Collector's Advice Thread?

[euripides]

7 hours ago, gregory said:

@archimedeaNO idea about this place, but you never know:

 

https://us.letgo.com/en/i/the-well-worn-path-tarot-card-deck-and-book_13bd57c3-bf5a-4ae6-af7b-8c94f456180b

oh I'll check it out, thanks. There's one on Aussie ebay which may work out similar with exchange and postage. I'm sure others will come up, too; I expect there's been a flurry of interest with Raven Grimassi's passing.

 

I like to use things - I'm not one for collecting mint in wrapper objects of any sort, nor seeing them as an investment. My dear nan collected Wedgewood plates for me and you can't give those things away. But at the same time, I feel like a bit of a steward for some of them, and I've told my kids to make sure someone who knows Tarot rehomes my decks, especially the Blake and Norse.

[reall]

haha! glad we have pro journalist in my team!;)

 

imo as any collection it's thing of *personal preferences,

1) what system do one prefer? Marseli(pips & therefore most rare mean print in small numbers as demand is low so it's more expensive especially if *Original Museum/historic reprint etc/RWS(most popular)/Crowley (thoth considered black sheep but still popular!;)

 

2) topic & artstyle (i.e Everyone love cats but monochrome is less popular!;)

 

3) print quality( cardstock should be at least 300gsm AND linen imo you need to have at least 1 of popular publishers USG/Agm, print on demand; drivethrucards & gamecrafter, & selfpulisher baba studio, etc to compare & get idea why people are crazy over these?!;)

 

All mentioned above affect demand & price & value is formed accordingly but it's also personal how much 1 person can afford to spend on 1 decks mostly depends on income & where you live i.e if you live in 3rd world country & move a lot you wish to keep it small if not & you don't spend much on other things (including luxury ie travel, fashion, plastic surgery etc) I don't see why not buying yourself Tarot deck you like & know you'll be happy to use?;) after All it's mini art gallery where you are purchasing 78 mini painting exhibition of your fav artist so how much would you pay 1 painting?;) Artist also have to eat & pay rent!;) & we got to enjoy that art & have great fun with our deck/collection!;) my is not that big & I collect other things as well but it's awesome hobby when I have time to play with my collection for weekend I spend All day sorting it admiring & comparing art & doing some fun readings etc & forget All b*s in my RL at the moment & it's refreshing way to restore my energy asap!^^ ;D

 

as @gregory say price don't mean nothing to me if deck is not on *my wishlist if yes then there is limit (I hope!;) at how much I would bid & can afford at this point of my life!;D & my *Holy grail would be early edt historic prints but i'm yet to raise to that level!;D

 

& No I don't recommend bootleg (ukraine & lithvania i think?x,x) bc its bad quality just got original deck from artist/publisher or wait for legit copy to show up!x,x ;)

[bookshop]

This thread is great, you guys are so shrewd. 😄

 

And, okay, I keep saying this, but this is why I need a collector's advice thread! I am learning so much! I had NO idea, none, that the Baba decks were made by hand, as it were. That is frankly astonishing. (Can you imagine working on this deck and when someone asks what you're doing, you reply, "I'm making costumes for a Victorian-themed tarot deck so I can take pictures and then combine them with cat heads!" Incredible.)  I feel like everything I've heard about these decks skipped right to the "they're legendary" without explaining why, and to me, as someone who's not a fan of collage decks at all, I just didn't get it in the slightest. Thank you for explaining it, @katrinka!

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3) print quality( cardstock should be at least 300gsm AND linen imo you need to have at least 1 of popular publishers USG/Agm, print on demand; drivethrucards & gamecrafter, & selfpulisher baba studio, etc to compare & get idea why people are crazy over these?!;)

 

Are you saying the deck isn't worth collecting if the cardstock isn't at least 300gsm and linen? That's a bit tricky for me — I don't think I've ever even noticed the cardstock in my life, except that I notice when it's particularly nice to handle or shuffle or touch. The true black cardstock is a luxurious dream, but it's a pain in the ass to shuffle and separate; the sakki-sakki cardstock is very thin but it's smooth and easy to work with and my fave.  I am definitely in dire need of card stock education!

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after All it's mini art gallery where you are purchasing 78 mini painting

 

i agree — I tell people often that I use tarot as a substitute for wall art because hanging wall art in my apartment is very tricky and on most of the walls it's impossible. (That's another reason for @Aldor44's 'why i need new decks' thread, haha!) 

