Tarot "truths" reconsidered

[Aldor44]

Hey all!

 

So. when learning tarot a few years back from my original teacher- she introduced a few rules which at the time I saw as unbreakable.. now I am not so sure..

 

Would love your input on this:

 

1) When ever you put the deck away make sure the first and last cards are positive to ensure the overall energy the deck emits is positive..

 

2) When using clarifying cards to get further insights you must NEVER use classifiers on the High priestess and Hermit cards

 

Funny story about rule 2: Once i did draw a clarifier on the high priestess by mistake and got the Hermit...  ::)

 

So.. what are your thoughts of these two "laws".. do they hold any water?

[ilweran]

Never heard of either of them so I'd have to say no!

 

I used to cleanse second hand decks with incense, wrap my decks in silk and so on, but I gave up on that a long time ago!

[RavenOfSummer]

I've never heard of either of these! So given that, I obviously haven't been following them  :)) I honestly don't see anything in tarot practice as something that should be held as a "rule", except for of course ethical considerations when giving readings. Other than that, I think it's all whatever rituals and habits we find we connect with for our own practice.

 

For the specific ideas you mention...

 

#1, I could see it as a practice, although personally I'm not bothered by the order of my cards when I put them away. The other thing I would say is, I personally think all cards can have both positive and negative aspects, depending on the context. Although that said, I don't think there's any doubt most people would rather see The Sun than the 10 of Swords in most cases  X-D

 

#2, I actually don't like the practice of using clarifiers in general. In my view they are VERY rarely helpful and in fact tend to muddy the picture more than clarify it. In my experience, I think it's best to work with the cards you drew, read what you see, without pulling clarifiers. Even if they don't make sense right away, mull it over, go do something else for a while, get your mind off it, come back to it, and the majority of times the meaning of the card will strike you. A lot of times I get the sense that people pull clarifiers either because a) they're too impatient to really sit with the cards(s) they've drawn or b) they don't like the answer being suggested by the card(s) in front of them.

 

Of course, even though I see clarifiers as problematic, I don't even hold "no clarifiers" as a rule in my own readings! I have drawn them a few times, just very rarely.

 

So in short, no rules here  ^-^ I like reading about what does and doesn't work for other people though. Not sure if I've really answered you're question...I've kind of veered off on some tangents here I think!

[Cookie]

Hey all!

 

So. when learning tarot a few years back from my original teacher- she introduced a few rules which at the time I saw as unbreakable.. now I am not so sure..

 

Would love your input on this:

 

1) When ever you put the deck away make sure the first and last cards are positive to ensure the overall energy the deck emits is positive..

 

2) When using clarifying cards to get further insights you must NEVER use classifiers on the High priestess and Hermit cards

 

Funny story about rule 2: Once i did draw a clarifier on the high priestess by mistake and got the Hermit...  ::)

 

So.. what are your thoughts of these two "laws".. do they hold any water?

 

Hi Aldor 44,

 

yes funnily enough when i put my cards i always check the bottom; for if i see the 9/10/swords , tower, 5/swords, etc, it always makes my day ahead seem insurmountable esp if it's busy, or i think about the bad side of the day.  the "dark" cards bring me down in other words.

 

And the hermit & H.P sounds like late Victorian/Edwardian superstition.  Do you know why this shouldn't be done? 

[Annabelle]

I haven't heard of these rules before, but here's my take on them:

 

1) I don't believe that the cards contain "energy" of their own. When I put a deck away, I don't care which cards are on the top or bottom.

 

2) I don't like the practice of pulling clarifiers at all, regardless of the cards. To me, clarifiers result in sloppy readings.

[Wanderer]

It's amazing how many 'rules' and rituals people have that work for them... but that does sound like a teacher trying to make their student follow exactly in their footsteps. Which doesn't work, of course, because people are different.

 

1. To me this seems like superstition, and I don't believe that the cards have any power over their surroundings. I also don't want to know which cards are at the top or bottom; once I've done a reading, they go back in their box, shuffled and face-down. Let them preserve their secrets when not in use.

