Shuffling big cards

[Ratty]

I'm used to shuffling playing cards. Even with these I find the standard shuffle, moving cards to the front and back of the deck takes ages to get them random. I prefer to riffle shuffle.

 

My RWS deck is slightly larger as well as having lots more cards and I can only just riffle, by splitting the pack into four and doing two riffles. I'm not using reverses at the moment so I have to riffle vertically to keep the card's orientation, which is harder than riffle shuffling horizontally.

 

Now I'm thinking about buying the new Lo Scarabeo Visconti Modrone deck, which is larger still. One of the things holding me back is worry that I just won't be able to shuffle them properly. The cards look too pretty to riffle (which involves bending the cards) and I'm not sure how well they'd fit in my hands for a standard shuffle.

 

I even did a RWS spread to see if I'd buy them and it said I would conquer my fear and do it. But I still have no idea how I'll shuffle them, and I'm worrying they'll just stay in the box, only brought out occasionally to admire.

 

Has anyone experience of using large decks who can speak to my worry? Practical or just pretty?

[Page of Ghosts]

I think you will learn how to riffle shuffle decks in the size of the RWS with some practice and patience. I started learning the riffle shuffle with that size of deck and while it was a bit hard I was diligent about it and now I'm a proper riffle shuffling demon  >:D I haven't found a good solution decks bigger than that though... the riffle is my absolute favourite but it's very hard with my medium sized hands to do decks like the Deviant Moon and the Medieval Scapini. I just acquired the new edition of the Enchanted Tarot and while it is easily one of the prettiest decks I own the cards are humongous! I will find a way... somehow. It's too beautiful to not be used! Maybe I need a new technique or something.

 

ETA: I don't use reversals usually either so I've modified the riffle to account for that. I still riffle with the short sides against each other, but I think there originally is some rotation of one of the piles involved. I don't rotate, I just take one half from the top of the deck, move it to my right side and then I riffle so that the lower part of the image in right-most pile meets the top part of the image in the left pile. I hope this makes sense, this way I don't get any reversed cards and if one against all odds should show up it's an extra special card ;)

[Clairbuoyant]

I'm used to shuffling playing cards. Even with these I find the standard shuffle, moving cards to the front and back of the deck takes ages to get them random. I prefer to riffle shuffle.

 

My RWS deck is slightly larger as well as having lots more cards and I can only just riffle, by splitting the pack into four and doing two riffles. I'm not using reverses at the moment so I have to riffle vertically to keep the card's orientation, which is harder than riffle shuffling horizontally.

 

Now I'm thinking about buying the new Lo Scarabeo Visconti Modrone deck, which is larger still. One of the things holding me back is worry that I just won't be able to shuffle them properly. The cards look too pretty to riffle (which involves bending the cards) and I'm not sure how well they'd fit in my hands for a standard shuffle.

 

I even did a RWS spread to see if I'd buy them and it said I would conquer my fear and do it. But I still have no idea how I'll shuffle them, and I'm worrying they'll just stay in the box, only brought out occasionally to admire.

 

Has anyone experience of using large decks who can speak to my worry? Practical or just pretty?

 

I started with an RWS sized deck. I bought a couple decks - Oracle and tarot - that were larger and i never got into a comfortable feel shuffling them.  I’d lose concentration on my Q while I shuffled when cards slipped out of my hand or I didn’t feel I was circulating the cards thoroughly enough.

 

Time will tell how you adjust to the RW size. I will say I prefer smaller decks, including playing cards.

If you’re looking for smaller sized tarot decks to try, I know the Robin Wood and Hansen-Roberts decks are smaller., but not “mini” or “in a tin” size. I use my Hänsen Roberts a lot because the size of the cards is perfect for me.

