energy of the deck speak to me.

 

It definitely has a lot to say.

[Page of Ghosts]

I'm curious to see if any of it sticks when I get that far in the book, because so far what I've read in the Medieval Scapini book about the sephiroth and astrology just flies over my head. I read it but I don't understand that much. Kinda like someone is shouting at me from behind a wall of water. That book is just a shallow overview of it though... still I wonder if I'd be better off taking notes instead of just reading. That way at least I know I'm making an effort!

[fyreflye]

You can't really use the Thoth deck in the way it's meant to be used without engaging in the study of Alchemy, Astrology, the Western Magical Tradition (especially the Golden Dawn), Kabalah, numerology and much more.  In other words, it's not just a deck it's a lifestyle  :)

 

Read the book by Lon Milo Duquette http://tinyurl.com/ya5xzlqf and see if it interests you.  Try doing readings using the book and the cards.  If it continues to interest you read (carefully) Aleister Crowley's Book of Thoth http://tinyurl.com/y735we6s

If you're not interested in doing that get The Tarot Handbook by Angeles Arrien http://tinyurl.com/y99srlyx which takes a simpler and non Crowley approach to the deck.  See if you would prefer to use that approach.

Once you've decided what you want to do come back here for advice and recommendations. Meanwhile, keep playing with the cards.

[Page of Ghosts]

I'm curious to see if any of it sticks when I get that far in the book, because so far what I've read in the Medieval Scapini book about the sephiroth and astrology just flies over my head. I read it but I don't understand that much. Kinda like someone is shouting at me from behind a wall of water. That book is just a shallow overview of it though... still I wonder if I'd be better off taking notes instead of just reading. That way at least I know I'm making an effort!

 

Ok I am at the part where he writes about Kabbalah and the Tree of Life and how we humans are the princess... and I understand it! It makes sense! I am very happy and it seems managable to actually learn some of this stuff :D

[fyreflye]

Essential Thoth Tarot/Aleister Crowley Reading List

 

Here's a little something to keep y'all busy learnin'

 

Book of Thoth - Crowley, A.

The Thoth Companion - Michael Snuffin

Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot - Lon Milo DuQuette

Keywords for the Crowley Tarot - Hajo Banzhaf and Brigitte Theler

The Crowley Tarot: The Handbook of the Cards - Hajo Banzhaf and Akron

 

Fortune's Wheelhouse Podcast

 

Qabalistic Tarot - Robert Wang

Chicken Qabalah - DuQuette, L.M.

Magick Without Tears - Crowley, A.

Liber AL vel Legis aka The Book of the Law

Liber 777 - does anyone have a link for download? I can't find a complete one.

Tarot And the Magus - Hughes-Barlow, P.

 

Initiation in the Aeon of the Child, J. Daniel Gunther

Qabalah A Magical Primer

Magick in Theory and Practice prt iiii (book 4), Aleister Crowley

Enochian Magick in Theory, Frater Yechidah.

 

Liber Theta (Thelemic reconstitution of Liber T) - College of Thelema/Jim Eshelman (free download)

Tarot Divination (excerpted from the Equinox Vol. 1, No. 8 by Weiser in 1976) - Aleister Crowley

 

 

 

The Thoth Tarot, Astrology, & Other Selelcted Writings - Phyllis Seckler (Soror Meral).

 

The Angel and the Abyss - J. Daniel Gunther.

 

The Tarot: A Key to the Wisdom of the Ages - Paul Foster Case.

[Trogon]

I purchased the Röhrig Tarot before I got the Thoth (the Röhrig is based on the Thoth), and this gave me a gentle introduction to Crowley's deck. When I did get the Thoth Tarot, it wasn't quite as intimidating. I have found that it is fairly easy to read with ... but I'm sure that Mr. Crowley turns over in his grave every time I do a reading. For me, most of the cards fit in fairly well with the RWS meanings, and the ones that don't, you have the clue of the key-word to guide you in the proper direction. It seems there are more similarities than there are differences. We know, of course, that Waite changed the numbers for Strength and Justice for his own reasons (which I don't think he ever revealed), but the meanings of the cards are still, essentially, the same.

 

As I said, I'm sure that Crowley and probably Waite are spinning in their respective final resting places because of me saying this. And, I'm sure that several Thoth scholars who read this are bristling by now as well. But, this is my personal experience with the deck. The good thing about all of this is that having learned the way I did opened my mind to other Thoth-based decks such as the Haindl and others.