 

2. I use clarifiers very occasionally, in cases where there are two possible ways to interpret the existing reading, and the whole focus is therefore ambiguous. So far, I've found it very effective as a way of separating two options... but very rarely do I find it's needed. I wouldn't be clarifying a particular card (rather, the whole spread), so the rule doesn't actually make sense to me.

[HOLMES]

when I opened up this thread.. I thought I was going to see some general tarot truths like

reversals vs uprightals..

postions vs flowing..

 

I was surpised to see these truths are taught to  you by your former teacher..

I know there is a lady who takes out all the swords and the devil and death card when she reads her tarot..

to me that isnt' a true tarot reading as it doesnt' follow the tarot system.

 

so I would say forget the tarot teachings as a rule given to you by your teacher.. (especially if she didnt' give you good reason for it ).

 

myself i have evolved my own general rules but i always say this is what makes sense t me.

[Raggydoll]

I know there is a lady who takes out all the swords and the devil and death card when she reads her tarot..

 

How interesting! I'm gonna be honest, my immediate thought was that this person must have some confusion as to the basics of tarot and some misconceptions about archetypes and how their span is well above and beyond 'good' and 'bad'.. but then I realized that I myself was making presumptions and actually judging this person based on very little information. So I gave myself a mental slap and decided to adopt a more open mindset. So now its just a fascinating story and I would have loved to hear her own explanation to all this. I'm sure she has some real reasons, and if she feels that this actually works for her (and its not just out of fear), then who am I to say that she should change?!  :)

 

I too single out certain cards from time to time, to work more closely with them. I do not, however, use an incomplete deck for readings (unless its a majors-only thing). But it is true that when I choose to work on a certain archetype I make a conscious decision as to what feels comfortable, exciting or fun to me - so in a way I am letting my ego jump in and play. I mean, I could instead have decided to go through the entire deck and work with each card to make sure that I don't shy away or miss out on any potentially useful energies and archetypes. That would have been a much more open and balanced (but way more time consuming) way to approach this. But yeah, I definitely like it when I can decide for myself what I want (and what I think I could benefit) from working more with.

[Raggydoll]

And, to actually answer your question, Aldor44[/member] . No, I have never heard of these 'truths' so they certainly don't hold any water with me (if that's the expression?!). 

 

But in case anyone missed it, I LOVE to think and work outside of the tarot-box, and I thrive on challenging preconceived notions (especially my own). So I don't care if someone tells me that I can't use my cards in a certain way because 'that is not how tarot works'. I believe that tarot works in different ways for different people, and that most of your perceived limitations are just that - your own limitations. If you decide that tarot can work in a more expansive way for you, then I am pretty sure it will. That has been my experience anyway. So I don't only use tarot for readings of all sort, I also use it as a tool for magick and rituals among many other things. And I think that the more unique and creative you get with a tool - the more it comes alive and will expand before your eyes. So, to sum things up. If something is true to you, than that is the truth for you. If you know that your cards can do something that other people say is impossible - then stop listening to other people. They will just try to put you back in that box again! And if you have a ritual that other people feel is silly or perhaps even superstitious -  decide for yourself what it means to you. Just because something is right and true for you at this point in time doesn't mean that it must hold true forever. You are entitled to change, but you are also entitled to hold seemingly contradictory beliefs and opinions. Its a part of being a complex wonderful creature of this universe. Everyone has these contradictory sides to them by the way - but not everyone can see them as readily. And if you are one of those people who can see all the different shades of yourself, then that is a blessing. Because that means you can also embrace every side of you, as being a perfect reflection of the big picture (or the divine, as some would call it).

[ToadieOdie]

Before coming to this forum, I had never heard of the use of clarifier cards. Even now it's not something I think to do during a reading. I feel like I should be taking the time to understand what's present in the spread because it's there for a reason.

[Cookie]

And, to actually answer your question, Aldor44[/member] . No, I have never heard of these 'truths' so they certainly don't hold any water with me (if that's the expression?!). 

