EmpressKamaria Posted October 9, 2019 Posted October 9, 2019 As Tarot Readers, have you noticed the baby under the queens throne in the "Queen of Cups"- Rider Waite Deck. "I am curious for the ones who are drawn to the baby what does it signify for you? For me I see the queen of cups as considering all of her bottled up emotions and is preparing to send a message in a bottle. I see the queen as trying to free her self, her mind, her emotions. I see her as being at the end of her ropes, i see this card as being suicidal and writing a suicide note. On one hand she can use all the energy she mustard into her cup to control the waves she sits in front of or she can allow the energy of her emotions to run free and the emotions/ waves to devour her and the child. Overall i see this card as one being deranged and on the verge of losing her mind. I see her as wanting to protect the baby/ future, hide a pregnancy/future knowledge or she is preparing to commit a double suicide" It kinda reminds me of Pandora box. My main concern is what does the baby inside the throne signify? What is your perspective on this card? p.s When doing readings I stay away from this perspective because i just recently noticed the baby and I have been pondering what it said to me.
joy Posted October 9, 2019 Posted October 9, 2019 Hello @EmpressKamaria welcome to the TT&M Family This thread is in the wrong section, I will move it to 'Talking Tarot'.
Grizabella Posted October 9, 2019 Posted October 9, 2019 I've noticed it there before but since I don't use the RWS deck most of the time anymore, I'd kind of forgotten about it. At any rate, I've always just felt like it's part of the throne she sits on because Cups are a watery, emotional suit and this queen is a woman, which would associate her with motherhood deep emotion and nurturing. I'd not have associated it with suicide at all. The Queen of Cups can be somewhat overly emotional or delusional if the card is reversed, I think, so maybe a reversed meaning could include suicide, but that doesn't spring to my mind first when I think of the Queen of Cups. All readers read in their own style, though, so since this is what the card says to you, then that's going to be part of how you view what the cards are saying and if it's meaningful for you in readings then go with it. I do think it would be more likely as a reversed meaning, though, to see it as a suicide.
Charlie Brown Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 Is it a baby or is it a cherub/putto type angel? It looks like the latter to me.
EmpressKamaria Posted October 10, 2019 Author Posted October 10, 2019 Thanks for you guys perspective. And Charlie Brown, you may be just right. Lol I have so many mixed emotions about that card.
EmpressKamaria Posted October 10, 2019 Author Posted October 10, 2019 Thanks for you guys perspective. And Charlie Brown, you may be just right. Lol I have so many mixed emotions about that card.
EmpressKamaria Posted October 10, 2019 Author Posted October 10, 2019 Thank you Joy, I kinda figured I did, with me being new, I wasn't sure how to switch it. It is a pleasure to be here, thank you for this wonderful community and your assistance.
DanielJUK Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 I'm very Queen of Cups as a person so maybe I am a little biased about it 🙂 The King of each suit has complete control of their suit and the Queen is the next card down, I really don't see as the suicidal / freeing / bottling of emotions idea in your first post Empress because she has mastered the suit with feminine power. She has control of her creativity, emotions and intuition by becoming this Queen. I think Pages and Knights of Cups are much more worrying as out of control emotions and also if you read reversals then the reversed Queen is out of her control with emotions, maybe bitter, maybe heavily drinking, they cannot deal with emotions. The reversed cards and / or the early Cups family are also a risk of taking drugs / drinking to avoid feeling emotions. But upright she is stable and in control. I intuitively read and think it's really important that what you see might have a special meaning to you if you saw this when reading for yourself, maybe it's a message. So what you see and work out is important. I'm just giving my perspective of it and all of the Court Cards that sit on thrones are the same design in RWS, they are stone thrones and they have decoration carved into the stone that match the person and their attributes. So when I look at it, I think it's a stone panel with a cherub on, rather than a baby left under it. You made me think a lot today about this card so I decided to have a read in a few reference books and look online about ideas for the symbols of her throne. They are supposed to be sea nymphs or Nereids and they were helpful daughters in Greek mythology who were spirits who lived in the sea and who were followers of Poseidon. Everything on the throne is water related, nymphs, fish and scallop shells. In the Greek stories they helped sailors and helped the Argonauts in their journey searching for the Golden Fleece. In modern day Greek Nereids also covers Fairies and Mermaids as well as Nymphs as a meaning. Also one of the Moons of Neptune is called Nereid to link to it all. The Nereids were supposed to represent everything that was beautiful and kind about the sea, you can see them carved into stone in places still today. The sea represents emotions and the unconscious, often in dreams it is significant, like people drowning or out of their depth. Her throne has symbols linking to the sea but she sits calm and posed on that throne and looks into the Cup, so she is not worried about the sea or emotions / the unconscious, she is in control of this, it is what she has mastered. The Nymphs represent she is not alone, she has help or followers perhaps. But also perhaps her maternal / family side, nurturing and looking after people around her. She is emotionally secure, that is her mastering the suit and she passes it on to others by looking after them, maybe just by listening or being compassionate. Her super hero skill is that her intuition knows what someone is feeling, she can emphasise on their level and I think this represents that. But like I say, how you see a card for yourself is important, this could be a message in a reading for you (who who you read for). This Queen is great with emotions and the unconscious and feelings but her negative perhaps if she is all heart but doesn't think with her head, she is the opposite of the Queen of Swords. Her head might be stuck in dreams but she needs to be more rational and logical 🤣 I can totally relate to this! 🙂
Guest libra Posted October 10, 2019 Posted October 10, 2019 For me, I think this is a great example of the way I see an intuitive read that can be balanced out with a look at the historical meanings. The card is acting like a Rorschach Test - what you see in it is a reflection of your psyche and should be taken as such. This means that you reading the Queen of Cups as being overwhelmed by her emotions, at the end of her rope, suicidal even, is not and can not be a wrong interpretation - it is right, for you, showing something within yourself that needs to be seen and acknowledged. I'll often take that type of meaning as information about myself, than look at the traditional meanings as a step towards reconciliation. I'll turn things into a sentence, using "and" to allow both my truth and the truth of the traditional to have space - "I see this Queen as overwhelmed by her emotions, and yet, she is the true ruler of the emotional self in tarot." for example. I rarely work with the actual RWS so I've not noticed that baby before! For me, what comes up is the idea of the inner child, and reparenting yourself. The lil merbabies are at the top of her throne as well, have you noticed that? I'm almost inclined to see this as a sign that she has done a lot of healing in the inner child area, and the one underneath all boxed in the throne is like... The work that is still to be done, an area where she still needs to do that reparenting work. It becomes a sign that the work is never done in that process, but not in a negative way, but as a sign that the Queen carries the strength and persistence and drive to always dig deeper and heal further.