 

I do have Crowley's book. It is very deep and it seems that a fair bit of it is meant to only be understood after you have mastered other things. One of these days I'll get another book ... one that simplifies things a bit perhaps. As such, I really appreciate all of the suggestions that have been made.

 

I was lucky in that I was able to pick up one of the last copies that a shop in Sedona had, of the Swiss published large-size deck in the blue box. It's an excellent deck. The imagery of the Thoth is beautiful and has great depth. Get in there and use it ... I think you'll be surprised at how it works with your intuition.

[fyreflye]

Both Waite and Crowley were members of the Golden Dawn, where they first learned Tarot from Book T, so it's not surprising that their cards reflect similar meanings.  If you want to use

RWS card descriptions for the Thoth I'm sure you could find useful answers as to whether someone's estranged boyfriend will come back or whether you'll get that job you want - typical questions asked by clients.  But you'll be missing something.  A Big something.

[Trogon]

Both Waite and Crowley were members of the Golden Dawn, where they first learned Tarot from Book T, so it's not surprising that their cards reflect similar meanings.  If you want to use

RWS card descriptions for the Thoth I'm sure you could find useful answers as to whether someone's estranged boyfriend will come back or whether you'll get that job you want - typical questions asked by clients.  But you'll be missing something.  A Big something.

 

I know you're right about missing things with the Thoth. It is much deeper than what I've done with it so far and I've brushed up against that depth a few times now. It is intriguing when you're doing a self-reading with the Thoth and suddenly catch a glimpse of something far beyond what you were doing. That is why I did get "The Book of Thoth" and will be delving much deeper. In the meantime ... I've got a bit of personal work to do before I get there. ;)

[foolMoon]

It is possible to use Thoth Tarot intuitively without any knowledge of the Esoteric knowledge for certain type of questions. However, reading up some esoteric books on Qabbalah, Tree of Life,  Magick and Astrology can expand and deepen the Thoth Tarot scope into the unknown world :)

[foolMoon]

Banzhaf's Thoth Tarot books are good for divinational studies. Also Snuffin's Thoth Companion is a good book to add as well.

[pacificwaters]

It is possible to use Thoth Tarot intuitively without any knowledge of the Esoteric knowledge for certain type of questions. However, reading up some esoteric books on Qabbalah, Tree of Life,  Magick and Astrology can expand and deepen the Thoth Tarot scope into the unknown world :)

 

I doubt if the actual depth of the Thoth would be explored then. I tried myself without much success so started exploring astrology and kabbalah to understand Thoth better. However I am sure stalwarts here might have a better take

[Trogon]

I am using the Thoth Tarot for my Deck of the Week this week (and probably for a couple of weeks after this). I did pick up Duquette's "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot" Kindle edition, I've almost always got my phone or laptop when studying a deck. But, I'll also be delving into the Thoth as I work through the Haindl Tarot for the 78 Weeks study. I do like Duquette's use of plainer language, but I am also getting a lot from Crowley's book.

 

In any case, I have done a few self-readings with the Thoth this week. The readings seem to tend more towards looking into myself, delving into spiritual aspects of the topic in question. A couple of times, I have kind of been prompted by a card to delve deeper into that card in the books, looking at meanings beyond what I might normally see. The Thoth Tarot just seems to go beyond what many other decks do. It may take you a bit more work to "get" this deck, but I think it is well worth it.

[EmpyreanKnight]

I have many Tarot decks, but the Thoth is the one I always keep coming back to. It is my go-to deck, and it's the one I'd usually reach for when I have a very important personal concern. It's absolutely gorgeous, and whenever I gaze at the images I seem to fall into a warm and welcoming place - a fount of wisdom I can always learn from. It's ceaselessly fascinating, and I love it so much that I have it in all three sizes. This is the sort of relationship that lasts, betokened by a knot that binds tighter than the bonds of karma.

[EmpyreanKnight]

Liber 777 - does anyone have a link for download? I can't find a complete one.

 

Here you go

 

I know that extensive revisions have been done to the Liber 777 in 1955, and this ebook has included these.

[katrinka]

It is possible to use Thoth Tarot intuitively without any knowledge of the Esoteric knowledge for certain type of questions. However, reading up some esoteric books on Qabbalah, Tree of Life,  Magick and Astrology can expand and deepen the Thoth Tarot scope into the unknown world :)

 

I doubt if the actual depth of the Thoth would be explored then. I tried myself without much success so started exploring astrology and kabbalah to understand Thoth better. However I am sure stalwarts here might have a better take

 

Angeles Arrien tried to read the Thoth intuitively and wrote a book about it. We see how that turned out.  >:(

 

Advice for noobs:

 

You can't absorb everything at once, it's impossible.