 

 

[reall]

Wall Art point Exactly my idea!;D

 

Card stock IS important IF you plan using your deck & you will notice if it's bad!;D it was Not big deal 50yrs ago when printing was harder & publishing/fiding Tarot deck was miracle by itself but for today Modern decks facts I've mentioned should be standard anything less will feel to thin/bad quality?x.x

just order cheep clow cards from ebay to give you idea what cardstock should Not be like!xD lol

also some LS oracles have supersharp edges!x,x you may got papercut while handling!x.x lol

AND strong chemical/other smell may be turn of as well if you are sensitive about it!^^ 😉

 

eta; & what is worth collecting is completely up to you as it's your collection!;)

but as far as i know less decks printed may mean less decks available for sale so it's why Limited edition prints May be valuable sometime in future when even less of these is left!;D

Edited September 15, 2019 by reall

[Saturn Celeste]

On 9/10/2019 at 3:09 AM, bookshop said:

I sometimes feel like i'm completely clueless when it comes to discerning what decks are valuable and why. For instance, I just apparently lucked out and found a $65 copy of the III Millennium on ebay (a deck I've been kind of obsessed with since @Saturn Celeste suggested it as a good deck for me a while back).

I hope you enjoy it!  Lay each card of the suits out side by side and you'll see background art.  It's a fascinating deck!

 

There are a few things about collecting. 

 

1.  Don't miss paying bills, rent, etc to go and buy a deck instead.

2.  Have a goal in mind.  For me, my goal was to stock my collection with decks that would appeal to clients in a business.  I wanted a diverse collection but easy enough for me to read.  I am not a complex reader so I was careful to choose decks I felt a pull towards.  So you want to really have a gut reaction to a deck and follow it.  But be sensible about the money.

3.  Follow the trends.  See how the pricing goes.  Pre-order decks are good because you get them for money off the release price.  Our friends in Europe are having a change in customs so take that into consideration where your deck is coming from.

4.  Mass Market (Amazon) vs Indie decks.  This is where your finances come into play.  If you want to invest as a collector, follow trends and if you can get a great price on a popular Indie deck, then try to grab it.  Collecting can really suck up your money!  I have no money now and I limit myself to one deck a month but I have 2 decks on pre-order so I won't be working on my saved for later list on amazon.  I buy from Amazon.  I have made some good deals through the years and don't mind mass market decks.  There are some really nice ones out there and besides, I'm at the stage of collecting that I just don't need to buy a ton more of decks.  I did manage to buy a few Indie decks recently though and am so happy I did.

5.  Know yourself and how you read.  Read for yourself or others?  This is a huge factor in what type of decks do you like to read or even look at the artwork.  If you love to study each card at a time in a deck, you'll go through a deck slower than someone who just uses it to read for others.  (Not too much studying each card)  I don't read for myself.  So my decks are purchased with the intention to read others.  So in collecting, I've tried to make sure I have several areas covered for everyone's interests.  I happen to have a few good erotic decks and read with them for others.

6.  Decks are like books.  Decks go through a few stages.  For example the Tarot of the Third Millennium is now really expensive.  I looked back in my history and I paid 

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Order Summary

Item(s) Subtotal:

$8.01

Shipping & Handling:

$3.99

 

Total before tax:

$12.00

Estimated tax to be collected:

$0.00

 

Grand Total:

$12.00

Wow!  Follow a deck and if the price holds good and the deck gets down to 14 left, then you'll want to think about getting the deck.  If Amazon says order soon, more on the way, don't worry about that, they'll come back in stock but if it says order soon, that's it, they will be going out of stock.  First edition decks will always be worth the investment.  Anything after that, much less value so like Katrinka said,

On 9/10/2019 at 9:34 PM, katrinka said:

But most of us keep our decks, barring medical emergencies, looming homelessness or something of that nature.

This is what it's all about.  I love everyone of my decks and don't want to sell them.  I just need to be careful about not buying too much at one time and I'll be just fine and the closer I'll get to 300.  I need to do an inventory. 😉

[katrinka]

3 hours ago, bookshop said:

This thread is great, you guys are so shrewd. 😄

 

And, okay, I keep saying this, but this is why I need a collector's advice thread! I am learning so much! I had NO idea, none, that the Baba decks were made by hand, as it were. That is frankly astonishing. (Can you imagine working on this deck and when someone asks what you're doing, you reply, "I'm making costumes for a Victorian-themed tarot deck so I can take pictures and then combine them with cat heads!" Incredible.)  I feel like everything I've heard about these decks skipped right to the "they're legendary" without explaining why, and to me, as someone who's not a fan of collage decks at all, I just didn't get it in the slightest. Thank you for explaining it, @katrinka!

My pleasure. 🙂 And I'm sure that Karen could deliver the line "I'm making costumes for a Victorian-themed tarot deck so I can take pictures and then combine them with cat heads!" (well, actually Baroque-themed) with aplomb.
She's probably done it more than a time or two. 😉
Not every deck features all those tiny handmade objects, though. But Karen and Alex lived in Prague for years before moving to Ireland, and you can see some strange and wonderful sights in decks like the Tarot of Prague and the Bohemian Gothic. They trekked around and photographed everything. You'll see a bit of the Bone Chapel in the Bohemian Gothic, for instance. Here's Joseph Sheridan Le Fanu's Carmilla posing with a bit of ossuary art:

 

(Come to think of it, they probably DID make that outfit she's wearing.)