 

But in case anyone missed it, I LOVE to think and work outside of the tarot-box, and I thrive on challenging preconceived notions (especially my own). So I don't care if someone tells me that I can't use my cards in a certain way because 'that is not how tarot works'. I believe that tarot works in different ways for different people, and that most of your perceived limitations are just that - your own limitations. If you decide that tarot can work in a more expansive way for you, then I am pretty sure it will. That has been my experience anyway. So I don't only use tarot for readings of all sort, I also use it as a tool for magick and rituals among many other things. And I think that the more unique and creative you get with a tool - the more it comes alive and will expand before your eyes. So, to sum things up. If something is true to you, than that is the truth for you. If you know that your cards can do something that other people say is impossible - then stop listening to other people. They will just try to put you back in that box again! And if you have a ritual that other people feel is silly or perhaps even superstitious -  decide for yourself what it means to you. Just because something is right and true for you at this point in time doesn't mean that it must hold true forever. You are entitled to change, but you are also entitled to hold seemingly contradictory beliefs and opinions. Its a part of being a complex wonderful creature of this universe. Everyone has these contradictory sides to them by the way - but not everyone can see them as readily. And if you are one of those people who can see all the different shades of yourself, then that is a blessing. Because that means you can also embrace every side of you, as being a perfect reflection of the big picture (or the divine, as some would call it).

 

Yes, i very much agree: it's all about being "peculiar" to oneself with tarot, or anything occultist for that matter.  And the more left-field we think, the better.

[Cookie]

Before coming to this forum, I had never heard of the use of clarifier cards. Even now it's not something I think to do during a reading. I feel like I should be taking the time to understand what's present in the spread because it's there for a reason.

 

Yes, i agree, i find that something we do to make it easier for ourselves often makes it harder & complicates issues.  It's like our subconscious teaching us a lesson for not trying to work it out for ourselves. 

[Raggydoll]

Before coming to this forum, I had never heard of the use of clarifier cards. Even now it's not something I think to do during a reading. I feel like I should be taking the time to understand what's present in the spread because it's there for a reason.

 

Yes, i agree, i find that something we do to make it easier for ourselves often makes it harder & complicates issues.  It's like our subconscious teaching us a lesson for not trying to work it out for ourselves.

 

Yes. I basically never use clarifiers as I think they can effectively stand in the way if you want to form a relationship with every card. It can become an easy way out - a bit like saying "please deal me a new card because the other one was too hard for me". But in some ways it is also like saying "Please repeat what you just said (or expand on it), but you must use completely different words this time". I can imagine just how hard and frustrating it would be if someone asked that of me, and imagine if they kept doing it over and over  :)) (yes, I personally believe that there is more to my decks than just being inanimate tools. My decks have personalities and real tangible energies, and I do believe that I interact with the archetypes in my decks. But I also respect and understand that not every reader shares this opinion or experience). 

[Wanderer]

I agree, Raggydoll[/member] - including that my deck has a personality (and a sense of humour!). Because of that, I think it's also willing to help me learn, even if I very occasionally need an extra pointer in the right direction. However, I do agree that a clarifier should represent a slightly different and vaguely intelligent question, and not be a replacement for a single card. Rather, I think of it as extending the conversation slightly. It's more, "Ah, so does that imply x, or y?" rather than, "Wut?"  ;)

 

It's the same principle as this forum: people are very willing to help if one makes an attempt at the answer first, but just saying "I don't understand - you do it for me!" doesn't get much of a response. Except from the moderators.

[Raggydoll]

I agree, Raggydoll[/member] - including that my deck has a personality (and a sense of humour!). Because of that, I think it's also willing to help me learn, even if I very occasionally need an extra pointer in the right direction. However, I do agree that a clarifier should represent a slightly different and vaguely intelligent question, and not be a replacement for a single card. Rather, I think of it as extending the conversation slightly. It's more, "Ah, so does that imply x, or y?" rather than, "Wut?"  ;)

 

It's the same principle as this forum: people are very willing to help if one makes an attempt at the answer first, but just saying "I don't understand - you do it for me!" doesn't get much of a response. Except from the moderators.

