Paganism

[katrinka]

18 hours ago, gregory said:

OK he says to that - that although some Quakers feel that their inner light has led them to find the teachings of Jesus particularly illuminating, and express themselves in Christian language, others find light in other religions, in humanism, philosophy, or in the practice of deep meditation or out of body experiences. Quakers are a very diverse community. What holds them together is this belief in inner light, pacifism, simple living and the equality of humankind. A traditional Quaker would go as far as addressing the queen as Elizabeth Windsor! They have no time for honorifics and the like.

I like that.
People in high offices are just people. Some are quite capable. Others - I don't know WTH happened. Peter Principle run amok?
I can respect the queen for things she's done, like her service in WWII. I don't respect titles.

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Quakerism's ORIGINS were in protestant Christianity but even in the early days, the witness was more through the way they lived than in any set of rigid beliefs. There are advices and queries as they call them (here you go: https://qfp.quaker.org.uk/chapter/1/ 

There's a lot of Christian references there. More than I'm really comfortable with, even if they mean a lot of them metaphorically. But I've developed a kind of allergy from hearing all the evangelical insanity and hate-spewing these last few decades.

I think a lot of people have developed that allergy. That's why so many are identifying as pagan, etc. When I was a kid, nobody thought about any of this. Everybody was nominally what their family was, but a lot of them were nonpracticing. I used to hear a lot of people say things like "My church is in the woods." So there was a reverence for nature. But now people feel a real need to distance themselves from churches.

I'm sure the Quakers are much saner. The link calls Christianity A way, not THE way.

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- they took out the word Christian from the title several years ago because it is not exclusively Christian, and it was seen to be inappropriate ! God is mentioned in there a lot - but as he says, it's an old book, and would take an awful lot of consensus to edit !) but there is no Quaker creed. Also, of course, in most Quaker communities outside the USA, there is no form of worship and there are no formal prayers. They don't celebrate Christmas or Easter as religious festivals as the inner light is equally discoverable at any time of year, not particularly on a special religious occasion. (In the US there are "programmed meetings"; he has never come across one in the UK.)

I googled that and found this video. http://quakerspeak.com/difference-between-programmed-unprogrammed-quaker-worship/

The unprogrammed meetings sound like the kind of things you're talking about. Very nice. But the programmed ones - pastors, sermons....somebody even mentioned an "evangelical Friends meeting."
These groups really run the gamut.

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Because all Quaker decisions must be made by consensus, some of the older terminology - such as "meeting for worship" still survives because no-one has yet agreed on a suitable change, even though very few of them - in the UK at least - see themselves as worshipping in the Christian sense of the word. Canadian Quakers, he says, find it very strange that in the UK,  the term "elder" is still used for anyone holding a post of responsibility in a local meeting, which they see as archaic. As treasurer, he suddenly says, he supposes he is an "elder" of sorts - this had never occurred to him till this minute. That's how much it means.

I like that.
A lot of this stuff does seem to be regional, just looking at the places that the people in the video were from. Chico, CA, unprogrammed. Iowa, very programmed.
North Carolina surprised me, though. 🙂

Edited July 22, 2019 by katrinka

[gregory]

4 hours ago, katrinka said:

These groups really run the gamut.

I like that.
A lot of this stuff does seem to be regional, just looking at the places that the people in the video were from. Chico, CA, unprogrammed. Iowa, very programmed.
North Carolina surprised me, though. 🙂

They do run the gamut. Because it is all totally non-prescriptive. It's almost do your own thing. Except you don't get to be nasty to others - or to try and convert anyone to anything.

[devin]

We had an  unprogrammed Quaker deputy defence minister here in South Africa about ten years back. Strange, hey? [EDIT: Upon reflection, I think it was longer than 10 years ago.)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nozizwe_Madlala-Routledge

Edited July 22, 2019 by devin

[Arch]

I took the quiz and I got Taoism, not surprised as that is what I am.

[ashjey]

I came back and took the quiz. I got secular humanism! Followed by liberal quakerism and unitarian universalism 😂 

 

I did expect most people here to be on the more spiritual side of belief. 

 

Edit: I would not label myself as part of any religion or belief, though. There is just way too much labeling going on these days. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by ashjey

[AJ-ish/Sharyn]

6 hours ago, ashjey said:

 

please disregard 

Edited July 24, 2019 by AJ-ish/Sharyn

[bastetly]

That site just called me a neo-pagan!  I guess that is what happens when you answer mostly w "I don't know" mixed w a couple of positives on "nature reverence".  🙂

The breakdown was

New Age lol barf

Taoism

Secular Humanism

w 7th D.A's and Jehovah's Witnesses dead last.  Guess those ladies knockin on my door are in for the runaround!  Nah, I'm always nice and smiley, but honest w them.  

