Possible Greenwood reprint.....

[gregory]

So another little "cutesy" reference to make them all feel part of something SPESHUL. I doubt of people outside the UK are even aware - and quite a few people here didn't watch it.... Maybe he thinks everyone was hooked on it.

[FindYourSovereignty]

6 hours ago, Rose Lalonde said:

He acted in the British tv series Robin of Sherwood in which this was a big quote, I believe. 

 

I see. That makes sense. In the campaign comments, it feels creepy every time I read it.

[ilweran]

2 hours ago, gregory said:

So another little "cutesy" reference to make them all feel part of something SPESHUL. I doubt of people outside the UK are even aware - and quite a few people here didn't watch it.... Maybe he thinks everyone was hooked on it.

I loved it! Not had anything to do with fan stuff, but it seems to have a cult following, including in the US - the actors attend conventions over there. iirc the original Robin, Michael Praed, quit the series to make it big in the US and was briefly in Dynasty - I remember this because when I was 7 I wanted to marry him 🤣

 

The Robin of Sherwood fan group (can't think of a better term) promoted the Greenwood Tarot from what I've found in my research. I imagine there is at least a little crossover between RoS fans and people with an interest in the Greenwood, so those people would probably appreciate the reference.

 

And, of course, it's one of the (only?) things Ryan is best known for.

[FindYourSovereignty]

18 minutes ago, ilweran said:

And, of course, it's one of the (only?) things Ryan is best known for.

 

This made me laugh-out-loud. 😂

 

I clearly did not watch it or don't remember it if I did. Nothing noteworthy there as TV wasn't big in my childhood and carried over into my own child-raising days. We currently do not have a TV or Internet so I am likely in the minority on this. For those that are true fans of his, they probably don't mind it at all. 

 

🤞 that the campaign gets closed down and all those people will be disappointed, but aware that his 'acting' and talking like Chesca is doing this with him, or is in support of it, just needs to be exposed.

 

[DanielJUK]

Guys, a reminder again, can we stick to talking about the deck and the reprint campaign in this thread. We are accelerating in a direction of personal attacks and the people involved are unable to respond or have a right to reply as they are not on here. We can discuss the copyright and crowdfunder and rise above personal attacks against people outside of here.

 

[gregory]

Fair enough - though surely our opinions of a TV show aren't exactly personal attacks ? The fact that he is using it to draw in backers is - to me at least - shonky.

[katrinka]

Yes, I re-read the recent posts several times looking for personal attacks and finally just gave up. Was the criticism of a show/acting what was meant?
That seems like fair game to me. It's not like Roger Ebert ever got sued. And it's not like MR could ever be a proper, swashbuckling Robin Hood. Robin Hood should be fun to watch.
 

Edited May 28 by katrinka

[Laura Borealis]

I will say, I feel bad for the backers who have pledged in good faith, believing they're getting a legit reprint. The eBay prices for original copies are nuts, as we all know. (I was kind of looking forward to seeing if they go down after this!) If you aren't aware of the history, the Kickstarter seems like a great thing. But most people have no idea he doesn't hold copyright to the art, and are taking him at his word. There's going to be a lot of confusion and disappointment if Kickstarter actually does take it down (still very much a wait and see situation imo).

[katrinka]

5 hours ago, Laura Borealis said:

I feel bad for the backers who have pledged in good faith, believing they're getting a legit reprint.

I don't, at least not as long as they're aware of this, this, and this.
The deck can be had - according to THEIR preferences: size, borders or no, linen or smooth finish - for about half the price of that thing at Kickstarter. Plus there's that free book by Chesca - NOT Mark's drivel.

If I had an original, I'd flip it on ebay. And you couldn't give me that Kickstarter deck, even if it wasn't tainted. 

So if anyone doesn't know, be sure to spread the word.

 

ETA: And if it isn't taken down, word of the moral turpitude surrounding the KS version will eventually get around. Some people won't care, true, but the ethical people will be repulsed and unable to use the deck.

So no. There is no downside to taking it down. None.

