Intuition vs Accuracy

[devin]

Some readers (like me) think of the relationship to the cards as a kind of communication "pact": the cards know you and they will use that card to make you think of this precise idea/event/person. (If they wanted to give the same message to someone else, they'd put it differently.) I'm a linguist and to me, a language is a system: the meaning of a word is a kind of shape, defined on all borders by the points where it encounters other words. (For example, in my mind, I can only define "love" as something that is somehow connected to and circumscribed by "affection", "friendship", "passion", "lust", "desire", etc.) To me the cards work in a similar way: the two of pentacles has an infinity of meanings, but they all make sense in relation with the other cards. If I get the 6/swords and try to articulate the precise meaning it has for me, I might compare it with the 8/cups, or perhaps with other 6s. I do rely on the images a lot (and this is my excuse for collecting decks  ;D), but my readings are never 100% intuition, because I think along the lines of this big web of meanings. The bigger and denser the web the better, and that's where books but also practice (journaling!) come in.

 

This is so beautifully put and I agree completely.  The meaning of the cards is, for me, to be found very directly in the images themselves and the ways in which they interact (I find Marseille decks particularly good for this) to form a tableau or visual story.

 

It really can be so simple: Who's looking where and with what gesture, motion, act, word association, etc.

 

It's pure magic. Love it.

 

Still, soaking up traditional associations has to be of great value in learning to 'read' the language.

 

Peace.

 

P.S. There are so may insightful responses in this thread.

[Thoughtful]

 

 

Some readers (like me) think of the relationship to the cards as a kind of communication "pact": the cards know you and they will use that card to make you think of this precise idea/event/person. (If they wanted to give the same message to someone else, they'd put it differently.)

 

 

l am with you here Styx this sums it up perfectly for me.

[Cobweb]

I agree.  You have to know what the rules are before you can break them.  So, in any creative endeavour, you have to have the necessary skills and knowledge at your disposal before you can start using those as tools to express yourself.

 

But then, for me, one of tarot's major delights is the symbology and the possibility of spending hours puzzling out hidden meanings.  So, for me, I love books.  :)

 

That's not to say that intuition isn't incredibly important - just that, for me, I need the "book meaning" as a jumping off point before the intuition can kick in.

[caat]

As I only started doing tarot a week ago, I am constantly questioning this and myself. I wonder if I reach for the guide book to soon but after trying a few things i might have found a way that works for me. I love reading the guide book and getting the meaning from there. but it is only a guide book. So I write down the meaning it gives me in short sentences and then reread it, looking at the card and combining it with the other cards. The relationship between the cards becomes more natural i feel like. I also change meanings to better fit the whole and take some different approaches from what i associate the card with at that given moment.

 

So I think the system is mostly to give you a head start and make it easier to begin. Anyone can do tarot readings right? But your intuition can give you the final push in the right direction. So use both I'd say

[Ratty]

I expected eventually people would answer the question they thought was being asked, rather than the one that was actually asked, but I didn't think they'd still be going a month and a half later. So a reminder of the question.

 

It is NOT about intuition vs the book.

 

The question is what happens when you get it wrong? When you give a reading based on the Devil representing Gemini because you forgot it was Capricorn? What if you are told the Hebrew letter nun represents a fish, which it doesn't, and you give a fish-based reading? (This is the assertion Crowley makes in the Book of Thoth that prompted the original question.)

 

Can you say, well the Devil doesn't normally represent Gemini but for this reading it does?

 

Can you say, that in the Thoth deck the letter nun really does represent a fish, even though it didn't used to?

 

So by all means answer whatever question you want -- all opinions are welcome, but if anyone also fancies answering the original question, you can feel free to do that too.  :)

[Jewel]

~chuckles~ Ok so you totally cracked me up in your effort to refocus the thread  >:D

 

So my answer, to what I think is your question is this - if you are reading a single card I would say no.  If you feel strongly the card is wrong then you are opting for being psychic over reading the card.  But nothing in tarot is just black and white. Usually readings are done in the context of a spread, they no longer are a "pure meaning" of the card itself, they become part of a tapestry and are affected by (a) the question, (b) the spread position, © other cards in the spread.  So context and influences are going to modify meanings of specific cards (this is where intuition steps in).

