Curiosity

[Nadia]

Hello,

It's very hard to learn Lemonard? Do you find more accurate than the other tarot decks? 

It's a curiosity, because I love the design and the spreads, but don't know nothing about that 🙂

[Decan]

Well, "more accurate" I don't know, I would say "more predictive" instead.

It isn't hard to learn, but it's like everything it takes time and practice. Otherwise don't begin with a Grand Tableau but a line of 3 cards!

With Lenormand we don't project our imaginary in the images (we tend to do that with the Tarot); here it's more a language and we read the cards more from the assigned meanings of the cards.

It's to try!

[katrinka]

I wouldn't say it was hard. You do have to invest some years, though - it's essentially learning a language.
I find it to be very accurate, but it takes work to get there. 😉

[Flaxen]

I agree with @Decan. Lenormand focuses on a more predictive, down-to-earth reading than is common in tarot nowadays. 

Tarot is in a more psychological/self-help Phase with many readers while Lenormand is more what people would think of as ‘Fortune telling’. 

It has its own techniques though which you need to learn but 3 cards are enough to get you going. 

[katrinka]

6 hours ago, Flaxen said:

I agree with @Decan. Lenormand focuses on a more predictive, down-to-earth reading than is common in tarot nowadays. 

Tarot is in a more psychological/self-help Phase with many readers while Lenormand is more what people would think of as ‘Fortune telling’. 

Exactly.
It's possible to read Tarot cartomantically, but the psychological/self help readers far outnumber the cartomantes. So much so, that when Caitlin Matthews published Untold Tarot, somebody on facebook commented that she was "reading it like Lenormand!" The psych/self help readings are a relatively recent phenomenon and they dominate the scene to the extent that the fortunetelling methods have been almost obscured. A lot of contemporary Tarot readers will still predict, but it's generally mixed with the new age stuff.

Lenormand, Kippers, Sibilla, Belline, etc. are good for getting your cartomantic groove back. You get practice with things like combining cards, and sticking your neck out and saying something will or won't happen. I think it improves your reading skills across the board: Tarot, runes, whatever else you're using.
 

Quote

It has its own techniques though which you need to learn but 3 cards are enough to get you going. 

A 3 card line is a very fast, clear way of getting an answer. I've been reading Lenormand since 2002 or so and I still use LOTS of 3 card draws. I can do tableaus, boxes, longer lines, etc., but don't find them necessary for common questions like "Where are my keys?" or "Will I soon hear from so-and-so?" All hail the line of 3! 🙂

I would recommend anyone starting out begin by learning the card meanings - but don't collect meanings from every source you can find, as it will muddy your readings. There are some variations of style that don't work well together. And TONS of bad info. Get one good book or course and stick with that until you've internalized it. Andy Boroveshengra and Rana George both have exceptionally good books, but I don't suggest trying to learn from both at once. Pick one.

Or you can download the Treppner course here for free. https://www.spirisfeed.com/downloads/
It's extremely basic, and not without issues, but it's enough to get started with. And Treppner along with a cheap deck is good for test driving the system to see if you like it, without a big cash outlay.

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by katrinka

[Guest]

More accurate is not a term that I would utilise, personally.  
 

The Lenormand Oracle was relatively unknown among Anglo-Saxons readers until 2007-201. Consequently, there was no preconceptions and it was accepted as it was presented: that is as an antithesis for tarot and some lost cartomantic tradition.  However, the  Lenormand is just a set of pip cards found in the tarot. The Lenormand is no more mundane than the tarot and the tradition is de rigueur elsewhere.  I read tarot as I do Lenormand and the Belline. 
 

It is no harder than the tarot to learn.  The biggest hurdle I have with students is getting past certain doctrine or practices (that a card is on a card if it’s in a house, et cetera).

 

I’ll throw a spanner in works and encourage you to start with the GT early on. It’s easier to understand the cards that way.

 

[Guest]

On 11/3/2019 at 12:03 PM, Flaxen said:

Tarot is in a more psychological/self-help Phase with many readers while Lenormand is more what people would think of as ‘Fortune telling’. 

Would you say that Lenormand cannot also be used as a tool to gain useful messages for further exploration and consideration in my life? 

[katrinka]

A prediction arguably IS a "useful message for further exploration and consideration."

[gregory]

But does have a nasty habit of leading to "oh well, if that's going to happen I might as well not bother." Many sitters take a prediction as set in stone. That's why I am always "IF you do this then this WILL PROBABLY...."

[katrinka]

That's on them. Their decision.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, gregory said:

But does have a nasty habit of leading to "oh well, if that's going to happen I might as well not bother." Many sitters take a prediction as set in stone. That's why I am always "IF you do this then this WILL PROBABLY...."

