Why not Kabbalah?

[Ratty]

 

But see, in a study group, someone at least has to set the agenda. If anyone will just post whatever topic they want under a Kabbalah sub for example, it's no longer a study group - it just becomes a Kabbalah section. There must at least be some consensus on what will be covered so that prospective participants would know what to expect.

 

 

Fair enough. I hadn't appreciated the difference until you explained it. Perhaps we should take suggestions for topics. Then if enough people are interested, we can ask for the group to be set up.

 

Here's a suggestion. If we do one a week it'll take us to Christmas. I've front-loaded the basic kabbalistic concepts into the first five weeks, as I expect we all have some familiarity with tarot, but the same isn't true of Kabbalah. I've missed out some topics such as Gematria (numerology) as it's not that essential to tarot, and added in some non-kabbalah, especially in topic four, as it's so intertwined with GD's esotericism, I doubt we could do without it.

 

1 What is Kabbalah and How Does it Relate to Tarot Historically

2 What are the 22 letters of the Hebrew Alphabet and What do they Mean

3 Creation (part one): the 10 Sefirot and the Four (Five) Worlds

4 Getting Hermetic. As above, so below. As below, so above. Pathwalking. The Rose-Cross.

5 Creation (part two): the Four (Five) parts of the Soul, and The Four (Five) Elements and The Four (Five) suits.

6 The Trees of Life and the Lurianic Tarot

7 The Day of Judgement and a Thousand Years of the Chariot.

8 Gender-Bending. Partzufim and the Court Cards. Klipot and Reversals.

9 The Supernal Triad and its Majors

10 The Second Triad and its Majors

11 The Lower Triad and its Majors

12 Malkut and Da'at, the two odd-bods and their relationship to the supernals.

13 Aces and Tens; Pages and Princesses.

14 Twos and Threes; Kings and Queens

15 Fours, Fives and Sixes; Knights

16 Sevens, Eights and Nines

[Ratty]

As tumbleweeds have been tumbling through this thread since I made a suggested syllabus, I'm going to guess that's not because everyone is so stunned by its brilliance they could suggest no improvements.

 

So I've decided to proceed with kabbalah self-study in journal form. Cobweb[/member] feel free to ask as many questions there as you want. A good question is often more useful than a good answer.

 

We can always convert to a study group later if others want to join in.

[Cobweb]

Ratty[/member]  Oh no, I've not been online very much (it's been evil at work and my tarot time has been non-existent) and now tumbleweeds are blowing through the thread...  :'(

 

Thank you so much to you and Rose Lalonde[/member] for answering the first of my questions.  I had wondered whether it was a transliteration point and it's good to have a satisfactory answer.  Now to decide how to spell it for myself!

 

I would love it if we can get a study group going and Ratty's syllabus looks fab...    Is anyone else up for it?  ( In the meantime, will check out Ratty's own thread.)

[fire cat pickles]

On 8/14/2018 at 10:46 PM, EmpyreanKnight said:

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The kabbalistic correspondences are that the minors reflect the Sefirot, while the majors reflect the paths. If you try to put both systems together, you'd get a correspondence between the ten Sefirot and the majors too. But it doesn't quite fit.

 

Keter = Ace = Magician

Chochma = 2 = High Priestess

Binah = 3 = Empress

Chesed = 4 = Emperor

G'vurah = 5 = Hierophant

Tiferet = 6 = The Lovers

Netzach = 7 = The Chariot

Hod = 8 = Strength

Yesod = 9 = Hermit

Malkut = 10 = Fortune

 

All just about okay, apart from the Emperor and perhaps the Hierophant. The idea that Aries goes with loving kindness and unthinking generosity doesn't really fly.

 

You're right Ratty, this is quite strange. Following this would mean that, for example, The Magician is not only Kether, but the path between Kether and Binah as well. As per the table above, Binah corresponds to The Empress. Why should the Path of Beth be attributed to The Magician and not to The Empress?

 

This is incorrect. It is not as simple as this. This is perhaps why I haven't really gotten too involved in the the Kabbalah in Tarot.

 

I have attached a file with combined images from The Qabalistic Tarot, by Robert Wang.

Edited May 3, 2019 by fire cat pickles

[Deian]

Hi,

I have studied this a little. I think most people give up, because the arrangements on the Tree doesn't seem to make sense outside of the first and last few steps. Of major arcana that is. There are alternative ones, however, there were there the whole time, but were... Difficult to notice.
 

