Gilded Reverie, Extended Edition

[katrinka]

On 6/8/2020 at 5:43 AM, MoonBear said:

Thanks For the advice but I don’t really know what the French or the German school is because I only have certain online sources or PDFs where there is not stated which kind of school it is

There are no "schools". That's a misconceived idea that everybody in France uses the same meanings, and then you cross the border into Germany and everybody there is the same, but different from France. Or Belgium, for that matter.

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The most old meanings I can find Are much too much based on fortune-telling for my liking like the fish mean money which is not applicable when I for instance ask what is the reason for this or that feeling or behaviour

Well, yes. Fish is abundance and money. If you have money in the thousands coming, you'll probably see Fish-Stars.
That's how the system is designed. But you can still ask about feelings and behavior and get answers.

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I just have the Feeling that I can’t apply this old meanings to my questions I like the Modern  interpretations best

for me I try to not only rely on my intuition but intuition is just a thing that comes often times I also get other images in my head when I’m looking at the cards but I try to incorporate both I don’t also know if I am a complete beginner because I have worked with Tarot and other Oracle systems already although I know that Lenormand it’s completely different than Tarot 

You would do well to study Andy Boroveshengra's book.
He's a member here @leroidetrèfle
Be warned, though, he's explained these things many times over and may not want to spend a great deal of time explaining.  It's best to just purchase the book.
Every card has an essence, and you put that in context. You can ask about internal events as well as what's happening outside. There's no "vs." That's a false divide.

If I had to have just one deck, it would be a Lenormand, since it does everything.

Edited June 9, 2020 by katrinka

[DanielJUK]

I wrote very early on in the thread but I still can't decide if I like the extra cards or not! I actually have both versions of the deck and I am glad I have the extended version after many years of wishing I had the extra cards! The problem for me with the extra cards is that I don't really know the cards in my head, I haven't studied and learnt them like the other cards. It's easy to read the cards with looking at them or reading the small info about them from the book. But it's extremely tricky to use them in combination with other cards, you get Garden and Dice, you then spend ages thinking how on earth that works out!

 

It's tricky to use them in a reading. But when I use them I think it adds to the reading. I did some monthly readings last year on my journal here and did a 9 square, I didn't realise till afterwards that they actually told me I would have to renew my passport in the month. My passport was expired but I suddenly had to show some photo id for some govt bureaucracy, I medically cannot drive  so no drivers license and so my only way of getting it was the passport renewal. It was funny I had Tower in the middle of the spread in dealing with authorities. The spread predicted a lot of stuff I didn't know what would happen and Mask and Wishing Well cards kept coming up in lines. My conclusion is I think they are tricky to use in combinations and you really have to work them out for yourself but they do add to readings, some extra dimension. The suggestion of the passport drama that month only came up with the extra cards I think but bureaucracy dealings was shown in the original cards.

[Barleywine]

I use Lenormand quite effectively for "behaviors." For "feelings" I find Kipper better because it has more complex and descriptive "people" cards. With Lenormand more extrapolation is required.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, katrinka said:

There are no "schools". That's a misconceived idea that everybody in France uses the same meanings, and then you cross the border into Germany and everybody there is the same, but different from France. Or Belgium, for that matter.

Well, yes. Fish is abundance and money. If you have money in the thousands coming, you'll probably see Fish-Stars.
That's how the system is designed. But you can still ask about feelings and behavior and get answers.

You would do well to study Andy Boroveshengra's book.
He's a member here @leroidetrèfle
Be warned, though, he's explained these things many times over and may not want to spend a great deal of time explaining.  It's best to just purchase the book.
Every card has an essence, and you put that in context. You can ask about internal events as well as what's happening outside. There's no "vs." That's a false divide.

If I had to have just one deck, it would be a Lenormand, since it does everything.

I’ve been somewhat sick over the last few days, so one may not be as coherent as I should like to be.

Our feelings and motivations are indeed easily discerned from the cards. The Sun indicates warm feelings and clarity of mind and purpose.  The Bear is someone who a habituate and subject to powerful sways of feelings and even envy.  
 

All of these are derived from the essence of the picture. 
 

Disclaimer: I’m not attacking anyone or claiming to be right, here.

 

I agree with @katrinkaon schools. The concept is the product of an oversimplification and misunderstanding (and its appropriateness is questionable I believe). Claims that one country reads in one manner, and another follows a different route, and that the two shall never meet, is nonsensical. Similarly, schools confuse meanings with function (cartes maîtresses). No card means work or sex. 

 

The term itself appears to originate with Serena Powers who referenced a ’school of thought’ about the cards’ meanings she posted.  These were cited as ”French,” but come, not from France, but a Dutch source.
 

Typically, French school refers to a paradigm outlined by Mary Marco, who was a Tunisian-born Italian. Marco’s book was very influential in France and amongst Walloon readers. The “French” meanings on AT were translated from Moony’s website: Moony is not French but a Walloon. Silvestre and Delclos (who are French authors) differ to Marco in several ways. You can see the same with both Elvira and Moony with Marco. Elvira follows Marco closely, but associates sex with the Lilies. 
 

