5. The Ancestor

[Wanderer]

 

For a deck based in the days before Christianity, the Hierophant's card needs to be radically different. The entire concept of patriarchal, dogmatic doctrine and the permanence of established religion thought doesn't really apply. Although we don't know much at all about early Celtic religious practices or beliefs, the traces have been put back together based on historical detail, inspiration and spirit journeys. The Ancestor is very much a reflection of this reconstruction, and also to some extent represents a very personal perspective; here, she is based on the Greenwood Tarot, where the imagery came from Chesca's visions of her Guide: Elen of the Ways.

 

Elen doesn't feature heavily in this deck, but was critical to the creation of the Greenwood. The shamanic journeys were, it seems, often guided by Elen, and this tradition is followed in ilweran's meditations (see her compelling journal on this site). I'm almost reluctant to go there, because I don't feel that this deck, which did not involve Chesca at all, actually reflects her spirit journeys. However, even without the baggage, Elen of the Ways is an ancient figure in Celtic mythology, and has a history all of her own.

 

Known also as Elen Luyddoog, or Elen of the Hosts, she was the guardian of travellers, and protector of the pathways. At least one ancient road in Wales is still named as Sarn Elen. In this form, she has the head of a reindeer, which once inhabited the wild lands of Britain in the deep past. She is at one with the land, and the forest, and like the migratory reindeer, knows all the pathways of her world. She also frequents the pathways of spirit, and is just as much a guide for shamanic journeys.

 

The Ancestor combines this guardianship of the pathways with the ancestral knowledge of humanity. Her footsteps show the true path, for any who can follow her; she cannot go astray, and represents certainty in a bewildering world. No matter how lost one may feel, the Ancestor's experience and understanding provide truth that we can trust. Her drum is to summon those to can hear, to guide them to her path; especially for shamanic travellers, it can call them to safe destinations, providing a spiritual anchor. I've read the drumming as being like the heartbeat of the land, a call to memory, and a reminder of the truth outside your sphere of experience. All may be true, for she encapsulates so much.

 

For those wanting to link this card to the Hierophant directly in meaning, the best I can see is that calm assurance of certainty. When one is lost and doesn't know where to turn, we might look to the certainties of faith. The Ancestor, with her deep well of memory, and her inability to become lost, offers the same certainty. For her, though, the knowledge she carries is not about what should be, or what the scriptures dictate; it is simply about what is. There is no surer guide for exploring the Wildwood, and no safer guardian for the traveller; but you must choose to follow her call, and be willing to listen to her guidance. Only by accepting the wisdom of ancestral knowledge can you benefit from her gifts.

 

In terms of the Wheel of the Year, Elen represents Imbolc, the beginning of Spring and the start of the new year with the return of the Sun. A male counterpart reappears in this deck as The Stag, representing natural justice (or karma). Her role in guidance is not just related to protection of travellers, but also to initiating new cycles (of the year, or of life). She therefore represents new beginnings, and the determination to set out on new journeys. She also demands dedication and respect. Although she shows the way, she is not beholden to anyone who follows her, and those who stray from the path will have to fend for themselves. In modern human terms, one can make use of ancient knowledge only if we respect it; we cannot choose one bit, and ignore the parts we don't like. At least, not if we want the security and certainty that it offers. Once we are truly ready to strike out into the Wildwood on our own, then she will give her blessing, for we will have learned what we need to... and despite all the accumulated wisdom of the past, the future is still a world that must be built anew.

 

[Charlie Brown]

As far as connection to the Hierophant / Pope, do you think that, in addition to certainty, the tradition and/or legacy might come into play? After all, that's certainly an element in common to both formalized religion and families. Families, of course, are the source of our ancestors. 

[Wanderer]

Hi @Charlie Brown - sorry, I completely missed this! I normally get a ping to tell me there's been a reply, but it obviously didn't happen this time. 

 

So, thanks for getting involved here, and yes, I completely agree. The certainty that I mentioned is, indeed, in relation to traditional knowledge and understanding: it's a way of using the experience of our elders and predecessors to guide our own lives. I often think that it is only really language that separates us from other great apes in terms of the development of culture: we can build on all the experiences of the past, because they are passed on through tradition and ancestral knowledge. In the Hierophant, this has been rigidified and formalised, but with the Ancestor it is still fluid... but yes, just as potent. This difference between a pope, or a spirit guide, and our families matters, of course: what teenager wants to follow what their parents say, rather than discovering a "better" way on their own? Perhaps part of the reason why we have been drawn to figures like Elen, whether allegorical or in some way real, is that we can separate them from ourselves and bestow them with authority. This is where I feel it's not just about the experience and knowledge held by these ancestral guides, but also how we perceive them: when we see them as above ourselves, their authority can override our doubts and self-confidence. The Ancestor, being more than an old relative, forces us to listen by virtue of who she is. 

