RavenOfSummer Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 Although I wasn't working with tarot at the time, I had a lot of Tower experience before age 18, and I think if I HAD been working with cards and connecting with those meanings and energies coming up, it would have made me feel...understood, perhaps, or less alone. I like what libra said about permission to know and express that everything is not ok. The pressure to pretend everything is all right can have such a detrimental impact. Oh RavenOfSummer, this is why I love you so much! And if someone had told me that I probably didn't understand and was not being true to myself I would have felt insulted, offended, and patronized. More than fifty years later, with enough life experience for two or three unfortunate people under my belt, I think I would have been right to feel that way. No one but my therapist, someone who is reading for me, or my husband (if I still had one) should presume to be in my head like that. However, as Raggedydoll observed, there are limitations to how we convey the emotional content of what we say in our posts, so I will take it on faith that no harm was meant. It is indeed a fascinating topic, even though it might not be the one Cookie intended. I'm still not sure about that... <3 <3 <3 yes, thank you all for your input .. there's been some very interesting points, and some diplomatic ones too. I didn't explain myself well enough, it's hard when i can't show examples from the sites i'm talking about. And please don't think I'm in anyway thinking that i'm better than these tarot people. Even though i think there's a huge difference between 18 & 21 year old, a lot of the younger participants are far better than I am and the other people in their early 20's. Grandma[/member] , yes, it's very easy for people to look back and say they've had Tower etc experiences from the fine-tuned lens of an adult, but having not so long ago been an 18 year old and being around so many teenagers, the time is one of huge confusion & change esp if your childhoods been hard. As ravenofsummer is saying she can look back and say it was a Tower experience but if you would have told her that at 18 years of age she wouldn't have known what you're talking about. Understanding of things like permission to hurt and of forgiving yourself etc, are totally alien concepts at this tender age (i hardly know what people are talking about and i'm not stupid, i don't think anyway). Maybe i shouldn't of usednot being true to yourself, perhaps i should have said lost sight of what it's like to be a teenager. And i'm not calling anyone old. Anyway, thanks all for the input. Thanks for these additional points, Cookie. I haven't lost sight of what it's like to be a teenager- in fact I'm very much the same person now that I was then. When I said I could look back and see the Tower experiences in my life, I only meant that I wasn't working with and studying the cards at that time. So I couldn't see it at the time not because I couldn't make the connection, but because I did not have tarot in my life. Part of what I was trying to say is that I wish I had had tarot in my life at that time, because it could have helped to anchor me through what I was going through. I love to hear about people who are working with tarot at that time of life. It can be such a powerful tool for empowerment <3 I think everyone has brought up interesting points, and while I definitely can see how different backgrounds and levels of experience/maturity will affect a persons understanding of certain cards, I personally still think that ‘wisdom’ is very much present in every stage of life - it just takes on different forms (I am not saying that you claimed the opposite or anything like that Cookie, I’m just speaking generally while contemplating this intriguing topic). Very much agree with this. Young people are wiser than older people give them credit for. I think most of the time it's confused older people that confuse them, rather than them confusing themselves. Maybe this is a stretch, but you could also kind of see it as breaking free of the constraints that your religion or society places on you. Not in a bad or evil way, just in terms of being yourself, rather than how others say you should be. (for example, some people think that Tarot is "of the Devil" - but we know better, and practice it anyway). In a past reading I had this card and its meaning was exactly what you describe : breaking free from "traditional" expectation, from the norm, finally embracing what I think and what I want to do, even if it's not what others expected of me. I also agree with Daniel about the sexual aspect of this card. It can be a great and animal attraction and great sex ;) I come back to this comment about the Devil. I've just remembered someone said to me once that Satan is not evil, he's just a fallen angel who has been rejected by God for daring thinking by himself. I like this interpretation and it meets what you say Night Shade. I can understand why a person may love this card seeing it that way. Really like this, Esk. Thanks for sharing this interpretation.
Grandma Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 And please don't think I'm in anyway thinking that i'm better than these tarot people. Even though i think there's a huge difference between 18 & 21 year old, a lot of the younger participants are far better than I am and the other people in their early 20's. Perhaps there was a huge difference between the ages of 18 and 21 for you and for people you know, but that is not true for everyone. It wasn't true for me and for a lot of people I know. One advantage of living longer is that one's frame of reference expands. Grandma[/member] , yes, it's very easy for people to look back and say they've had Tower etc experiences from the fine-tuned lens of an adult, but having not so long ago been an 18 year old and being around so many teenagers, the time is one of huge confusion & change esp if your childhoods been hard. I remember my adolescence with exquisite accuracy. Being closer to it does not give you an advantage. I know the difference between the huge confusion and change of the teenage years and Tower experiences now and I knew it then. I was painfully aware from much earlier than adolescence that my life was different than the lives of most of the children around me in ways that were too painful to describe. Maybe the reason you haven't experienced this difference is that it hasn't happened to you, but it happened to me and please don't suggest that I only think this in retrospect. As ravenofsummer is saying she can look back and say it was a Tower experience but if you would have told her that at 18 years of age she wouldn't have known what you're talking about. Understanding of things like permission to hurt and of forgiving yourself etc, are totally alien concepts at this tender age (i hardly know what people are talking about and i'm not stupid, i don't think anyway). Maybe i shouldn't of usednot being true to yourself, perhaps i should have said lost sight of what it's like to be a teenager. And i'm not calling anyone old. I would not presume to speak to what RavenOfSummer would or would not have known at 18 and neither should you. And I'm truly happy for you that you don't understand things like permission to hurt and forgiving yourself. I did. My life taught me in no uncertain terms. And it's okay to call me old. Being old is a chronological fact, not a failing, weakness or insult. Maybe when you are old you will understand that. Anyway, thanks all for the input.