Grizabella Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 There's a baby or cherub on the Queen of Swords and Queen of Pentacles thrones, too. Not on the Queen of Wands, though.
Eric13 Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Oh boy. No, I dont see anything suicidal in the picture of the card of The Queen of Cups holding the Grail. Or a metaphor for the Grail. And the baby on the side of her throne could very well represent Cupid. I only see embracing life and freedom in the entire RWS deck.
EmpressKamaria Posted October 14, 2019 Author Posted October 14, 2019 I agree with all you guys usually I read from a traditional, historical, astrological spiritual and intuitive stand point. One day I had the bright idea to combine the human psyche perspective. Like what if in real life I see a woman sitting at the edge of the ocean (body of water) with a cup, grail, bottle etc and a baby under her chair as if locked in, so I combined my human knowledge into the card. Now I know the moon control the tides, I know about the message in the bottle, I know what it looks like to be dazed and/or focused, and I know that humans( the baby) are usually not isolated when near water. So it hit me and I combined all my knowledge and came to the conclusion, this woman is losing her mind, having some very strange thoughts. She is fully aware of her power, and maybe wants to see if she has the power to act as the moon, I saw the cup/ grail as the high priestess. So to me under this perspective she is curious to test her powers. In my head only one of two things can happen under this stance, 1 she has full power to control the tides, 2 She don’t have power to control the tides and her, the baby, the cup/grail/ bottle gets swept away and everything winds up erased. Let me also note that I saw the cup as pandora box as this queen got her hands on sacred knowledge and wants to be as emotionally strong and powerful as the moon but is she, I guess the supporting cards will determine that. Ok so now what I’m going to do is look at it from the standpoint that the baby is not a baby at all. And see what I get. To be tuned - I don’t know why I am so drawn to this card, but it always peeked my interest as to what could she possibly be thinking and what energy knowledge is in that grail/cup and what’s up with the kid. Omg I never noticed the baby on the queen of swords. This shall be fun.
AeonHorus Posted January 18, 2020 Posted January 18, 2020 Yeah I've noticed it but I wouldn't say it was a baby, it looks more to me like a Cherub holding a fish, so a water Cherub I would be inclined to say. The Queen of Cups is everyone's Confidente who is full of nothing but Compassion on the flipside she can quite easily play the Victim and offer you the challenge of depression. To quote The Occult World "Purpose of the Cherubim In other lore, the Cherubim are the voice of divine wisdom, possessing a deep insight into God' secrets. They enlighten the lower levels of angels. They emanate holiness through the universe in order to ensure the success of universal truths. They personify the winds". As for "suicide" I have no idea where that concept could come from lol AeonHorus
Marigold Posted January 18, 2020 Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) Arthur Waite was of Christian influence. He even wrote a book called The Path in Christian Mysticism. That baby is holding a fish so it would probably have some reference to Jesus (symbol of Jesus). Fisher of men and all. Also the Cup she is holding has a Christian cross on the top. The Cup by its form is maybe a bit influenced by the Tarot of Marseilles Cup which however does NOT have a cross on the top and therefore not to be confused. Someone once (a freemason) called him “one of the truly great Christian mystics.” Edited January 18, 2020 by Marigold
Andy Posted January 18, 2020 Posted January 18, 2020 On 10/9/2019 at 2:03 PM, EmpressKamaria said: As Tarot Readers, have you noticed the baby under the queens throne in the "Queen of Cups"- Rider Waite Deck. "I am curious for the ones who are drawn to the baby what does it signify for you? For me I see the queen of cups as considering all of her bottled up emotions and is preparing to send a message in a bottle. I see the queen as trying to free her self, her mind, her emotions. I see her as being at the end of her ropes, i see this card as being suicidal and writing a suicide note. On one hand she can use all the energy she mustard into her cup to control the waves she sits in front of or she can allow the energy of her emotions to run free and the emotions/ waves to devour her and the child. Overall i see this card as one being deranged and on the verge of losing her mind. I see her as wanting to protect the baby/ future, hide a pregnancy/future knowledge or she is preparing to commit a double suicide" It kinda reminds me of Pandora box. My main concern is what does the baby inside the throne signify? What is your perspective on this card? p.s When doing readings I stay away from this perspective because i just recently noticed the baby and I have been pondering what it said to me. For me personally, the baby on the throne signifies the nurturing, motherly nature of the Queen. 😊
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