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What do you like about TdM/historical decks?


Flaxen

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I was spending some time looking at a few of my historical decks and got out some cards to compare. Most of my historical decks are stored away but these ones were at hand.

 

5270382b97fdf13f7f11d03b0ebcc79a.jpg

 

The top row are: Mamanmiyuki, Tarot de Marsella and CBD TdM

 

Bottom row: Vieville and Noblet

 

What I love is how the same card looks so different. The Mamanmiyuki and CBD versions are smiling and look quite approachable. The Marsella Queen looks a little bored.

The Vieville looks a bit grumpy to me while the Noblet gives off quite an authoritative air.  The latter two don’t look like ladies you want to mess with. [emoji4]

 

This is one of the great attractions for me in collecting the reproductions and restorations. These little differences mean a slightly different spin on a reading.

 

Aesthetically, the sharper lines and colours of the restorations are more appealing at first glance but I can’t resist the charm of the fuzzy lines in facsimiles.

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Beautiful sampling!

 

What I love about historical decks? Well- it is the history of them for one. The idea that something that beautiful was used so long ago and created with such care with resources that are a far cry from ours.

 

I also love reading with the pips- it allows me to be less confined to the imagery you get on the scenic minors but at the same time it seems easier to get details that are pertinent to living.

 

I love the modern Marseille types too! As well as the reconstructions. The facsimile ones- well, I haven't found one I love. To me, when it looks that old, I want a linen or thick stock to match and haven't come across it.

 

But overall- I am a big yes and have gained an appreciation for these decks. Looking forward to getting the new LoS Visconti to round out the pack.

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EmpyreanKnight

Firstly, I really like the aesthetics of many historical decks. I love how mysterious they look, how the characters seem to smile enigmatically at me with an all-knowing look that suggests the weight of centuries worth of hidden wisdom waiting to be unlocked by those brave enough to try. I like how they hearken to an older age, how they inspire a delicious reverie just by gazing at them, and how they sometimes make me think that I've actually seen and handled them before when I can swear I haven't, ever.

 

I'm a huge fan of decks from the English school - they're my favorites, I work with them often and very fruitfully too if I may add. But there's this inexpressible longing that sweeps upon me whenever I handle historical Tarot. One day I'm going to lounge in their perfumed salons and indulge myself in the deep and exquisite ecstasies that their contemplation will offer. ^-^

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Firstly, I really like the aesthetics of many historical decks. I love how mysterious they look, how the characters seem to smile enigmatically at me with an all-knowing look that suggests the weight of centuries worth of hidden wisdom waiting to be unlocked by those brave enough to try. I like how they hearken to an older age, how they inspire a delicious reverie just by gazing at them, and how they sometimes make me think that I've actually seen and handled them before when I can swear I haven't, ever.

 

Yes! It feels like the centuries just drop away and I can’t help wondering how the contemporary people viewed them. Were the depictions as mysterious to them? Something vaguely familiar but whose meaning had been lost?

 

What I love about historical decks? Well- it is the history of them for one. The idea that something that beautiful was used so long ago and created with such care with resources that are a far cry from ours.

 

I also love reading with the pips- it allows me to be less confined to the imagery you get on the scenic minors but at the same time it seems easier to get details that are pertinent to living.

 

The history of them such a big draw and how the depictions of the trumps vary in time and place. I’m quite fond of the cabbage moon in the Vandenborre-Bacchus.

 

Totally get what you say about reading with the pips. I find it flows easily from one card to the next and each reading turns up something slightly different.

 

When I spend time with these older decks, I wonder why I collect the modern RWS clones and I think ‘why don’t I just cull them and pass them on?’ So far I’ve refrained from acting on that impulse...[emoji23]

 

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l only have a few TdM decks but my favourite at the moment is the 1JJ Swiss possibly because it was my first foray into historical decks. 

What l like about historical decks is that they are so steeped in history. l Love looking through the cards, and like to imagine the people who brought them into existence.  Who made them, who used them, who played with them.  l cannot wait for the Visconti Modrone to arrive in February, it promises to be a sumptuous deck, l know l will get lost in the imagery, l can already feel and hear the echoes of an ancient past beckoning to me. To have that deck in my hands and be transported to a bygone medieval age will be magical.

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What I like about TdM/historical decks - oh god, where to begin!! Firstly, as others have mentioned, I much prefer reading with pips. They help the majors really stand out in a reading IMO, and they're what I learnt to read with, so they have a nostalgic value for me as a reader too. The work and care that went into creating them using the most basic technology also really impresses me, and I'm convinced the energies and personalities of the card makers survive in their respective decks. For example, I'm convinced that Claude Burdel was the sort of person who was a great judge of character and knew what was in people's hearts, because I feel so inclined to use a version of his deck for this sort of reading!

 

The older I get the more I'm tending to want to go for historical pip decks, or modern derivatives, because they feel like such a fit for me. I've got my eye on the Perrin and am still praying that someone, somewhere will do a repro of the Jean-Baptiste Madinie (the Tarot Gods must surely have heard my plea by now lol! :))) I'm gaining an appreciation of the 1JJ Swiss too, who feels to me now like a sensible and very wise grandfatherly figure who'll keep my feet firmly on the ground (LOVE Justice in that deck too - she looks like such a powerhouse!)

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I'm gaining an appreciation of the 1JJ Swiss too, who feels to me now like a sensible and very wise grandfatherly figure who'll keep my feet firmly on the ground (LOVE Justice in that deck too - she looks like such a powerhouse!)

 

Oh my goodness you have taken the words right out of my mouth.  That is exactly the feeling l get when l use the deck. Have always felt a beloved fatherly figure with this deck.  l feel so comfortable and nurtured, like snuggling up with a hot chocolate  on a winters night. Whenever l get the deck out its like coming home, l feel so warm and happy. 