[Ratty]

 

ETA: I don't use reversals usually either so I've modified the riffle to account for that. I still riffle with the short sides against each other, but I think there originally is some rotation of one of the piles involved. I don't rotate, I just take one half from the top of the deck, move it to my right side and then I riffle so that the lower part of the image in right-most pile meets the top part of the image in the left pile. I hope this makes sense, this way I don't get any reversed cards and if one against all odds should show up it's an extra special card ;)

 

You bet it makes sense. This is one of those doh! moments where I can't believe I didn't spot it myself. I'd found a suboptimal way that worked and stopped thinking. Thank you. Your way will be so much better. In fact I just tried it and can easily do the whole deck at once!

[Saturn Celeste]

I'm used to shuffling playing cards. Even with these I find the standard shuffle, moving cards to the front and back of the deck takes ages to get them random. I prefer to riffle shuffle.

 

Has anyone experience of using large decks who can speak to my worry? Practical or just pretty?

Hi Ratty and welcome to TT&M!  I'm a riffle shuffler myself, I feel the air in between the cards helps keep them cleared of energies.  And I have some large decks.  There are a few ways to shuffle really large decks.  My favorite way is to have a split deck and place them side by side vertically instead of horizontally.  Then turn each side so the corners will touch.  In other words, for the half on your left, your upper right corner will touch the upper left corner of the right side of the deck.  Then riffle corner to corner.  It takes a little positioning but once you do it, you'll see it's not that hard.  A similar method works for tall and wide decks.  When you have such a deck, instead of riffling corner to corner, hold them side by side vertically and shuffle them left side into the right side so they'll shuffle in the vertical position.

 

Something else I do is deal out the cards (face down) and make 4 stacks of cards.  You can then riffle the smaller stacks with each other if that's easier for you to handle at first.  This works well to really break up a deck.  Some people have all the cards face down on a table of floor and just move the cards around on the table mixing them up.  Some people put them in a paper bag and shake the bag but you might have some cards end up face up so you'll need to turn them over.  This all depends if you read with reversals.  Let me know if any of these methods work for you!  ^-^

[Ratty]

If you’re looking for smaller sized tarot decks to try, I know the Robin Wood and Hansen-Roberts decks are smaller., but not “mini” or “in a tin” size. I use my Hänsen Roberts a lot because the size of the cards is perfect for me.

I'm more wondering about handling really big decks, but maybe a smaller deck would be cool too, for train journeys or whatever. Thanks for the suggestion. I think my hands are average male size (mostly because my shoe size is, I've not measured or anything).

 

I've seen Robin Wood - not for me - so I just checked out Hanson-Roberts on You Tube. That looked a bit too small, even though I'm pretty sure the imagery would be fine.

 

 

[Ratty]

Let me know if any of these methods work for you!  ^-^

Thanks. The first two methods sound like exactly what I've been doing for RWS up until now, so I'll give that a try.

 

V-M is over 50% taller and 30% wider than RWS, and as the cards are foil embossed, the deck is probably considerably thicker too. I've just taken the plunge and paid up, but it's a kickstarter purchase, so it'll be a few months before they arrive.

 

 

[Guest Clotho]

I'm used to shuffling playing cards. Even with these I find the standard shuffle, moving cards to the front and back of the deck takes ages to get them random. I prefer to riffle shuffle.

 

My RWS deck is slightly larger as well as having lots more cards and I can only just riffle, by splitting the pack into four and doing two riffles. I'm not using reverses at the moment so I have to riffle vertically to keep the card's orientation, which is harder than riffle shuffling horizontally.

 

Now I'm thinking about buying the new Lo Scarabeo Visconti Modrone deck, which is larger still. One of the things holding me back is worry that I just won't be able to shuffle them properly. The cards look too pretty to riffle (which involves bending the cards) and I'm not sure how well they'd fit in my hands for a standard shuffle.

 

I even did a RWS spread to see if I'd buy them and it said I would conquer my fear and do it. But I still have no idea how I'll shuffle them, and I'm worrying they'll just stay in the box, only brought out occasionally to admire.