 

[katrinka]

40 minutes ago, bastetly said:

That site just called me a neo-pagan!  I guess that is what happens when you answer mostly w "I don't know" mixed w a couple of positives on "nature reverence".  🙂

The breakdown was

New Age lol barf

Taoism

Secular Humanism

w 7th D.A's and Jehovah's Witnesses dead last.  Guess those ladies knockin on my door are in for the runaround!  Nah, I'm always nice and smiley, but honest w them.  

 

I can relate, lol.
Religion is interesting as metaphor. And sometimes we need an "invisible means of support", like the guys in the foxholes did.
I don't believe in Skydaddy, but I'm not quite an atheist. I've tripped balls, lol. And there's something bigger and weirder than we can get our little meat minds around. It really IS in the woods, in a pagan-y kind of way. It literally told me "I could kill you, but your bumbling amuses me. Carry on for now, child, you have my blessings."
But I think it's mostly impersonal. It's just THERE.
There are certain emanations you can call on in a pinch. Tara and Kuan Yin seem to do something. I've had no luck with God or Jesus. Maybe his followers have poisoned the well?
Anyway, there is no religion that matches up with the way I experience life. And theocracies are horrible, but for Tibet and the government in exile. But the Dalai Lama has given up secular leadership - he sees all the ways it could potentially go wrong. I respect the Dalai Lama, he thinks.
In spite of all that, though, I'm not really a Buddhist, either.
I'm just me.

[katrinka]

In retrospect, I guess that all these years I've been trying to experience it. And I have, to some degree, but it doesn't match up to any prepackaged religion.
I like Judaism. Not the "Because G-d said so!" level, but the study - the come-out-and-play-with-me levels of Hebrew, the true Kabbalah, the Mishnas and the commentaries - OMG, if I could only read them.
Buddhism because compassion is a true shortcut. Smoke, drink, swear, f*** around, etc. but treat beings right in the process. Feeding stray cats and dogs counts for much more than not smoking or drinking, or keeping your panties on, or not being gay, or any of the other BS they say is wrong.
Whatever is behind life and the universe is not concerned with any of that.

Edited July 26, 2019 by katrinka

[bastetly]

@katrinka And "faith w/o works is dead", or one is if ya don't try and be the difference.  Prayers fm foxholes/trenches mandatory, and prayers for someone who is very ill, the Drs. say those patients have higher survival rates.  So who am I to negate it?  I'm glad something works some of the time.  Gratitude and compassion are keys to happiness and meaning in life ime, if one is looking for meaning, which most Religions "pretense" to fill ...  I have tried some very different paths and learned something fm them all, including Islam.  The Qur'an has a certain beauty to it and some of its principles were incorporated into our founding principles here in the U.S.  But give me enough time and I poke every sacred "cow",  so the affair never lasts SIGH   and yet many people are just not comforted w/o faith of some kind.  I was raised by agnostics and for that I am grateful.  My mother and brother to this day do not understand my searches for Meaning!  smdh  So no de-programming needed there.  Personally I now find "not knowing" rather freeing, although        I kinda would like to know someday.  But a Mystery is just that.  We may get closer but it's probably within us anyway already, which invites:  

 

Entheogens, if taken w some preparation and in nature, whew dogies--there's a shortcut to Feeling the Mystery.  I truly think they contribute leaps in our evolution.  Hmmmm that poll didn't mention that exactly.  Just please don't trip and drive 😉

 

And I really enjoy Kevin Smith's movie DOGMA.  Probably sound like a mass of contradictions?    OH WELLLL  hahaa

[AfternoonTarot]

On 7/25/2019 at 6:40 PM, katrinka said:

Anyway, there is no religion that matches up with the way I experience life. 

This is what I have found as well.  

 

On 7/25/2019 at 7:19 PM, katrinka said:

In retrospect, I guess that all these years I've been trying to experience it. 

I’ve gone through periods, too, where I tried to experience something or have tried to be very open to experiencing something so said something could manifest.  I’ve experienced transcendence and interpreted things as potentially being numinous but always concluded these were brain states, with any potential meaning provided by me.   I’m at peace with this now.

 

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I will say that I think being responsible for one’s own meaning-making is hard work.