Edited May 28 by katrinka

[gregory]

I have an original. Why would I get rid ? It's legit, Chesca got her royalties, and while the book is - not good - the cards are lovely.

[katrinka]

45 minutes ago, gregory said:

I have an original. Why would I get rid ? It's legit, Chesca got her royalties, and while the book is - not good - the cards are lovely.

True. I could just make better use of whatever crazy money it's fetching over there than I could of the deck. Especially considering that I have the Printers Studio one that I don't even have to be careful with. And it's also lovely, because the art is lovely.

YMMV, etc.

[ilweran]

18 hours ago, katrinka said:

And it's not like MR could ever be a proper, swashbuckling Robin Hood. Robin Hood should be fun to watch.

He wasn't, he was a made up character called Nasir. There were two Robins, my first crush, played by Michael Praed and the second Robin I never accepted played by Jason Connery 🤣

 

Nasir is probably why Morgan Freeman was cast as Azeem in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. Allegedly, the character was originally named Nasir, but it was changed due to copyright concerns.

 

Apparently, the original idea for the Greenwood was for it to be Robin of Sherwood based, but it would have been difficult from a copyright point of view. I've always found it notable that one of the main changes Chesca made to her Greenwood Handbook when putting the text on her website, was removing the Robin of Sherwood reference from Justice.

Edited May 29 by ilweran

[FindYourSovereignty]

 

 

I feel this is contradicting the above email from Kickstarter. Does any one know where else this was reported? The last time I read anything he was saying that 'money was being put aside' for her.

Edited June 3 by FindYourSovereignty

[ilweran]

On the Facebook page - Mark posted about it there. So the public source is him.

 

Of course we don't know what's going on behind the scenes.

 

Two days ago he posted the following in response to a question on the Facebook page - 

 

Quote

The campaign will be completed. There is no legal conflict. You will receive your deck. Mark Ryan

 

Edited May 29 by ilweran

[gregory]

On 5/29/2025 at 11:50 AM, FindYourSovereignty said:

 

 

I feel this is contradicting the above email from Kickstarter. Does any one know where else this was reported? The last time I read anything he was saying that 'money was being put aside' for her.

 

I met Caitlin Matthews IRL once or twice, several years ago now, and she specifically told me - while saying how they all missed her and were worried for her - that they were keeping all her royalties safe so that she could collect them when she reappeared.

 

He is so determined to look OK, isn't he !

 

On 5/29/2025 at 10:32 AM, ilweran said:

He wasn't, he was a made up character called Nasir. There were two Robins, my first crush, played by Michael Praed and the second Robin I never accepted played by Jason Connery 🤣

 

Nasir is probably why Morgan Freeman was cast as Azeem in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. Allegedly, the character was originally named Nasir, but it was changed due to copyright concerns.

 

Apparently, the original idea for the Greenwood was for it to be Robin of Sherwood based, but it would have been difficult from a copyright point of view. I've always found it notable that one of the main changes Chesca made to her Greenwood Handbook when putting the text on her website, was removing the Robin of Sherwood reference from Justice.

 

I cannot believe that that would have interested Chesca, to be hnest.

[ilweran]

It was the mystical element she liked I believe - Herne the Hunter as forest god protector of Britain. She mentions it somewhere I think.

 

Edit - the deleted part of her writings on Justice - This unusual representation of Justice was influenced by the moving appearance of Herne the Hunter as guardian of the justice of the land in the TV series Robin of Sherwood... Herne would appear when the forest and its human guardians were threatened, warning them to act in its defence.

 

I'm sure something is mentioned elsewhere, but I have reams of info both computer based and hardcopy!

Edited May 29 by ilweran

[Laura Borealis]

Ew. I would have hated that too! Suddenly dropping a reference to a TV show in the guidebook is really jarring. Takes you right out of the flow.

[FindYourSovereignty]

 

I am so confused by these comments. The campaign has 34 hours left and the KS email suggests it will be suspended by end of day tomorrow unless he proves he has copyright. Nothing like being right down to the wire. 

Edited June 3 by FindYourSovereignty

[geoxena]

Maybe those people are shills engaging with him so he can have some sort of record of him asserting that he has permission.