 

Has anyone experience of using large decks who can speak to my worry? Practical or just pretty?

 

Hi Ratty,

I have a suggestion. I don't actually shuffle my cards because I have Cerebral Palsy which affects my hands. I sort of developed my own way to do it.

 

I count the cards out into three piles. and then I (or the Querent)choose a stack to read from, whatever feels right.

 

ex. 1 2 3

      4 5 6

      7 8 9...etc.

 

I hope this helps! :)

 

 

 

[Page of Ghosts]

 

ETA: I don't use reversals usually either so I've modified the riffle to account for that. I still riffle with the short sides against each other, but I think there originally is some rotation of one of the piles involved. I don't rotate, I just take one half from the top of the deck, move it to my right side and then I riffle so that the lower part of the image in right-most pile meets the top part of the image in the left pile. I hope this makes sense, this way I don't get any reversed cards and if one against all odds should show up it's an extra special card ;)

 

You bet it makes sense. This is one of those doh! moments where I can't believe I didn't spot it myself. I'd found a suboptimal way that worked and stopped thinking. Thank you. Your way will be so much better. In fact I just tried it and can easily do the whole deck at once!

 

I'm glad I could be of help to you! I'm currently trying out the corner-shuffle thing SaturnCeleste mentioned and while it was a little awkward I think I could make it work with some practice or even be able to riffle with the long sides against each other. The Enchanted doesn't have super thick cardstock so it could be flexible enough for that.

 

I also use the pile-method for a new deck to properly break it up but I also like the idea by Clotho to use it as your primary method for big cards, even very fancy ones like the Visconti you mentioned since it's much gentler on the cards than our dear riffling  ^-^

[DanielJUK]

I have quite large hands but still struggle with some of those decks with very long and / or large cards! I find the over the hand shuffling where you just turn them in a hand even difficult if they are very large but that is what I mostly do!

 

Another idea about shuffling, you can put cards in a bag and shake and mix them up and then pull them out of the bag! Some larger carded tarot / oracles give you a bag to do this with them.

[ToadieOdie]

Another idea about shuffling, you can put cards in a bag and shake and mix them up and then pull them out of the bag! Some larger carded tarot / oracles give you a bag to do this with them.

 

 

 

I have small hands and I never thought to do this. I've always avoided decks with large sized cards because they're just so unwieldy. But if I got a nice decorative bag for this I may consider the larger cards in the future.

[Ratty]

I count the cards out into three piles. and then I (or the Querent)choose a stack to read from, whatever feels right.

 

ex. 1 2 3

      4 5 6

      7 8 9...etc.

 

I hope this helps! :)

 

Yes. It did. I gave a variation a try. I can deal the cards into however many piles I like. Collect them. Deal again to a different number of piles. Rinse and repeat.

 

It gives a slow but thorough shuffle and it can be used for any sized cards without damaging them, which I'm worried about with the cloth bag method. It also means I don't get reversals unless I want them.

 

Thanks, Clotho.

[Guest Clotho]

;D You're Welcome!

[Court de Gébelin]

Has anyone thought of using one of those card shuffling machines that I see bridge players using?  I know, I know, it's cold and impersonal, and the spiritual 'touch' is so important.  But I'm thinking the machine could be used to get the cards mixed up really well, as when you've been studying individual suits or the major arcana, and need to get those cards reintegrated into the deck.  Then, you could hand shuffle and cut as many times as you wished to re-establish the personal contact with the cards.  Just a thought.

[EmpyreanKnight]

I think my cards would be mortified if I foist an automatic card shuffler on them lol.

 

AFAIK tho, these machines are made for bridge-sized decks. Since Tarot cards are often bigger than those, would they be able to accommodate them?

[Lantana]

For my large decks, I've used the "fanning" technique. It still requires some messy shuffling, but since picking out the cards themselves isn't during the shuffling I'm more able to focus on my question.