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So I guess I have no conclusion. If anyone else fancies delving a little into kabbalah, I'll be happy to join in. Perhaps we could get a study group forum. Even if not, I'll keep looking into kaballah and eventually alchemy too. Because why not?

That can be interesting direction. Will post some stuff that can, hopefully help somewhat.

Major arcana attribution to the tree that I like:

That was from a forum long time ago, sadly don't remember where it was. Its different then what is known to be used in the Orders back then, most of them anyway, except few.  One is free to decide for themselves what makes most sense, as always.

 

Quote

I'm certainly not going to attempt to translate the Zohar as Mathers did.

That was translated a decade or so ago. One can find it here:
www.zohar.com
They have books that are also very good idea to read, to understand more of what was missing, in my humble view.

As far as the Tree go... The original religion symbol seems to be the candlestick, I think tree wasn't needed, as what it was arranged on was always there with songs and other stuff around it... Yet the actual geometric shape that is caring the Sephirot seems to be the Cube. But this is long to go into. : )

[Shaira]

Hi everyone, Sarah here, new to the forums. I'm interested in qabbalistic approaches to the tarot - did this proposal for a study group ever get off the ground? Is there a nook or cranny of these wonderful forums I should be exploring to find out more?

 

Apologies for the thread jack / noobie questions! 

 

Blessed be, 

 

Sarah x

[DanielJUK]

Sadly it didn't ever happen but please add to the esoteric section and explore the areas you want to 🙂 

It was a topic that people were quite quiet about here but recently seems to have had more attention.

In this community, it's fine to post on old threads and bring them back to life. Discussions have no age limit, unless they have been closed and you won't be able to post on them

[dancing_moon]

14 hours ago, Shaira said:

Hi everyone, Sarah here, new to the forums. I'm interested in qabbalistic approaches to the tarot - did this proposal for a study group ever get off the ground? Is there a nook or cranny of these wonderful forums I should be exploring to find out more?

 

Apologies for the thread jack / noobie questions! 

 

Blessed be, 

 

Sarah x

 

Hi Sarah,

 

Don't know if you've seen this but since the study group did never take off the ground, the OP of this thread (@Ratty) posted quite a bit of the proposed study group material in his (?) journal. The interest in Kabbalah always seems to attract exactly one and a half person - by the time someone gets interested, the OP has already moved on 😄 But just so you know - if you decide to do this, I'm in!

[Shaira]

9 hours ago, dancing_moon said:

 

Hi Sarah,

 

Don't know if you've seen this but since the study group did never take off the ground, the OP of this thread (@Ratty) posted quite a bit of the proposed study group material in his (?) journal. The interest in Kabbalah always seems to attract exactly one and a half person - by the time someone gets interested, the OP has already moved on 😄 But just so you know - if you decide to do this, I'm in!

 

Thank you, Dancing Moon! I think I'd read one of those posts, but not all of them together, I'll totally take a look. 

 

If and when I get a little further on my current hobby horse, I might try and distill my posts into a more coherent article or something similar, and maybe post that somewhere here for future reference, perhaps in a journal, perhaps elsewhere. I'm still kind of feeling my way with TT&M, working out how things are done, but it makes sense to add it somewhere I think!

 

Blessed be, 

 

Sarah

[DanielJUK]

We can offer a study area if you want to work on Kabbalah, it is an option. But it would need a commitment for people to add to it and work on it.

Our main intention is about tarot and we are are happy to offer a space to related other branches of study but there are less people interested in those topics. That's really the issue.

You are welcome to journal on it @Shaira or add articles in your own time / study journey in the esoteric section. We can always make an index for them later on 🙂 

[pacificwaters]

On 8/8/2024 at 3:03 AM, dancing_moon said:

 

Hi Sarah,

 

Don't know if you've seen this but since the study group did never take off the ground, the OP of this thread (@Ratty) posted quite a bit of the proposed study group material in his (?) journal. The interest in Kabbalah always seems to attract exactly one and a half person - by the time someone gets interested, the OP has already moved on 😄 But just so you know - if you decide to do this, I'm in!

Hilarious to read but you are so correct @dancing_moon. I would for sure be interested in learning more about Kabbalah, but can i contribute.. i doubt. I am still in the primary school wrt Kabbalah !!