 

Does that make sense? 

[WildWoman71]

The Ancestor card for me - is all about listening to my intuition - my inner voice - trusting that I am being guided by something more than just my life experience.  It also provides a message that I am on a new journey - one that I can not turn back from.

 

I  should know I am protected and this path will help in my growth (birch trees).  Trees are also said to be the homes of spirits - so it is comforting to feel that my own Ancestors are with me on this journey - protecting me - guiding me - offering me their wisdom.

 

The Stag - the antlers on a Stag is another message of urging me to listen to my inner voice.

[SilverLeaf]

On 1/20/2021 at 12:22 PM, WildWoman71 said:

 It also provides a message that I am on a new journey - one that I can not turn back from.

 

I totally agree here, in readings for others, this card typically has referred to a very potent and primal calling, something that is an undeniable "purpose" that one feels compelled to follow. I find this card so much liberating and empowering in this deck (compared to the traditional Hierophant, which has always felt so stiff and authoritarian to me). Trusting your inner path feels like such a fundamental aspect of this card's energy to me.

[WildWoman71]

Quote

 I find this card so much liberating and empowering in this deck (compared to the traditional Hierophant

Agreed- the Hierophant for me was always about society's imposed traditions and rules and laws - I find this card so very comforting and one of purpose - like you say above.

 

editted:

A card that says it's okay to follow our own intuition and trust in the traditions and principles we create for ourselves - boundaries even...

Edited January 22, 2021 by WildWoman71

[Wanderer]

I really like this - the emphasis on the Ancestor pushing us onto a path, rather than just dictating to us. The same degree of authority is there, but it's from a sheltering figure that has at least a hint of a personal relationship to us, rather than someone remote and aloof. I also get the sense that you can't turn back from this path; it's somehow embodied in the sternness of the Ancestor. This figure demands respect, but is obviously there to help.

[WildWoman71]

Quote

 really like this - the emphasis on the Ancestor pushing us onto a path, rather than just dictating to us. The same degree of authority is there, but it's from a sheltering figure that has at least a hint of a personal relationship to us, rather than someone remote and aloof. I also get the sense that you can't turn back from this path; it's somehow embodied in the sternness of the Ancestor. This figure demands respect, but is obviously there to help.

OMG YES!!! Maybe not as pushing us on our path - but guiding us even

[Wanderer]

14 minutes ago, WildWoman71 said:

OMG YES!!! Maybe not as pushing us on our path - but guiding us even

Shepherding, perhaps? It's guidance, but I'm not we have much choice in the matter...

[WildWoman71]

Yes I agree Wanderer that we do not have a choice in the matter....how do you see the difference between shepherding and guiding?

[SilverLeaf]

To me, the "lack of choice" doesn't feel like one is being compelled, its more like: once you've answered the call and seen your truth, it's basically impossible to un-see it. This is more semantics regarding the guiding/shepherding language, but to me, a guide is more "someone ahead of you that you follow', and a shepherd is more "someone nudging you constructively from behind you".

[Wanderer]

Yes, it's subtle... and probably we can't pin down the card to any one aspect in all cases, but it's still interesting to explore the options. So, a shepherd moves the sheep where they want them, and trying to choose to different path won't get you very far. You might escape briefly, but almost certainly, you'll be herded back again. If, by some fluke, you do evade all the shepherd's plans, and escape... then you realise life is much, much harder, and you probably ought to go back and do what they suggested in the first place! Shepherding is gentle, but in the end, you follow their demands - because they really do know best.

    For the most part, guidance is much more casual, to me. You can choose to 'hire' a guide, or not. You can choose to listen to them, or follow them... or not. You have a lot more freedom than you do with a shepherd.

 

I guess it comes back to the aspect of authority. With the Hierophant, one does what he says, because of who he is. With the Ancestor, I feel much the same way; if Elen visits and guides you, then you know you'd better pay attention. Her advice would be compelling, even though it isn't enforced.

    

[WildWoman71]

I'm not sure I'm prescribing to the shepherding aspect...although my take on the Ancestor as a guide may not be mainstream.  Ancestor spirits are also known as guardian's in some cultures that help us learn life lessons - the Stag in some relate it the Soul.  I see this guide as someone who reminds one to listen to their intuition, tap into their wisdom, protect one as they move along our Soul's journey...to me, we are following our own intuition on this particular path - and the Ancestor is their to support and comfort

[Wanderer]

Interesting... but even if we all have different takes on the meaning, there's nothing wrong with that. The old idea of Elen was indeed a protector of travellers, as well as a protector of the paths themselves. That said, there is a lot of confusion over the origin of the various equivalent figures known as Elen... was she an early Christian saint who established churches around Wales, or did that story adapt an older tradition that has left no written records? While she appears a lot as a goddess in shamanic work, the goddess herself is hard to characterise as an 'ancestor'. In the end, we all take this card as it speaks to us; what matters is that the full range of the meanings we need is present in the deck as a whole, as we each read it.