 

X-D Totally get what you are saying!

[Aldor44]

Thank you ALL for your amazing replies!

 

I have to admit i kinda like the top/bottom card being "positive" but the other rule I haven't followed in a while since I too stopped using clarifying cards

 

 

[DanielJUK]

There are a lot of tarot myths out there, I remember on AT Tarotbear had a whole thread of all the tales and warnings and superstition! People often get told something about tarot and then pass it on and it seems to be handed down! My view is that I ignore anything which challenges my love and usage of tarot, I don't want warnings and superstition and rules, I want to use it and enjoy it in my own way! My fave that someone told me though is that you shouldn't have a tarot reading more than once a year or bad things will happen or it won't come true, not good for self-improvement work or pro readers who want regular repeating clients  X-D

 

2) When using clarifying cards to get further insights you must NEVER use classifiers on the High priestess and Hermit cards

 

There is a tarot truth that has been going around for a long time about the High Priestess, the concept is that she is a blocking card. If you pull her in a position,  "it's not for you to know" at that time. Whilst she is a card that don't give away much the message really is to trust your intuition on it so I think as a "no message here" card, it's too simplistic with the tarot. She has a place and a message in a reading. I guess the Hermit is similar in a "look within for the answer" way. I would pick a clarifier for any card I needed to but a lot of people (especially starting out) use clarifiers wrongly, they pull one when they don't understand the card and then take the message of the second card, but in the end makes everything more muddled. I really recommend not or rarely using them but they are to give clarity on the original card, not just give you a new message. That is far more important than the "truth" about those two cards  :))

[Aldor44]

There are a lot of tarot myths out there, I remember on AT Tarotbear had a whole thread of all the tales and warnings and superstition! People often get told something about tarot and then pass it on and it seems to be handed down! My view is that I ignore anything which challenges my love and usage of tarot, I don't want warnings and superstition and rules, I want to use it and enjoy it in my own way! My fave that someone told me though is that you shouldn't have a tarot reading more than once a year or bad things will happen or it won't come true, not good for self-improvement work or pro readers who want regular repeating clients  X-D

 

2) When using clarifying cards to get further insights you must NEVER use classifiers on the High priestess and Hermit cards

 

There is a tarot truth that has been going around for a long time about the High Priestess, the concept is that she is a blocking card. If you pull her in a position,  "it's not for you to know" at that time. Whilst she is a card that don't give away much the message really is to trust your intuition on it so I think as a "no message here" card, it's too simplistic with the tarot. She has a place and a message in a reading. I guess the Hermit is similar in a "look within for the answer" way. I would pick a clarifier for any card I needed to but a lot of people (especially starting out) use clarifiers wrongly, they pull one when they don't understand the card and then take the message of the second card, but in the end makes everything more muddled. I really recommend not or rarely using them but they are to give clarity on the original card, not just give you a new message. That is far more important than the "truth" about those two cards  :))

 

yes! this was her reasoning exactly regarding the HP and Hermit

[Saturn Celeste]

Good thread!  I have my own rule (ritual) about putting my cards away.  I always flip reversals upright after every reading.  I don't like to store my decks with reversals reversed.  :o  I flip cards at the time I shuffle and every reversal is for that reading.  I feel by keeping them reversed and just using them that way taints the following reading when I use that particular deck.  So all my decks have upright cards in them.  I don't care what cards are top or bottom.  I don't use clairifiers hardly at all.  If I need more information I pull an oracle card.

[Grizabella]

The magic is in the reader, not the cards. What the reader believes about his or her deck, that becomes their truth about thiercards, though, so actually I think everyone is right.  ;D 

 

I don't think there are any "musts" and "do's" and "don'ts" but there are things that are more helpful than others in the use of the cards.

 

As for clarifiers, I'm with those who say they just muddy the waters. However, I do use extra cards for "more information" in the spread I usually use to read for others. They're not to clarify something I don't understand, though. They're cards to delve deeper into one of the areas of the spread that the sitter has more questions about. I should probably name it the Scrabble Seven Spread because it can end up looking like a Scrabble board with all the branches out here and there, depending on how the reading transpires.