[Nemia]

I've always been interested in the kabbalah, and I have found my way to work with it. The Tree came alive for me, and I can see each sephirah in my mind, like a coloured glass that tints my view of the cards. Speaking, reading and writing fluent Hebrew helps a lot, the words speak to me. I don't have the time right now to study it systematically but some years ago, took a deep dive and read some books about it. As I said, I have found my own style of interweaving tarot, astrology and kabbalah. It's three different systems that feed into each other but remain autonomous. As a tarotist, I recognize the autonomy of astrology and kabbalah and use them to understand the cards better. 

 

It's important to understand that you can't acquire the knowledge on the cognitive path alone, through reading and studying. You have to contemplate it, dare set your foot onto the Tree and climb around in it for a while. Walking meditations were especially helpful for me. 

 

The Thoth is great for this integration of astrology, kabbalah and tarot (also alchemy but it seems I'm too stupid for that). And if you want to see it applied, there is nothing better than studying, using and working with M.M. Meleen's Tabula Mundi deck and the excellent book she wrote. Her card interpretations are enlightening, both in written and painted form. 

 

Knowing Hebrew, many associations just flow through my mind. Chessed (mercy) is the sephirah associated with Jupiter. In Hebrew Jupiter is called Tzedek, Justice. So we have Justice and Mercy in one sephirah. Chessed also means excellence; if you say about a person "she's a doctor of the highest chessed", it means: she's the epitome of a doctor. A chassid is a loyal believer, and the Hebrew name for stork is chassida, the faithful one, because storks go away and come back. They're loyal to their home and partner. So all these Hebrew associations pop up in my mind and enrich my work with the kabbalah. 

 

Looking at the grammatical gender of the sephiroth names is another thing that adds depth for me, especially since all these old systems are heavily gendered. From a grammatical point of view, Chochmah, Bina, Tif'eret, Gvura and Malkuth are feminine, and Kether, Chessed, Hod, Netzach and Yesod are masculine. Like animus and anima, each sephirah carries parts of both genders. So Tif'eret is the Sun and the Son and the Knight and all kinds of glorious masculine-associated things, but the name is feminine (it's even a girl's name though rare). 

 

If people are interested, and if I have the time..., I can write a bit about these names and give some context, and if you want to dive a bit into Gematria, the magical connection between Hebrew letters and numbers, I wrote a bit about it on Cult of Tarot some years ago. If you need help with pronunciation, I recorded my horrible voice for this page made by the wonderful Joan Marie of Rabbits Moon. 

 

As you can see, my approach to all these things is idiosyncratic and eclectic 😉 I keep coming back to these topics. 

[dancing_moon]

41 minutes ago, Nemia said:

If people are interested, and if I have the time..., I can write a bit about these names and give some context

 

I'd love to see that written if/when you have the time ❤️

[DanielJUK]

If you would like to create a study group for Kabbalah, you can apply for it here -

 

Someone would need to be responsible for it but anyone can add and take part in it. I think the reason it's not happened is that it needs a commitment to it.

There is no pressure or hurry though, if people want to post Kabbalah threads in the esoteric section we can move them to a study group at a later point and anything people want to move in 🙂 

[Shaira]

11 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

If you would like to create a study group for Kabbalah, you can apply for it here -

 

Someone would need to be responsible for it but anyone can add and take part in it. I think the reason it's not happened is that it needs a commitment to it.

There is no pressure or hurry though, if people want to post Kabbalah threads in the esoteric section we can move them to a study group at a later point and anything people want to move in 🙂 

 

Thank you very much, Daniel! I'm still finding my feet here at TT&M, so I can't really say either way whether I think a study group would be the right direction. That said, my own interests range quite widely within the general "esoteric" field, so I'm as likely to bang away at some element of Golden Dawn philosophy or astrological attributions as I am a purely kabbalistic question. In which case maybe it is more appropriate to post individual questions and topics in the Esoteric subforum rather than try to divide them in a way that might end up too granular? 

 

Blessed be,

 

Sarah

 

[DanielJUK]

No worries, it is one suggestion for the future. Find your feet around the place 🙂 . Just giving you all the options.

We prefer it to have one question / discussion topic per thread and would rather have more threads started, then many topics in one thread as it starts to get confusing and becomes a nightmare to keep on topic. However we can split up threads and move posts and threads around so it's not a big deal really 🙂