   Some of what you say may well come back in my readings now, and the guardianship is certainly part of the story; however, I do still see the guide as being more about external direction rather than internal and intuitive. It's brilliant to have these discussions, in order to show the range of interpretation, and I certainly don't have any authority on a 'true' or universal meaning!

[surreal]

Hi
I am new to this deck and on reading the above wonder if anyone has any ideas about the darker side of the card. After all every card has a good and a bad side. With the hierophant in more traditional decks it is easy to see the darker side. I find this harder to see that way.

[SilverLeaf]

44 minutes ago, surreal said:

Hi
I am new to this deck and on reading the above wonder if anyone has any ideas about the darker side of the card. After all every card has a good and a bad side. With the hierophant in more traditional decks it is easy to see the darker side. I find this harder to see that way.

Hi @surreal, well, regarding dark/light energies, to me, both cards have an aspect of "surrender" to them. Whether this is "good" or "bad" is probably highly subjective depending on the person surrendering and the energy being surrendered to?

[SilverLeaf]

I think there is a natural tension on any spiritual path between Dogma and Intuition, these can reinforce one another, or be perceived as antagonistic forces depending on the context.

[ilweran]

10 hours ago, Wanderer said:

the goddess herself is hard to characterise as an 'ancestor'.

I think she is an ancestor in that, in the Greenwood, she is the creatrix and therefore ancestor of all life.

 

9 hours ago, surreal said:

Hi
I am new to this deck and on reading the above wonder if anyone has any ideas about the darker side of the card. After all every card has a good and a bad side. With the hierophant in more traditional decks it is easy to see the darker side. I find this harder to see that way.

Maybe not so much a bad side as a difficult side? She'll show you where you need to go rather than where you want to go which may be challenging. Not evident in this card, but I've experienced her as a dark goddess.

[Wanderer]

11 hours ago, ilweran said:

I think she is an ancestor in that, in the Greenwood, she is the creatrix and therefore ancestor of all life.

Thanks, ilweran! This is where the Greenwood basically became its own mythology, I think... I may be wrong, but I don't believe this idea comes from any ancient traditions, but rather through Chesca's spirit journeys. When it comes to the Wildwood, then, we're left with options as to whether to follow the Greenwood mythos that was a precursor of the deck (but very different in style and philosophy), or the North European tradition that it is centred on. Or some form of both, of course!

 

21 hours ago, surreal said:

I am new to this deck and on reading the above wonder if anyone has any ideas about the darker side of the card. After all every card has a good and a bad side. With the hierophant in more traditional decks it is easy to see the darker side. I find this harder to see that way.

Welcome, Surreal! thanks for joining in.   So, to me the deck isn't about absolutes of light and dark; shades of grey dominate, and their tone depends on the situation. I can very easily see this card as requiring responsibility to take precedence over our desires: she is telling us what path we must follow, and isn't going to take no for an answer. It's very interesting to hear @ilweran saying she's experienced Elen as a dark goddess, and I can see that; the inhabitants of the Wildwood have their own agendas, and are largely amoral from a human perspective... they work for the benefit of the Wildwood (i.e. the world) itself, and for necessity rather than our pleasure. Duty can be heavier than a mountain, and she is not a figure to cross lightly.

    Of course, many other facets can come into play with a darker side showing up in specific positions within a spread... it just depends on the context.

[WildWoman71]

Quote

Maybe not so much a bad side as a difficult side? She'll show you where you need to go rather than where you want to go which may be challenging. Not evident in this card, but I've experienced her as a dark goddess.

 

I love this take - taking you to where you need to go rather that where you want...funny I had a day 'vision/dream' while driving to a friends house yesterday - an hour and a half - I started comparing the Wanderer and the Ancestor...

 

For me, both are on a path - a journey - a new experience - but the Wanderer's path seems to be a result of a conscious decision - whereas the path with the Ancestor is more of a subconscious one - both very real journeys - one perhaps being guided by thoughts and the other by what...soul's purpose - our true hearts desire - an unexplained energy pull...

 

thoughts...