 

I've also done something similar to Clotho's suggestion, but just to mix up a deck quicker since I'm an overhand shuffler and I can attest that it takes FOREVER to fully shuffle up a deck that way.

[EmpyreanKnight]

Regarding large decks, I have a number of them and they don't bother me at all even when I riffle shuffle. The one exception is the Madenié Marseille by Packard, and like some of the others here I shuffle it by the edges.

[Marisa Kirisame]

Dovetail shuffle is my to-go choice (which I learned when I started playing blackjack with my friends as the dealer). Reason - it looks coo! (xD)

But as I use reversed most of the time, I have to shuffle them in a large pile on the table at least once. And turn some cards upside down when I feel like it.

[Thoughtful]

l do admire you all being able to shuffle large cards.  My hands are small so l resort to my paper cutter and rounder  :D

Having said that l will not be trimming the Vincenti Modrone which will be huge.  So l will take on board your solutions here, thank you.

[DDwarks]

Doesn't riffle shuffling damage the cards???

I don't have issues with big cards. I just hold them vertically in my hand and over shuffle as usual.

[DanielJUK]

it's so nice to see you around here dear Thoughtful[/member]  <3

 

there is no easy solution but they are so gorgeous when they are big cards. However I do it, I have to handle them, in a bag, in different shuffle ways but I couldn't use an automated shuffling machine, it seems so wrong and impersonal  :))

[Marisa Kirisame]

Riffle shuffle can damage cards that bend easily (the ones without plastic base) if you aren't very-very careful. So does a big pile on the table (though it is more likely to damage card corners). Dovetail is a variation of a riffle shuffle that is less likely to damage cards.

 

Also, a good video on shuffling efficiency using basic probability calculations:

[Thoughtful]

it's so nice to see you around here dear Thoughtful[/member]  <3

 

 

Thank you Dan am getting aquainted with all the newness. Its a lovely forum.

 

[ToadieOdie]

Doesn't riffle shuffling damage the cards???

I don't have issues with big cards. I just hold them vertically in my hand and over shuffle as usual.

 

 

 

I had to look this term up. I didn't know that the way I usually shuffle is that this is called.

 

 

As far as damaging cards, it depends on a number of factors. This is true even with collectible card games. Like how forceful you are with the cards when you do it. Then there's the quality of the cardstock and how the cards are post treated.

 

 

Cardstock that is brittle or soft I wouldn't recommend this method of shuffling at all, nor would I recommend it for cardstock that has mushy edges. (Seriously, don't pound the side of your deck on the table.) In order for this method to work well, the edges need to be sharp and clean and the cardstock needs to be at least moderately stiff. You also want the cards to have a somewhat slick surface since too much friction will cause the cards to bind up during the bridge part of the shuffle. But... if they're too slick, they'll rocket out during that part if you're not careful.

 

 

My parents used to play in bridge games and pinochle when I was growing up and I remember that my dad would powder the cards every once in awhile with baby powder - very lightly - to keep them from sticking and to make shuffling easier with less damage. You can use talc or cornstarch too, but I wouldn't recommend the food based starch because of bugs. Mind you these were just poker cards, but the principle is the same. I have done it with Magic the Gathering cards in the past when I played the game a lot, but I've never needed to do it with any of my tarot decks. Even with the two decks that sat in storage for years. But that might have more to do with the way I stored them.

 

 

The biggest thing is making sure your hands are clean and dry when you handle your cards.

[EmpyreanKnight]

I'd still stick to riffle shuffling methinks. The act itself is quite meditative for me, and the tactile joy I feel doing it is just incomparable. Also, it only takes 8-9 riffle shuffles to fully randomize a 78-card Tarot deck (it's 7 for a 52-card bridge deck). I discussed it HERE before. Thanks to Marisa's video link, I now know that it requires at least 10000 overhand shuffles to fully randomize a deck (whut?). I know that it requires much more than a riffle shuffle, but I didn't know that the difference is to this extent.