Cookie Posted October 23, 2018 Author Posted October 23, 2018 And please don't think I'm in anyway thinking that i'm better than these tarot people. Even though i think there's a huge difference between 18 & 21 year old, a lot of the younger participants are far better than I am and the other people in their early 20's. Perhaps there was a huge difference between the ages of 18 and 21 for you and for people you know, but that is not true for everyone. It wasn't true for me and for a lot of people I know. One advantage of living longer is that one's frame of reference expands. Grandma[/member] , yes, it's very easy for people to look back and say they've had Tower etc experiences from the fine-tuned lens of an adult, but having not so long ago been an 18 year old and being around so many teenagers, the time is one of huge confusion & change esp if your childhoods been hard. I remember my adolescence with exquisite accuracy. Being closer to it does not give you an advantage. I know the difference between the huge confusion and change of the teenage years and Tower experiences now and I knew it then. I was painfully aware from much earlier than adolescence that my life was different than the lives of most of the children around me in ways that were too painful to describe. Maybe the reason you haven't experienced this difference is that it hasn't happened to you, but it happened to me and please don't suggest that I only think this in retrospect. As ravenofsummer is saying she can look back and say it was a Tower experience but if you would have told her that at 18 years of age she wouldn't have known what you're talking about. Understanding of things like permission to hurt and of forgiving yourself etc, are totally alien concepts at this tender age (i hardly know what people are talking about and i'm not stupid, i don't think anyway). Maybe i shouldn't of usednot being true to yourself, perhaps i should have said lost sight of what it's like to be a teenager. And i'm not calling anyone old. I would not presume to speak to what RavenOfSummer would or would not have known at 18 and neither should you. And I'm truly happy for you that you don't understand things like permission to hurt and forgiving yourself. I did. My life taught me in no uncertain terms. And it's okay to call me old. Being old is a chronological fact, not a failing, weakness or insult. Maybe when you are old you will understand that. Anyway, thanks all for the input. A lot of people have had a rough life, deary ... but not everyone bangs on about it as much as you. Moderator edit: This kind of condescending talk is not acceptable Cookie[/member]
RavenOfSummer Posted October 23, 2018 Posted October 23, 2018 And please don't think I'm in anyway thinking that i'm better than these tarot people. Even though i think there's a huge difference between 18 & 21 year old, a lot of the younger participants are far better than I am and the other people in their early 20's. Perhaps there was a huge difference between the ages of 18 and 21 for you and for people you know, but that is not true for everyone. It wasn't true for me and for a lot of people I know. One advantage of living longer is that one's frame of reference expands. Grandma[/member] , yes, it's very easy for people to look back and say they've had Tower etc experiences from the fine-tuned lens of an adult, but having not so long ago been an 18 year old and being around so many teenagers, the time is one of huge confusion & change esp if your childhoods been hard. I remember my adolescence with exquisite accuracy. Being closer to it does not give you an advantage. I know the difference between the huge confusion and change of the teenage years and Tower experiences now and I knew it then. I was painfully aware from much earlier than adolescence that my life was different than the lives of most of the children around me in ways that were too painful to describe. Maybe the reason you haven't experienced this difference is that it hasn't happened to you, but it happened to me and please don't suggest that I only think this in retrospect. As ravenofsummer is saying she can look back and say it was a Tower experience but if you would have told her that at 18 years of age she wouldn't have known what you're talking about. Understanding of things like permission to hurt and of forgiving yourself etc, are totally alien concepts at this tender age (i hardly know what people are talking about and i'm not stupid, i don't think anyway). Maybe i shouldn't of usednot being true to yourself, perhaps i should have said lost sight of what it's like to be a teenager. And i'm not calling anyone old. I would not presume to speak to what RavenOfSummer would or would not have known at 18 and neither should you. And I'm truly happy for you that you don't understand things like permission to hurt and forgiving yourself. I did. My life taught me in no uncertain terms. And it's okay to call me old. Being old is a chronological fact, not a failing, weakness or insult. Maybe when you are old you will understand that. Anyway, thanks all for the input. A lot of people have had a rough life, deary ... but not everyone bangs on about it as much as you. Grandma was merely pointing out the differences in experiences people have, and the need to be mindful of our own biases and to avoid judging others. Your response is not only uncalled for, it is incredibly rude, insensitive, and lacking in the spirit of good will that forum discussion should be made in.
Raggydoll Posted October 24, 2018 Posted October 24, 2018 This topic has been locked as it has derailed into unacceptable rudeness.
Saturn Celeste Posted October 24, 2018 Posted October 24, 2018 And yet another thread has been locked because of disrespect. This is unacceptable for this forum. TT&M is a forum about love and respect. Respect is the one rule that MUST be followed or the staff will come in and mediate. Life sucks for many of us, the real world sucks for many of us but this forum is a haven from the crap we ALL have in our lives. We come here for fellowship, knowledge and safety. This is a safe corner from all the crap around us and I won't stand for disrespect and crap brought into this forum. Please think before you type!
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