[SilverLeaf]

9 hours ago, WildWoman71 said:

For me, both are on a path - a journey - a new experience - but the Wanderer's path seems to be a result of a conscious decision - whereas the path with the Ancestor is more of a subconscious one - both very real journeys - one perhaps being guided by thoughts and the other by what...soul's purpose - our true hearts desire - an unexplained energy pull...

 

thoughts...

@WildWoman71, my thought is that The Ancestor's part of The Wanderer's journey, is the point where one realizes where the path might be leading ("stuff's about to get REAL"), there's a solemnity to that realization, the carefree beginning is replaced with a new sense of serious purpose, a responsibility.

[Wanderer]

7 hours ago, SilverLeaf said:

there's a solemnity to that realization, the carefree beginning is replaced with a new sense of serious purpose, a responsibility.

Absolutely! There's also, for me, a sense of responsibility or duty to the path ahead. Rather than being an free, individual explorer, the Ancestor guides us towards our place in the larger scheme of things, whether we want to go there or not...

 

[blue_crow_laura]

On 1/24/2021 at 2:23 AM, Wanderer said:

the inhabitants of the Wildwood have their own agendas, and are largely amoral from a human perspective... they work for the benefit of the Wildwood (i.e. the world) itself, and for necessity rather than our pleasure. Duty can be heavier than a mountain, and she is not a figure to cross lightly.

 

 

This is my feeling about the deck, too. Each card is basically a complete meditation on a specific area of the system of the world, with all its light and dark, all its joy and sorrow.

 

The Ancestor often feels heavy to me, but that's based on my own life experience, I think. Tradition can be a shackle...or it can be the fertile homeland that nurtures great beauty. Many of the most beautiful works of human endeavor have been created within The Church (whatever the official "The Church" was at a particular time, in a particular place.) Thomas Merton, Meister Eckhart, Dante, George Herbert, the Sufi poets, the Greek poets...all were writing from within their own inherited traditions, even if some of them stretched the boundaries a bit. Oh, and I can't forget Enhedduanna, one of the first poets we have on written record (and a woman too) who wrote the most amazing hymns to Inanna, the goddess of that particular time and place. 

 

And that's not to mention all the incredible visual art and architecture that's been created for and within religious traditions ever since human civilization began. So there's obviously something to be said for "blooming where you're planted." 

 

All that said, I've deliberately moved away from some of my own inherited traditions, so the Ancestor brings up some heavy contradictions for me. Should we stay where we are, in a tradition, and try to reform it from within? Do we work with what we're given, make it our own? Do we move away and attack it from outside, or maybe try to ignore it entirely? Is tradition limited to the last two or three generations of my immediate family, or can it stretch to earlier ancestors? Is the way I'm relating to my ancestry right now helpful to me, or is it self-destructive? Do I really know what I'm fighting, if I'm fighting either against or for some traditional ideal? Is my idea of my inherited or community tradition even accurate, or is it limited somehow by my own misperceptions or the misperceptions of my family or origin? 

 

...and a hundred other questions. This is one of the cards I draw regularly, along with the Hierophant in other decks. I have lots of questions for it, and it for me. 🙂 

[WildWoman71]

@blue_crow_laura - for me, I don't connect the Ancestor so much to traditions - although I may now 😉.  It also brings messages of very old wounds - like the Witch' wound , and the sister wound.  Cycles in our family and our own DNA that need healing in order to break certain habits and/or personal behaviors - learned from our mothers, and grandmothers.

[blue_crow_laura]

7 hours ago, WildWoman71 said:

 Cycles in our family and our own DNA that need healing in order to break certain habits and/or personal behaviors - learned from our mothers, and grandmothers.

 I agree! 🙂  I believe I do include your concepts under my umbrella term, "tradition." So many woundings are encoded in traditions of all sorts: community religious traditions that shun (or worse) nonconformists; family traditions that don't allow for breaking of gender or caste or class norms; national traditions that foster certain destructive tendencies in its people, like unbalanced aggression/machismo or unreasoned xenophobia; and so on. All traditions are passed down from individual to individual, from parent to child, from adult to youth; they may be shared by the many, but they're also personal, and taught/enforced/reinforced on a very intimate level by, yes, our mothers, grandmothers, etc..

 

But it's not all bad! I think that's why I like the Ancestor card better than the Hierophant card in other decks: I can pick out the positives better in the Ancestor. It's like she holds both the problems and the remedies, whereas I often tend to see only the tyrannical, enforced-conformity, "religion in service to secular power" parts of the Hierophant. I know this is an unbalanced view of the Hierophant based on my upbringing in a very repressive, hypocritical, and destructive environment in the Bible Belt of the U.S., and the Ancestor helps me see both sides.

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by blue_crow_laura
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