 

OK my head hurts now ....  ;D

[sandrang123]

Yeah, Ratty is brilliant that way. Lol. I don't know why he or she solicits feedback at all!

 

~chuckles~ Ok so you totally cracked me up in your effort to refocus the thread  >:D

 

So my answer, to what I think is your question is this - if you are reading a single card I would say no.  If you feel strongly the card is wrong they you are opting for being psychic over reading the card.  But nothing in tarot is just black and white. Usually readings are done in the context of a spread, they no longer are a "pure meaning" of the card itself, they become part of a tapestry and are affected by (a) the question, (b) the spread position, © other cards in the spread.  So context and influences are going to modify meanings of specific cards.

 

OK my head hurts now ....  ;D

[Page of Ghosts]

I expected eventually people would answer the question they thought was being asked, rather than the one that was actually asked, but I didn't think they'd still be going a month and a half later. So a reminder of the question.

 

It is NOT about intuition vs the book.

 

The question is what happens when you get it wrong? When you give a reading based on the Devil representing Gemini because you forgot it was Capricorn? What if you are told the Hebrew letter nun represents a fish, which it doesn't, and you give a fish-based reading? (This is the assertion Crowley makes in the Book of Thoth that prompted the original question.)

 

Can you say, well the Devil doesn't normally represent Gemini but for this reading it does?

 

Can you say, that in the Thoth deck the letter nun really does represent a fish, even though it didn't used to?

 

So by all means answer whatever question you want -- all opinions are welcome, but if anyone also fancies answering the original question, you can feel free to do that too.  :)

 

Lol, I don't know much about all of those things you use as examples so I guess I'm a lost cause X-D

 

No, I consider myself more a book-person than intuition-person, but our areas of interest are different :)) I'm not cut out for all this deep occult study, fun as it seems, so I have other knowledge I base my readings on. Intuition needs a spark or three to kick in for me so I usually use the regular associations I have for the cards and then look deeper in the image to see if any part of it calls out to me. It's a collaborative work for me.. and now I see I'm doing the thing I was not supposed to do! But basically my philosophy is that tarot, in my experience at least, is more fluid than you suggest and the cards are usually right. It's human error if I interpret something in a way that doesn't make sense for the person I'm reading for.

 

As I was thinking about the fish-based reading this song came up in my spotify playlist, by the way ;)

[Saturn Celeste]

The question is what happens when you get it wrong? When you give a reading based on the Devil representing Gemini because you forgot it was Capricorn? What if you are told the Hebrew letter nun represents a fish, which it doesn't, and you give a fish-based reading? (This is the assertion Crowley makes in the Book of Thoth that prompted the original question.)

 

Can you say, well the Devil doesn't normally represent Gemini but for this reading it does?

 

Can you say, that in the Thoth deck the letter nun really does represent a fish, even though it didn't used to?

If I get the reading wrong I apologize, and ask them if they'd like a rereading and I learn from my mistake.  It happens although I have to admit it hasn't happened in awhile but it does happen.  Getting back to intuition, many times I get a strong feeling when I am reading someone and follow that too much without keeping focused on their actual situation.  I have to remember to tone it down until I am satisfied I've read the cards and received the message.  Then if I want to add my intuition I do so.  Also what else I have started doing now is to open the reading with my "My gut reaction" (My intuitive reading) and then I'll go into the next part of the reading "By the Book" and break each card down for them.  This has really been working out great, especially for the Celtic Crosses I've been doing lately.

[Ratty]

Yeah, Ratty is brilliant that way. Lol. I don't know why he or she solicits feedback at all!

