salamandrina Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 Hi everyone, I'm looking for opinions on deck quality from the various major publishers of decks. For example decks printed by US Games, Lewellyn etc rather than self published decks. How do you find the card stock and durability of these kind of mass produced decks? Is one company better than another in any respect?
PathWalker Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 I honestly don't think it's as simple as one suppler over another. Sometimes a certain deck from a usually good supplier will chip at the edges, or have a tendency to be slippery or bend, which other decks from them don't have. There are so many possibilities in the production process, and those decisions effect the final product, that it is often a deck by deck basis as to how folks find them. The only thing I could say is that decks where the printed colours run right up to the card edge ("borderless") seem more likely to suffer or show chipping of the colour than those with white borders. perhaps other folks can help. best wishes PathWalker
Raggydoll Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 These are only my opinions, but I like the quality from US games and Lo Scarabeo, but I’m not as thrilled about Llewellyn or Schiffer. Generally speaking, glossy decks tend to stick more together and also seem more fragile. Plus they are harder to trim nicely. I prefer matte or semi-glossy decks with thicker cardstock. And I am a sucker for high quality, independently published decks.
Guest Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, Raggydoll said: These are only my opinions, but I like the quality from US games and Lo Scarabeo, but I’m not as thrilled about Llewellyn or Schiffer. Generally speaking, glossy decks tend to stick more together and also seem more fragile. Plus they are harder to trim nicely. I prefer matte or semi-glossy decks with thicker cardstock. And I am a sucker for high quality, independently published decks. I second Raggydoll, US Games and Lo Scarabeo make relatively better quality cardstock decks as opposed to Llewellyn and Schiffer. Although, admittedly my collection is small. Schiffer's tend to be glossy. I have a couple US Games and Lo Scarabeo decks and they've been consistent so far. More on the thicker side with less glossy cardstock. Sometimes this makes for a difficult riffle shuffle in the beginning but that is easily overcome with consistent use. I don't have borderless mass produced decks but I can see how what PathWalker says regarding the chipping in borderless decks can be a problem.
gregory Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 Lo Scarabeo are absolutely reliable on stock and their regular mas market ones riffle very well. Their Antiqua range are a different thing - excellent stock but not very riffleable. Schiffer range from really good to truly awful. Llewellyn now seem patchy too - for instance the Animal Totem - mine is OK (not great) but some have had decks that they said were badly cut and creased like paper. US games - I haven't had a bad one yet, but others have.
Decan Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 I will be slightly more restrictive and say that US Games makes decks of good quality 🙂
salamandrina Posted May 27, 2019 Author Posted May 27, 2019 Thanks, this is all very helpful 🙂 I had heard Schiffer did the best colours but I'm no fan of glossy.
Wheel of Fantastic Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 Of the mass market tarot deck publishers I feel US Games and AGM Urania are absolutely the best in terms of card stock quality and quality control. What they both have in common is that their cardstock - while different - does not crease, bend or tear without wilfully trying to do so. The cards should last for years. I don't share the same view with Lo Scarabeo decks. The quality control is not there; I've had misaligned artwork, printing errors and creased cards straight from a sealed pack. Lo Scarabeo customer service is excellent though, when I contacted them about a printing problem on one card, they sent me a replacement card all the way from Italy. Cardstock is O.K. but varies between decks - not as good as the US Games or AGM stock but not bad. Schiffer cardstock is thick and heavily laminated at least for the decks I have. I've had very minor issues with peeling laminate but nothing major. I think the thick cardstock is O.K. in terms of durability and I don't riffle shuffle but your mileage may vary. I don't enjoy the tactile feel of Schiffer cardstock and it does put me off using the decks regularly. Llewellyn cardstock is frankly terrible - too thin or tends to chip. A shame as they publish decks I really like but the cardstock isn't going to stand up to regular use. I don't understand why they put so much effort into elaborate magnetic closure boxes and excellent books but then use cheap, crap cardstock for the actual decks. I avoid Llewellyn decks for the most part for this reason.
ilweran Posted May 27, 2019 Posted May 27, 2019 Never had a problem with Lo Scarabeo decks. US games I've had three where the colours were misaligned, and the reprint of Tarot of the Cat People was awful, overly glossy and sticky lamination, and the caRd images looked like someone had scanned in the original cards and gone overboard with the contrast. This was quite a few years ago, things might have improved.
Raggydoll Posted May 28, 2019 Posted May 28, 2019 I agree that AGM has great cardstock too (completely forgot to mention them)
PageOfCups Posted May 28, 2019 Posted May 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Raggydoll said: I agree that AGM has great cardstock too (completely forgot to mention them) I only own one deck from AGMüller (the Thoth deck) and it is wonderful~ it has this doffy soft finish to it—when I stack them up they slide around like they have a life of their own, which is amusing, and a nice size: (Little off-topic side-story to how I came to own an AGM deck: i know it’s a Swiss-German name instead of German, but I remember wanting “a piece of the Berlin Wall” for some reason because I couldn’t stop thinking of Germany during that era and I insisted on buying this AGMüller version—I was inexplicably obsessed... and then a few days later Helmut Kohl passed.) ETA: sometimes it feels like my AGM Thoth is layered with candle wax (I say that as a good thing). Lovely. 🕯 Llwellyn can be a bit flimsy (but great, if you like to riffle-shuffle). It should be noted that US Games’ stock is different for the “In A Tin” decks (apart from being smaller, they’re thinner/more flexible—not a bad thing if you have small hands). Edited May 28, 2019 by PageOfCups And I love the way my Thoth deck smells~ 📑✨
Raggydoll Posted May 28, 2019 Posted May 28, 2019 I have several AGM decks, mainly because they are pretty common here in Scandinavia. And I have never had any issues with them. They trim nicely too. (What I mean by that is that the edges of certain decks will feel compromised after trimming - mainly the glossy and highly laminated ones. But I have trimmed several high quality decks, such as the ones from US games and AGM, and the edges feels perfect and they shuffle great, even over time).