I'd suggest keeping the Book of Thoth handy.

And at least read The Equinox Vol. 1 No. 8, 777, as much Crowley as you can take.

Duquette is good for preliminaries.

This website is excellent http://www.corax.com/tarot/cards/index.html?swords-ace

 

Just read the stuff. Don't try to remember all of it, you won't. At this point you just need to know where Crowley was coming from.

Now pick one thing to work on. Most of us like to get to the reading part ASAP,  so card meanings are good. Study those.

It might be a long time before you're thinking in terms of paths and elemental dignities, that's OK. You're reading the deck, and if you're doing that there's a good chance you'll stay with it. As time goes by, the other stuff should fall in place gradually, by osmosis.

[pacificwaters]

Just read the stuff. Don't try to remember all of it, you won't. At this point you just need to know where Crowley was coming from.

Now pick one thing to work on. Most of us like to get to the reading part ASAP,  so card meanings are good. Study those.

It might be a long time before you're thinking in terms of paths and elemental dignities, that's OK. You're reading the deck, and if you're doing that there's a good chance you'll stay with it. As time goes by, the other stuff should fall in place gradually, by osmosis.

 

That's a very good advice. Experiencing it myself!

 

On a side note, I did buy The Equinox Vol. 1 No. 8 before starting with DuQuette. However, I found DuQuette lucid so I switched to it, but I guess I need to dust off the cobwebs around the former and brush up on it as well...

[sandrang123]

The Thoth deck is a deeply rich and penetrating deck. I have found it fairly accessible in terms of reading from it, with the caveat that I still find it holds many secrets to discover, and that this deck deserves years of contemplation and study.

 

I read from it often but not as a go-to deck. I already have a lot of occult/psychic markers in my natal chart (and Pluto sits dead on my ascendant at 29 degrees 59 seconds 12th house, conjunct 0 degree, 12 second ascendant). I find that if I use the deck regularly, I channel more readily. I also have very odd dreams which I have associated with using this deck. (I mean, my "dreams" are pretty odd to begin with, but they are odder when using this deck regularly.)

 

I would approach the deck with a high degree of humility and, if new to reading and "just playing around", perhaps a note of caution.

 

 

[EmpyreanKnight]

This year I plan to gain a deeper, more intimate knowledge of the Thoth by furthering and being much more serious in my studies, creating a more detailed journal, finally facing the Book of Thoth itself, and acquiring and imbibing more helpful resources. I also feel like it is high time that I heighten my knowledge of the Qabalah to complement my Thoth journey. I have to make sure that I don't turn into a mere dilettante.

 

I wonder if anyone here is also planning to begin or recommence their exploration of the Thoth too.

[katrinka]

"Recommence"? Did anyone ever stop?  ;D

 

This year I plan to gain a deeper, more intimate knowledge of the Thoth by furthering and being much more serious in my studies, creating a more detailed journal, finally facing the Book of Thoth itself, and acquiring and imbibing more helpful resources. I also feel like it is high time that I heighten my knowledge of the Qabalah to complement my Thoth journey. I have to make sure that I don't turn into a mere dilettante.

 

That's why I don't use it for paid readings, I'm not there yet. I can read it and tell you what's going to happen, and it works, but I have a long way to go with the paths and elemental dignities and whatnot.

 

I like using it for myself though. I pick things up best that way. I do better using the deck and occasionally reading bits of the BoT, or looking things up as needed. That's when the little light tends to come on.  :) If I made a formal thing of it - study, take notes, etc. I'd probably zone out like I was back in school thinking about the dance while the teacher droned on and on.  ;D That's my wiring though. YMMV.

[EmpyreanKnight]

I may have stalled in my progress on the Thoth when I focused on other decks, so I'm planning to serenade it again. ;)

 

And oh katrinka, me too! I only ever use it for self-readings since I feel like the Thoth doesn't want to read for other people, bar my family or people I deeply care for. I believe that it has depths I have not yet tapped, and the best way to do this would be to explore its more esoteric principles. I know that I can glean so much more if I go beyond the basics at its surface.

 

That said, I too believe that we all have our own learning styles. As long as it works for us, it's A-OK. :)

[CharlotteK]

I've only just started to scratch the surface of Kabbalah and astrology so reading with Thoth for me takes a lot of research and reading to try and place every card in that context. It's a very slow process but I think the only way is to stick at it. I decided this year to do a little bit of weekly Thoth looking into all the kabbalah/elements/planets etc associations every week and hope it eventually seeps in!

 

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