 

 

[Petalene]

I usually shuffle my deck a few times before I put it away, mainly so the cards I used for the reading are intragrated back into the deck. I’m not fussed if I don’t have time, don’t feel like it, forget or whatever.

 

When I draw a clarifier, I always ask a specific question and I put some thought into what I ask and how I phrase it. Throwing down more cards randomly - unhelpful for me. “What can help me achieve this outcome?” or “What will help me find peace and/or understanding with this card in this location in the reading?” The more specific, the better. I find this helpful because it gives me a framing for interperting the card.

 

Since I like using oracle decks and tarot together, I’ll sometimes ask an oracle deck the clarifiing question to get a different perspective on the reading.

 

 

 

[Jewel]

Aldor, to your original question I have never heard of those rules, but if you like them keep them.  If you don't then let them go.

 

I personally believe that there is more to my decks than just being inanimate tools. My decks have personalities and real tangible energies, and I do believe that I interact with the archetypes in my decks. But I also respect and understand that not every reader shares this opinion or experience).

Same here, and that is why I enjoy working with different decks because they each speak in their own voice and with their own personality.  But I know that is not true for all, and like everything Tarot to each their own  :).

[Cobweb]

Yes, I guess that if you see the decks as inanimate, you're likely to treat them differently.  I'm definitely on the "my decks have personality" end of the spectrum.  I hadn't come across the positive cards at the start and end of the deck idea (and I don't necessarily see cards as either positive or negative anyway) but I won't put them away unshuffled.  I always shuffle them to get rid of the energy from the  last reading.

 

(Not all my decks like to be stored next to each other either....  :)) )

[Grizabella]

I don't know if any of you were taught, as I was, that "all matter has  energy" in school. Everything does have its own energy. The solid stuff like rocks and furniture and whatever are just atoms moving so slowly they have a solid form. So really, the deck does (or is) slowly moving matter. So are our bodies. So if you consider that, then maybe there's something to the idea that a deck has energy, but it only has the kind of energy that makes a cardstock a card, not in the sense that it's got energy of the type that we'd call "spirit" that can leak out.

 

As for clarifiers, I share the opinion that they just muddy the waters more. However, I do draw cards for more information, which isn't the same thing. With a clarifier, the clarifying cards are supposedly saying the same thing only differently but I don't believe that.

 

In the spread I use most that I made myself, I draw an extra card or two in places that there's some question about. For instance, if I do my spread and I'm doing a past, present, future with it, if the sitter has questions about a card in one of the positions I'll draw a further card or two to bring more information about that particular issue.

 

On the old AT forum somewhere is a thread about Tarot myths and if someone can find it, it would be neat to post in the thread here where AT information is kept.

 

I'm not superstitious about the cards at all. But sometimes I do things that mean something to me with my deck. A good example is my Everyday Enchantment deck. I went on a road trip with my cousin and his wife in September and my son had given me some money to spend on the trip. In one shop we went to, there were yarns. I splurged on some pretty yarn that was two or three times the price of your average yarn. I was saving it for something special, and Everyday Enchantment is so dear to me that I crocheted a combination spread cloth/ deck case with the yarn. I didn't do it because of a superstitious belief about the deck, but just because I've expressed my feeling that this deck is very, very special to me and makes me feel good when I look at the card case.

 

Back to that issue of cards having energy for a bit. If you consider the atomic energy everything is made up of, and then give it deeper thought, the energy of everything is all mingled. When decks are handled by you or your sitters, the DNA "rubs off" onto the deck. I don't believe that means that evil energy resides in a deck from a sitter or someone handling the deck. But the longer I own and use a deck, the more DNA/energy is left in the deck. It isn't good or bad energy, it just is /b] if that makes sense.

 

 

 

[Saturn Celeste]

On the old AT forum somewhere is a thread about Tarot myths and if someone can find it, it would be neat to post in the thread here where AT information is kept.

Is this the one dear Griz? ;)

https://www.thetarotforum.com/esoteric/list-of-tarot-myths/