German schools are even less consistent — compare Britta to Treppner or to Weng, &c.

 

As such, one cannot claim that there is strict differentia to identify the core significations. What exists is more akin to regionalisms than any nationalistic interpretation. For example, I say “writing paper,” but my colleagues say, “note paper.” My colleagues often refer to lunch as dinner and also say mom rather than mum.  
 

Some readers see the dominance of the bear as being more paternal.  Others remember that bears are raised by sows not boars.

 

The real big differences come in terms of forming combinations and pairs. 
 

Edited to Add: The above reflects my own thoughts and understanding of the concept of schools. It’s not a rebuttal of any other person or stance.  

Edited June 10, 2020 by Guest

[katrinka]

On 6/9/2020 at 7:01 PM, DanielJUK said:

The problem for me with the extra cards is that I don't really know the cards in my head, I haven't studied and learnt them like the other cards.

I don't have the Gilded Reverie, but I do have the Rana George with its extras: Spirit, Incense Burner, Bed and Market.
I find them easy enough, using the same logic that's used for the original 36: we know dogs are friends, for instance. They're happy when we come home, they alert us when people come in the yard. They don't care if we're broke, or what we look like. They tend to follow us around. So it's easy to infer platonic friendship and loyalty from that for the Dog card. It's fairly easy to apply the same logic to extra cards. I don't really find them necessary, though. The original 36 will cover virtually anything.

 

On 6/9/2020 at 7:01 PM, DanielJUK said:

But it's extremely tricky to use them in combination with other cards, you get Garden and Dice, you then spend ages thinking how on earth that works out!

Public + chance/risk, gamble, or games, according to context?

On 6/9/2020 at 7:57 PM, Barleywine said:

I use Lenormand quite effectively for "behaviors." For "feelings" I find Kipper better because it has more complex and descriptive "people" cards. With Lenormand more extrapolation is required.

I'm not really a fan of switching decks for different kinds of questions. Any deck worth its salt should be able to tell you how somebody feels, if that's what you're asking about.

(But, that said, I don't really like feelings questions. Peoples' feelings can change moment to moment.)

 

14 hours ago, leroidetrèfle said:

As such, one cannot claim that there is strict differentia to identify the core significations. What exists is more akin to regionalisms than any nationalistic interpretation. For example, I say “writing paper,” but my colleagues say, “note paper.” My colleagues often refer to lunch as dinner and also say mom rather than mum.  

Yes! Where I live, people tend to say "soda water", but you might hear "coke", "soda", or "soft drink".
And people have always been mobile. So all of that is in constant flux.

 

 

[Barleywine]

7 hours ago, katrinka said:

I don't really like feelings questions. Peoples' feelings can change moment to moment.

 

 

I also avoid "thinks and feels" questions because they're too much like mind-reading or "psychic fishing expeditions" for my taste. I also don't think much of using the cards for psychological profiling; astrology works much better for that purpose.

[Guest]

On 6/11/2020 at 7:17 AM, katrinka said:

Public + chance/risk, gamble, or games, according to context?

I'm not really a fan of switching decks for different kinds of questions. Any deck worth its salt should be able to tell you how somebody feels, if that's what you're asking about.

 

The Park + Dice could indicate a casino, Coney Island, amusement parks or any recreational space that has games, &c. 
 

For me, the Park is first and foremost a place.

 

It’s also a contact card, too. So when it connects with a “person card,” such as the Serpent or Hound, that is when you know these cards are people and not situations. 

 

I did author meanings for these extra cards, and also did a GT, and discussed them with Ciro (it was the limited first edition). The meanings I derived were drawn from the period as much as possible. But I never followed through as I just don’t think extra cards fit within the Lenormand paradigm.  
 

Ciro is incredibly educated and extremely talented. He puts a lot of thought into his cards — look at the Letter and the Cross, &c. You can find meaningful interpretations. It’s just questioning how much that is necessary. 

[DownUnderNZer]

On 6/10/2020 at 10:57 AM, Barleywine said:

I use Lenormand quite effectively for "behaviors." For "feelings" I find Kipper better because it has more complex and descriptive "people" cards. With Lenormand more extrapolation is required.

 

True. Kipper does have more people cards and I most definitely like them too.

[DownUnderNZer]

On 6/10/2020 at 10:01 AM, DanielJUK said:

I wrote very early on in the thread but I still can't decide if I like the extra cards or not! I actually have both versions of the deck and I am glad I have the extended version after many years of wishing I had the extra cards! The problem for me with the extra cards is that I don't really know the cards in my head, I haven't studied and learnt them like the other cards. It's easy to read the cards with looking at them or reading the small info about them from the book. But it's extremely tricky to use them in combination with other cards, you get Garden and Dice, you then spend ages thinking how on earth that works out!