salamandrina Posted May 28, 2019 Author Posted May 28, 2019 I'm guessing AGM wholesale only in the EU? Or do their cards also turn up in US stores? I like the sound (smell!) of their Thoth deck.
Raggydoll Posted May 28, 2019 Posted May 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, salamandrina said: I'm guessing AGM wholesale only in the EU? Or do their cards also turn up in US stores? I like the sound (smell!) of their Thoth deck. I am pretty sure you can buy at least some of their decks from amazon.com. But I do believe that some titles are harder to get hold of. Hopefully someone from the states will chime in and let us know for certain.
PageOfCups Posted May 28, 2019 Posted May 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, salamandrina said: I'm guessing AGM wholesale only in the EU? Or do their cards also turn up in US stores? I like the sound (smell!) of their Thoth deck. NO! I'm in Indonesia and got my deck from BookDepository.com (free shipping too).
salamandrina Posted May 28, 2019 Author Posted May 28, 2019 Thanks for all this 🙂 I'm looking for a conventional publisher for my deck and thought it'd be good to know what people thought about their products. I really appreciate all your input. I'm guessing AGM mostly have European licenses for things, while US Games are more international.
Esk Posted May 28, 2019 Posted May 28, 2019 My collection is not big but overall I agree with previous comments. I like US Games and Lo scarabeo cardstocks. Llewellyn's cards are thin and may damage more easily but it doesn't bother me so much if I like the deck. What I don't like with Llewellyn is the absence of real box or case to store the deck (I don't do or buy bags and use what comes with the deck). However I'm very disapointed with Schiffer. I hate the glossy aspect and the touch of the cards, and they shuffle less easily. I don't know if they have better colors but the glossy aspect diminish the beauty of the pictures. Actually all that make me think twice before buying a deck from Schiffer.
Raggydoll Posted May 28, 2019 Posted May 28, 2019 3 hours ago, salamandrina said: Thanks for all this 🙂 I'm looking for a conventional publisher for my deck and thought it'd be good to know what people thought about their products. I really appreciate all your input. I'm guessing AGM mostly have European licenses for things, while US Games are more international. How exciting! You may also need to consider the size of your deck, because all the big publishing companies have different standard sizes for cards, borders etc. Even if they work with multiple sizes (like US games and their tin versions) they will still have limitations and specific requirements. But this is rather off topic, so t is something you may want to explore in another thread (perhaps in the Deck Creations area) 🙂
salamandrina Posted May 28, 2019 Author Posted May 28, 2019 Ah well you've simplified matters for me already. There's no way I'd consider a publisher that can't produce quality. It's too easy to DIY these days for that palaver. There does seem to be a very limited number of options for Tarot.
PageOfCups Posted May 28, 2019 Posted May 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Esk said: What I don't like with Llewellyn is the absence of real box or case to store the deck (I don't do or buy bags and use what comes with the deck). They started giving their decks these awesome hard and sturdy magnetic boxes about a year ago, though? They’re pretty nice and you can store them (along with the proper books they come with) like hardcover books in your shelf. It’s pretty cools. I like it a lot, but I am SUPER GUTTED I bought my Steampunk Tarot before they made this change! I got mine when they put them in cartons... Boo.
Wheel of Fantastic Posted May 28, 2019 Posted May 28, 2019 You might want to consider the self- publishing route for your deck. You will be able to control all the variables but it's probably going to be damn hard work.
Esk Posted May 28, 2019 Posted May 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, PageOfCups said: They started giving their decks these awesome hard and sturdy magnetic boxes about a year ago, though? They’re pretty nice and you can store them (along with the proper books they come with) like hardcover books in your shelf. It’s pretty cools Oh good news! Thank you for letting me know :). I bought my Llewellyn's decks few years ago so I haven't seen this change.
DanielJUK Posted May 30, 2019 Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) I would say also that the publishers seem to have trends, one will start using awful thin cardstock and then the next and then one will use way too much plastic over the cards and the next. They do listen to customers (sometimes) so it is worth emailing or contacting them with positive suggestions about how the card stock would be perfect for you! There are some publishers like suggested in the thread that are more reliable than others but some decks can be different to what you are used to. In about 2013/2014 Lo Scarabeo announced on their official Facebook account that due to comments from customers they would start to put less junk (my own interpretation of their statement 🙂 ) on their card pictures, this started with the Ghost tarot from them. So they went minimal when before that put on so much it just distracted from the card image. So one company can be better than another but also they don't always print everything the same, they seem to work in trends and cycles, a whole lot of one style and change to another. You can only know to handle the deck or research reviews of the deck they published before that one can be a good indication. Edited May 30, 2019 by DanielJUK
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