 

So glad to know l am not the only one who has this same sense and feeling  <3

 

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Saturn Celeste

I learned to read tarot on the JJSwiss and I'll always love that deck.  I also like the Camion by Jodorowsky, that reads beautifully as well and his book is wonderful!

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I'm gaining an appreciation of the 1JJ Swiss too, who feels to me now like a sensible and very wise grandfatherly figure who'll keep my feet firmly on the ground (LOVE Justice in that deck too - she looks like such a powerhouse!)

 

Oh my goodness you have taken the words right out of my mouth.  That is exactly the feeling l get when l use the deck. Have always felt a beloved fatherly figure with this deck.  l feel so comfortable and nurtured, like snuggling up with a hot chocolate  on a winters night. Whenever l get the deck out its like coming home, l feel so warm and happy. 

 

So glad to know l am not the only one who has this same sense and feeling  <3

 

Oh you're exactly right - I imagine he lives in an Alpine village, and smokes one of those huge Germanic-type pipes, has a very large moustache, and would give you the most indescribably good hot chocolate made by some fine Swiss chocolate manufacturer, in one of those cups that's like a cereal bowl with a handle on lol! :)) <3

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Oh you're exactly right - I imagine he lives in an Alpine village, and smokes one of those huge Germanic-type pipes, has a very large moustache, and would give you the most indescribably good hot chocolate made by some fine Swiss chocolate manufacturer, in one of those cups that's like a cereal bowl with a handle on lol! :)) <3

 

 

Oh l am drooling  :)

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I learned to read tarot on the JJSwiss and I'll always love that deck.  I also like the Camion by Jodorowsky, that reads beautifully as well and his book is wonderful!

 

 

Going to look this deck up now.

Ack I misspelled it!  Camoin!

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/marseilles/

 

 

This made me laugh, as Camion is "truck" in Spanish, and as you know Jodorowsky is Argentinian. The Truck Tarot by Jodorowsky would have been an interesting deck!  :biggrin:

 

 

I wish he could have been able to make his version of Dune. What a movie THAT would have been! For starters, Salvador Dali was going to play the Emperor, and Orson Welles, Baron Harkonnen...

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Saturn Celeste

I wish he could have been able to make his version of Dune. What a movie THAT would have been! For starters, Salvador Dali was going to play the Emperor, and Orson Welles, Baron Harkonnen...

We bought this in 2014.

https://www.amazon.com/Jodorowskys-Dune-Blu-ray-Nicolas-Refn/dp/B00J5LXMTG/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1MN5CT4C3ZC0B&keywords=jodorowsky+dune&qid=1550101944&s=gateway&sprefix=jodoro%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-2

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I wish he could have been able to make his version of Dune. What a movie THAT would have been! For starters, Salvador Dali was going to play the Emperor, and Orson Welles, Baron Harkonnen...

We bought this in 2014.

https://www.amazon.com/Jodorowskys-Dune-Blu-ray-Nicolas-Refn/dp/B00J5LXMTG/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1MN5CT4C3ZC0B&keywords=jodorowsky+dune&qid=1550101944&s=gateway&sprefix=jodoro%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-2

 

 

I discovered it only recently. Awesome documentary, and it makes you realize how much David Lynch's demented movie owed to Jodorowsly's even MORE demented vision...

 

 

Conversely, it sort of illuminates in hindsight Jodorowsky's Tarot work.

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Saturn Celeste

I discovered it only recently. Awesome documentary, and it makes you realize how much David Lynch's demented movie owed to Jodorowsly's even MORE demented vision...

 

 

Conversely, it sort of illuminates in hindsight Jodorowsky's Tarot work.

 

It's been since 2014 I watched it, I'll need to have another go at it and look for the tarot illumination.  I have his tarot book also and it's really interesting!  When it comes to demented movies, that's fine with me. ;)

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l only have a few TdM decks but my favourite at the moment is the 1JJ Swiss

 

1JJ Swiss  - not TdM deck.... ;)

 

We would count it as a historical deck for reading circles here - and Flaxen was writing about historical decks, not JUST TdM, which are a narrow version of all the historicals available  :)

:)

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I've just re-switched now, permanently, to my TdM's. I guess the only re-pros I have are the Camoin-Jodorowski decks because they just get to the details of the original Marseilles decks which seem to have been whittled away over the centuries and I like the tall size of them. I actually have three decks by them. I would like to get a re-pro deck of the really early cards but I like the cards to be on the larger side. There's just something far more positive about TdM decks.

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l only have a few TdM decks but my favourite at the moment is the 1JJ Swiss

 

1JJ Swiss  - not TdM deck.... ;)

 

TdM is a pattern, not a geographical location, as the term "Tarot de Marseilles" was adopted by Grimaud in the 1930's (see http://l-pollett.tripod.com/cards43.htm ). 1JJ simply does a Juno-Jupiter switcheroo, hence the "JJ". Other than that it's derivative of the Besançon TdM pattern...

 

On topic and on point: Why I like historical, or the TdM pattern, decks is because you have so many options to choose from.

I mean, geez, look at the link I provided. To one day have a collection like that!  >:D There are so many variants, from 1JJ to the Minchiate. The RWS and clones can seem limited after a while.

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On 5/15/2019 at 9:41 PM, Annabelle said:

I love the freedom of TdM decks -- reading with them is logical and straightforward. I don't have to sift through an artist's scenic vision of a card; I don't have to sift through layers of add-on symbolism. 

Precisely. To me, TdM is pure tarot. With other decks, I always felt there were layers between me and my readings that I had to peel my way through. With TdM, it's just me and the cards, and that's the way I like it. I've had the best reactions from customers from TdM readings, and I've felt the most clarity and confidence when using TdM. 🙂 

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