It's a great deck, full of literary references like this one, as well as references to films like The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari  and Nosferatu.

And yes, there are some Baba decks made up of pre-existing art, like the Victorian Romantic. For that one, they collected as many books as they could find that contained high quality (and too often ignored) engravings from the late 19th century. And from near-uncountable numbers of images, finding the ones that best expressed the card essences. And there was a lot of editing. Some of the cards are taken from a combination of multiple engravings, but it's seamless - you can't just thumb through the deck and spot them.

So the process isn't always the same - but no matter what the process is, there's always a ton of work that has to be done.
I'm looking forward to the upcoming decks. I suspect Killarney is as weird and wonderful as Prague.

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Are you saying the deck isn't worth collecting if the cardstock isn't at least 300gsm and linen? That's a bit tricky for me — I don't think I've ever even noticed the cardstock in my life, except that I notice when it's particularly nice to handle or shuffle or touch. The true black cardstock is a luxurious dream, but it's a pain in the ass to shuffle and separate; the sakki-sakki cardstock is very thin but it's smooth and easy to work with and my fave.  I am definitely in dire need of card stock education!

It doesn't have to be linen. I do strongly prefer linen for everyday, workhorse decks. It's got that air cushiony feel, and you can riffle it endlessly.

But the "special occasion" decks are generally smooth. The Babas already mentioned (I'm not sure how - or if - cold stamping would work on linen.) Their stock isn't particularly heavy, it's a high quality playing card stock with a carbon core that prevents bending and creasing. The cards are lightly varnished, never plastic-y. Yes, they can be riffled and they stand up to use. But people tend to be more careful with them.

Yves uses stiffer, heavier stock. https://www.tarot-de-marseille-heritage.com/english/index.html

Both Giordiano Berti and Il Meneghello use old fashioned, uncoated stock. It can't be riffled, but it feels lovely in the hands.

And there are others. But the general rule is something along the lines of "if it feels cheap and crappy, it probably is."

Edited September 16, 2019 by katrinka

[PathWalker]

Whilst I agree with the technical details and artistry about BABA decks - or others for that matter - the point is that doesn't make them 'must haves' in YOUR collection if you don't like them!

There are many different ways to choose to collect - but at the heart of it surely is that you like what you collect, not that you got talked into anything by the hype that other folks created?  It's so easy to do, and you'd end with a huge and expensive pile of stuff that doesn't make your heart glad, and frankly is very dodgy if you thought you'd realise a profit.

 

 

[katrinka]

13 hours ago, PathWalker said:

Whilst I agree with the technical details and artistry about BABA decks - or others for that matter - the point is that doesn't make them 'must haves' in YOUR collection if you don't like them!

Of course not.
I wasn't saying that anything is "must have". I was explaining the justification for the pricing.
Of course, in the unlikely event that you find a Greenwood Tarot going for 50 cents at a yard sale, I'd suggest snapping it up even if you don't like the Greenwood.
But for the most part, get what you like. A lot of the decks with the big markups on ebay started out as cheap, mass produced decks from USG and similar.

[Raggydoll]

8 hours ago, katrinka said:

Of course not.
I wasn't saying that anything is "must have". I was explaining the justification for the pricing.
Of course, in the unlikely event that you find a Greenwood Tarot going for 50 cents at a yard sale, I'd suggest snapping it up even if you don't like the Greenwood.
But for the most part, get what you like. A lot of the decks with the big markups on ebay started out as cheap, mass produced decks from USG and similar.

This. People seem to constantly forget why decks go out of print. It’s not that the publishers want to limit how many fabulous creations that we can get hold of - it’s generally because they didn’t sell good enough to justify further production. People take stuff for granted and only begin to covet them when they are no longer available for purchase.

 

(I do understand that sometimes we simply miss a deck when it’s in production and only discover it later, but I still don’t get the hysteria because there are simply SO many great decks being created all the time now. So hardly no need to despair if you couldn’t get one of them). 

[bookshop]

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People take stuff for granted and only begin to covet them when they are no longer available for purchase.

I feel like a lot of this is because of Instagram. I can't tell you how many times I've bypassed a deck because it didn't interest me in the Kickstarter phase, only for it to wind up in dozens of carefully filtered Instagram posts with sumptuous lighting surrounded by twigs and lit candles or something, looking like the greatest thing I've ever seen, haha. And sometimes I fall instantly in love with a tarot deck on Instagram only to realize after a little googling for the whole deck that it's not what i want at all. But I think the added impact of seeing all these decks in the wild makes them much easier to fall for after the fact.