 

It's tricky to use them in a reading. But when I use them I think it adds to the reading. I did some monthly readings last year on my journal here and did a 9 square, I didn't realise till afterwards that they actually told me I would have to renew my passport in the month. My passport was expired but I suddenly had to show some photo id for some govt bureaucracy, I medically cannot drive  so no drivers license and so my only way of getting it was the passport renewal. It was funny I had Tower in the middle of the spread in dealing with authorities. The spread predicted a lot of stuff I didn't know what would happen and Mask and Wishing Well cards kept coming up in lines. My conclusion is I think they are tricky to use in combinations and you really have to work them out for yourself but they do add to readings, some extra dimension. The suggestion of the passport drama that month only came up with the extra cards I think but bureaucracy dealings was shown in the original cards.

@DanielJUK

 

They do add flavour for certain, but can be tricky to remember offhand if you don't work with them all the time or maybe look back on readings months later only the deck isnt directly on hand.

 

I think they are cool, but would never use them again in a GT. Traditional is good enough! But sometimes you gotta give things a whirl.

 

I like that the cards in general make sense when things eventually happen as well - like your passport being renewed.

 

DND 🌞

[DownUnderNZer]

@MoonBear

 

Petit Lenormand Encyclopedia: Volume 1& 2.      Bjorn Meuris

 

These are exemplary pieces of work where you won't be left wondering about something or not understanding anything when it comes to basics and beyond. I don't think I have come across anyone yet that doesn't speak highly of these volumes. 

 

Have seen snippets of one of them (volume one) some years back and thought it was actually quite solid, whereas some book samples I read back in the day when on AT, didn't quite sit right for me. One of them, just some years after it was published, had a young Irish girl telling me - she couldn't get passed two cards. I felt so sorry for her yet I thought good on her for giving it a go!

 

I feel these are well priced, but some may find them a bit expensive. The second one is what I'm weighing up to own as I would like to see if it holds its value, and as there is one person I know that has it, I will see how she sums it up first now that she has had it some months. The last time we spoke she raved about it and that was before the virus and lockdown. She isn't a beginner with the Lenormand either and thought it was excellent for those starting out.

 

Assess everything out there first and thoroughly whether books and/or online resources before investing time and money. What might be good for Jill or Sam might not be good for you and vice a versa.

 

 

DND 🌞

[cirom]

On 6/3/2020 at 8:27 AM, FLizarraga said:

 

 

Alas, it happens to the best of us... 🥰

 

I'm glad there is some conversation about this deck. I think it is brilliant, and I'm happy it came out in a mass-published edition, since the original self-published one is long gone and Ciro has expressed time and again his disinterest in reprinting it.

It's not that I was disinterested in reprinting. Its that by licensing decks to major publishers (usually a year or two after my self published editions have sold out) they are reproduced in greater numbers, distributed world wide and available at a lower cost. In other words more accessible to more people who might otherwise not be able to afford or justify a signed special edition.

[cirom]

The Gilded Reverie with extra cards (extended edition) Matched my initial self published edition. The inclusion of these extra cards were never intended to be a substitute or modification to any traditional system or methodology. Should you not wish to use them, then simply limit yourself to the core 1 through 36, all others are optional extras. Nevertheless I envisioned a rational for the extra cards and how they might be used in conjunction with the core deck. Ironically the reason they were not included in the first mass produced edition released by US Games was because I feared they would not be taken seriously by a tradition loving Lenormand audience. My concerns seemed to have been unwarranted, people were asking where were the extra cards they had heard about. So when it was time for a re-print Image I gave the ok for them to be included. I must say I'm rather honored and surprised at how well it has been received, even in its traditional German homeland. Its actually the publishers best selling "non tarot" deck. I'm attaching here a PDF that provides an explanation for what I had in mind with those extra cards. However its important to note that my ides are just that....mine, not commandments written in stone. I invited readers to come up with their own ways of interpreting these cards and incorporating them into their readings. They have certainly done so in numerous imaginative ways.. so overall I consider the project to have been a success. Members of this forum are welcome to download this PDF but please do not share it. This deck is probably one of the most pirated of any deck. This PDF would make it of greater appeal. Thank you for your understanding.

LENORAMND EXTRA CARDS b.pdf

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, cirom said:

Ironically the reason they were not included in the first mass produced edition released by US Games was because I feared they would not be taken seriously by a tradition loving Lenormand audience.

I resemble that remark. 🤣
But there's nothing redundant in the extras. While the Clover, for instance, has an element of chance and luck, it doesn't quite say what the Dice are saying.
I think the Clock is a solid addition to virtually any deck. Etc.

 

[DanielJUK]

thanks for posting the pdf of the extra cards @cirom that is really helpful. I am sorry you are having such problems with piracy at the moment, it's not fair to all the wonderful work you put into your decks 😞❤️

[ShadowMoon]

Gilded Reverie being my one and only Lenormand deck I gotta say I'm loving it! I've never used any other deck before, and for now don't even intend nor feel like purchasing a new one. Do I really need to get a different one? 

 

The little book that came with the deck is mighty helpful with readings, but I would still like to purchase a "learners guide to Lenormand" if anyone can recommend something suitable for beginners.