Is the High Priestess a sham?

[Barleywine]

I never expect anything out of the HP except a riddle. Maybe we should replace her with a "Sphinx" card.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Barleywine

[Oxfret]

7 hours ago, katrinka said:

This was accidental and I can't delete it on my phone so now it's part of the conversation.

~this is not a quote from karinka

 

 

@katrinka I meant to refer to the HP specifically as a reflection, maybe more so than the rest since her benefit comes largely from intuition and the reflection of that intuition is always going to be your own connectedness in verious aspects. The other cards always strive for you to be something more but the HP sits waiting between what we already know and the mortal turmoil we are struggling through.

 

... Can't say I am up to date on the Queen's power so I'll take your word for it. You've made me legit 😂 a few times now, so I like you already to 😛

 

.. and I dated a writer long distance for some years, I'm always happy to iron out word definitions to other people's exhaustion haha.

 

[katrinka]

48 minutes ago, Oxfret said:

I meant to refer to the HP specifically as a reflection, maybe more so than the rest since her benefit comes largely from intuition and the reflection of that intuition is always going to be your own connectedness in verious aspects. The other cards always strive for you to be something more but the HP sits waiting between what we already know and the mortal turmoil we are struggling through.

She's low in the series. You go through this and that, pass through Death and the Devil, and eventually hit the celestial cards and finally the World.
That doesn't make her less, but it makes her kind of basic - not in a bad way, but primal.

48 minutes ago, Oxfret said:

... Can't say I am up to date on the Queen's power so I'll take your word for it. You've made me legit 😂 a few times now, so I like you already to 😛

 

.. and I dated a writer long distance for some years, I'm always happy to iron out word definitions to other people's exhaustion haha.

 

*fistbump* 😁

[Oxfret]

@katrinka base in a primal way, I like that. Not sure how it fits into my image of the HP yet, but I certainly relate to it on a personal level. I don't think I could ever see one card as "less than" any other. They all support each other and I'm excited to see how complex it gets as I learn more!

[katrinka]

25 minutes ago, Oxfret said:

@katrinka base in a primal way, I like that. Not sure how it fits into my image of the HP yet, but I certainly relate to it on a personal level. I don't think I could ever see one card as "less than" any other. They all support each other and I'm excited to see how complex it gets as I learn more!

She's subconscious. So primal in that sense.
Hope that helps!

[gregory]

10 hours ago, katrinka said:

She's subconscious. So primal in that sense.
Hope that helps!

Nicely put.

[Guest]

High Priestess is 2. 
Many assign this card to things unseen/unknown.

This card to me means a psychic woman/man. And has come up as “she/he knows” countless of times - but it can mean things that are unseen/unknown, it really all comes down to your question.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Guest

[Grizabella]

On 12/8/2018 at 2:14 AM, Wanderer said:

Thanks for the replies, Grizabella[/member]  and PageOfCups[/member] - that was much the reaction I was expecting!  😉 However, it's not quite got to the heart of it...

 

I'm not talking about the Miss Cleo scenario here; she's not a complete fraud, by any means, but how much of her aura is bestowed on her by humanity's need to have such a figure? Can a High Priestess be as much a figurehead or an image, as a real embodiment of the virtues associated with her?

 

Also, does it vary for different decks and different people (practically everything else does to some extent, after all)? In decks without reversals (like the Wildwood), the reversed meaning must be contained within the card, no? And therefore, the HP must in those cases include an element of the illusory; part of her must be about appearances rather than reality. This is why I was asking - not to see whether everyone agreed (obviously, not everyone would), but to see whether anyone has had this impression or understanding of her appear before.

 

It's interesting, Grizzabella, that you have the charlatan aspect being included in the Magician - that's something I'd always felt with the RW as well, but it's not at all my feeling with the Wildwood, where the Shaman seems to be the real thing. So it may be something very specific to this deck...

It does depend sometimes on what the creator of a deck and the art work intend. The Wildwood's Shaman is not intended to have the RWS meaning, I don't think. I don't use that particular deck, although I do have it. When I read with any deck, I don't always read with any particular creator's meaning in mind.

[Iiwi]

"You see, a secret is not something untold. It’s something which can’t be told." That's a quote from Terrance McKenna. We can interpret the High Priestess in mundane ways, but She's so much BIGGER than that...

[6xscorpio]

The timing of my finding this forum and having this post revived so it was up front is uncanny. i do a three card daily pull, usually along the lines of "what will i need to know today" or "what kind of day will i have". three times this week I've pulled HP, twice as an action and once as a possible outcome. That being said I've always read her as a signal that knowledge is out there,  not as a gatekeeper to let some in and keep others out. the knowledge or wisdom exists. and i don't know everything. and she is saying it's time to go looking for enlightenment, time for meditation, time for soul searching. and the topics of your search are dependant on the question asked and other cards that came up along with her. 

[katrinka]

Go with the gut. Sometimes the gut knows. 😉

[sixdegrees]

On 12/7/2018 at 4:41 PM, Wanderer said:

She's all  about the silent authority, and our belief that she possesses a deep wisdom and understanding.

 

I did a quick reading for the Seer as part of getting to know the card, and it seems to be saying that what is important is not whether she actually has that wisdom, but just that she is seen to. We need figures like her in order to offer guidance, security and knowledge, in the same way that many people find believing in a god to be comforting. Does it matter whether she actually possesses the wisdom that we ascribe to her? The oracle of Delphi was notoriously cryptic, most of the time... was that because of a Deeper Meaning, or was she acting out her role, being what people needed her to be?

 

So, 'sham' may be the wrong word; perhaps 'construction' would be better. Has anyone ever had the feeling that the HP is partly or purely a construction, in the sense of an archetype that humans have a deep-seated need for, irrespective of whether the figure actually fulfills the expectations? Is this why she stays so quiet..?

A fascinating conversation overall in this thread. To the mix of sham, construction, archetype, figurehead, etc., might I add the concept of the Subject Supposed to Know? It's from Lacanian psychoanalysis. Basically, it is the idea that the human psyche develops a notion that "I don't know this thing, but surely someone out there knows it," which provides a sense of security and normalcy in an inherently chaotic and random world. In an analytic session, the therapist must embody this generalized idea in order to initiate the relationship that is necessary for treatment (put bluntly, the client won't trust the therapist unless he/she believes that the therapist "knows" how to fix the client). But might the HP represent the notion broadly, in its diffuse form?

On 4/2/2020 at 1:04 PM, Barleywine said:

I never expect anything out of the HP except a riddle. Maybe we should replace her with a "Sphinx" card.

This is much closer to how I view the card. She indicates the experience of puzzlement and denial until one can realize the purpose of her presence. I was so happy to see that the Mythical Creatures Tarot actually used the Sphinx to signify her. Lately I've also come to see her as a facet of the Tao (embodying the qualities of passivity, receptiveness, paradox, non-meddling, and emptiness), which is supposedly the key to true wisdom but also very puzzling to most people accustomed to activity, reason, action, and substance.