Because I make mistakes almost like ordinary people.  :P

[Ratty]

If I get the reading wrong I apologize, and ask them if they'd like a rereading and I learn from my mistake.  It happens although I have to admit it hasn't happened in awhile but it does happen.

 

I must admit, that's given me a lot to think about. I haven't read much, but in a recent reading I nearly messed up. So when this thread reappeared, I thought why not ask again?

 

I'm thinking if I move on to TdM, which I'd like to at some point, how easy it would be to misread one pip as another.

[Saturn Celeste]

If I get the reading wrong I apologize, and ask them if they'd like a rereading and I learn from my mistake.  It happens although I have to admit it hasn't happened in awhile but it does happen.

 

I must admit, that's given me a lot to think about. I haven't read much, but in a recent reading I nearly messed up. So when this thread reappeared, I thought why not ask again?

 

I'm thinking if I move on to TdM, which I'd like to at some point, how easy it would be to misread one pip as another.

You'll get used to the difference between the sword handles and the wand handles.  I recommend you consider the Medieval Scapini deck found here:

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/medieval-scapini/

It has 'kindof' illustrated pip cards but still has the Marseilles feel.  It makes a great transitory deck between the two styles!

[Avalon]

Newbie's 2 cents...

 

It all depends on how focus you are on the reading and it has nothing to do with experience.

It is the connection you have with your sitter and the connection you have with your deck.

If you were absent minded and missed read during the reading because you were thinking about XYZ/can't connect, it has nothing to do with intuition.

If you are new or you over estimated your skills and you are too embarrassed to pull out the book.  This is not intuition.

But if you are completely focused and you are absolutely confident in your understanding of the cards, THE Universe will communicate the way The Universe wants to.  Then, IMO it will be accurate no matter what was said i.e. verbatim to the book/card or random gut feelings. 

 

Ok, break is over...

[DownUnderNZer]

 

No one is accurate 100% of the time and there is always some amount of intuition used once a person knows meanings.

 

Especially Tarot.

 

Other forms of Divination as well of course.

 

I can read under high stress as well as when I am calm and focused. Both about the same - nothing compromised or lacking. However, for others more so than myself unless I can stay objective.

 

Tested it on AT a number of times as I wanted to know - no different. Never off and quite on to it.

 

I do not need to mediate, burn candles, chant galore or have alters and crystals to put me in that head space either. Nor names or birthdates.

 

Some do.

 

I think it just comes down to the person, what s/he knows, experience and intent.

 

Not everyone can be read or sometimes there is no rapport. In my life time that has only happened twice. An Irish lass and my own mother - both times were palm readings.

 

Looking back now at the Irish girl - I think I put her on the spot. She was on the defensive and broke out in a sweat.  Very uncomfortable. I think it was too close to home for her. I do not think it was off based on her behaviour.

 

As for my mother - I knew her life and her palm was the only one that I ever came across that was the complete opposite of her life! Stopped after that.

 

It all depends I reckon. Unlike some say though - I reckon some out there are more accurate than the % allows.

 

 

DND  <3

[devin]

I'm thinking if I move on to TdM, which I'd like to at some point, how easy it would be to misread one pip as another.

Imo, not very. I can be a shocking muddle head and find it pretty hard to mix the pips up. For one thing, swords are curved and batons (wands) are straight. Also, most of 'em are numbered and you quickly learn to recognise the feel of each image (they're very well designed that way).

 

On your question: Y'know, there's something to be said for the, "whatever I say right now is the right thing for now," approach, and I have made mistakes before and had them work out (even on an accuracy level).

 

Still, you're right, there must be a line somewhere.

 

Now, if you're using a system that has a historical or whatever mistake in it, this, to me, is no problem. Part of the magic of Tarot is its ability to absorb overlays and give you back something useful... the important thing (if that's your thing) is to stick to your chosen system.

 

So, go on, work it like the Tarot was invented by the High Lamas of ancient Atlantis and read your coins as the flying disks of Mu.

 

:)