[Rose Lalonde]

9 hours ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

I am so confused by these comments. The campaign has 34 hours left and the KS email suggests it will be suspended by end of day tomorrow unless he proves he has copyright. 

Unfortunately, Kickstarter doesn't require proof of copyright. They only require the campaign creator to submit a Counter Notification saying the DMCA wasn't valid, which puts the onus back on the person who submitted the DMCA to go to court. -- Of course, if someone submits a false Counter Notification, that would be perjury on top of the copyright infringement.

 

"Kickstarter processes Take Down Notices and counter-notifications that it receives for adherence to legal formalities only; we cannot and will not adjudicate the validity of any claim of copyright infringement or if a defense like fair use may apply."

 

"After Kickstarter receives your counter notification, we'll forward it to the person that submitted the Take Down Notice. If we do not receive a notice within 10 business days after forwarding the counter notification that the owner has filed an action seeking a court order to prevent alleged infringement, Kickstarter may reinstate the project at issue in its sole discretion."

 

Edited May 30 by Rose Lalonde

[gregory]

Ugh. He is going to get away with it. Until we see PROOF that Chesca has said OK - even proof that she is actually still with us and he hasn't made it all up after finding out otherwise and assuming that will make it OK for him to lie through his teeth....

 

£93k. He is going to be laughing all the way to the bank.

[FindYourSovereignty]

8 hours ago, Rose Lalonde said:

Unfortunately, Kickstarter doesn't require proof of copyright. They only require the campaign creator to submit a Counter Notification saying the DMCA wasn't valid, which puts the onus back on the person who submitted the DMCA to go to court. Don't know about the timing below (from here), given the end date of this campaign. -- Of course, if someone submits a false Counter Notification, that would be perjury on top of the copyright infringement, but it would be a court matter.

 

"Kickstarter processes Take Down Notices and counter-notifications that it receives for adherence to legal formalities only; we cannot and will not adjudicate the validity of any claim of copyright infringement or if a defense like fair use may apply."

 

"After Kickstarter receives your counter notification, we'll forward it to the person that submitted the Take Down Notice. If we do not receive a notice within 10 business days after forwarding the counter notification that the owner has filed an action seeking a court order to prevent alleged infringement, Kickstarter may reinstate the project at issue in its sole discretion."

 

 

Thank you for these details. I don't expect KS to get legally involved, but I do feel if there is any possible copyright issue that they would refuse the campaign until there is proof provided. Everything seemed to happen way to close to the end of the campaign and if any court proceeding progresses, all that money people paid will have already been collected. In this situation, I believe KS had thecopportunity to prevent that from happening. There are already over 1000 backers involved. And of course, if there are no court proceedings, than there will be a lot of new Greenwood decks out there. I wish someone would ask where she has given her permission. Like if she is so happy about it, why hasn't she said so herself. <sigh>

 

[gregory]

They don't collect the money till the end of the campaign. They need at least to pause it till this is sorted.

[FindYourSovereignty]

1 hour ago, gregory said:

They don't collect the money till the end of the campaign. They need at least to pause it till this is sorted.

 

The campaign ends at 7:00 AM EDT tomorrow, May 31. They better do it fast.

[DanielJUK]

Also having to be legally conscious on here, would you as a crowdfunding site want to allow a project which might end up with a legal battle later on and affect your reputation? Most sites and businesses go the way of legal avoidance by not getting involved and avoiding situations and battles. If they allow it to complete, it could get extremely messy later on. I am pretty sure most publishers have stayed away from Greenwood over the years because it has legal issues. It's more complicated when multiple people created a deck but surely, you would get absolute permission from all associated people before allowing it to happen. Crowdfunding sites sell themselves as a safe way to create creative projects but protects copyright and ownership, the artists always safely keep their ownership as part of the process. I know KS and Indiegogo are always ending projects using Disney, Nintendo and other brands.

 

The project still being there seems to contradict the email reply @FindYourSovereignty and other members got, but we are really going to just have to see what happens.