That is it. I feel that oftentimes people discredit those messages for further considerations as some thing related to the self-help area (which is) in a disdainful way. As if the fortune-telling was something superior, maybe because of the hodge-podge of new-ageanism in Tarot interpretations. Divination happens whenever we try to seek out answers that seem not available by logic alone: cards, stones, sticks, dice come as instruments to help us to bring some clarity to the matter at hand. And this matter, in my humble opinion, is not set in stone. With information, we can deliberate it better and, if not totally able to change its course, maybe mitigate it or be better prepare for it. 

[gregory]

5 hours ago, katrinka said:

That's on them. Their decision.

 

It is - but it then leads to them coming back and saying "but you said...." and discrediting tarot. Because when you predict, you (the cards, the tarot gods...) have to assume that they will continue the way they have been behaving. So "Will I pass my exams". Yes, say the cards. So the sitter thinks GREAT, sorted - I can start partying - and as a result of changing their behaviour based on trusting the prediction as set in stone, they fail.

 

2 hours ago, fabfranco said:

That is it. I feel that oftentimes people discredit those messages for further considerations as some thing related to the self-help area (which is) in a disdainful way. As if the fortune-telling was something superior, maybe because of the hodge-podge of new-ageanism in Tarot interpretations. Divination happens whenever we try to seek out answers that seem not available by logic alone: cards, stones, sticks, dice come as instruments to help us to bring some clarity to the matter at hand. And this matter, in my humble opinion, is not set in stone. With information, we can deliberate it better and, if not totally able to change its course, maybe mitigate it or be better prepare for it. 

 

This exactly. The "reverse" example from AT ages ago - the worried mother who asked if her daughter would pass and was told NOT A CHANCE. The daughter was horrified, buckled down and passed.

 

My reading - in both cases - would have included a rider: "yes, if you carry on working this way," or "No, not if you don't start to put the work in." Which technically moves away from prediction and towards advice.

[katrinka]

On 4/22/2021 at 9:36 AM, gregory said:

It is - but it then leads to them coming back and saying "but you said...." and discrediting tarot. Because when you predict, you (the cards, the tarot gods...) have to assume that they will continue the way they have been behaving. So "Will I pass my exams". Yes, say the cards. So the sitter thinks GREAT, sorted - I can start partying - and as a result of changing their behaviour based on trusting the prediction as set in stone, they fail.

 

There was a case I read about once where, IIRC, a woman tried to sue a card reader because the reader predicted that the woman's husband would survive cancer. The woman stopped all treatments and he died. The judge threw it out because the doctor obviously would have been the one to ask before stopping treatments, not a card reader.

I prefer to treat clients as functioning adults. If they choose to behave like ringtailed idiots, that's not my problem. I'm there to lay out the cards and translate what's on the table. 

It's the same thing as if someone asks directions to the post office: you just tell them, without explaining that they need to look both ways before they cross the street. To do otherwise is patronizing.
 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by katrinka

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, katrinka said:

I prefer to treat clients as functioning adults. If they choose to behave like ringtailed idiots, that's not my problem. I'm there to lay out the cards and translate what's on the table. 

It's the same thing as if someone asks directions to the post office: you just tell them, without explaining that they need to look both ways before they cross the street. To do otherwise is patronizing.

This. We call it as we see it. Once that goes, our neutrality goes, too. In addition, it opens a can of worms as to which querent can have it neat and which requires a spoonful of sugar. 
 

On 4/22/2021 at 2:26 AM, fabfranco said:

Would you say that Lenormand cannot also be used as a tool to gain useful messages for further exploration and consideration in my life? 

The Petit Lenormand can do all the tarot can. Any limitations are those applied by the reader, either through their own bias or access (to the deck). 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, timtoldrum said:

The Petit Lenormand can do all the tarot can. Any limitations are those applied by the reader, either through their own bias or access (to the deck). 

This!!!

[DownUnderNZer]

 

I have said for years that the Lenormand can go into areas people didn't think possible and am obviously not the only one. 

 

Once you know the basics or core meanings and have used the cards for a wee while the next step is  to explore and go beyond that - there are truly no boundaries.

 

 

DND 🌞

[Guest]

8 hours ago, fabfranco said:

This!!!

Just how I see it. As a child, I thought the cards twee and simple but I was soon shown the error of my mind. 
 

I cannot foresee ever not using the tarot; however it is used primarily at client request or with one’s tarot students. For personal use, tarot is used quite sparingly. But I use the Petit Lenormand for fortune telling, divination, praxis, folk magick and so on.  
 

It is also important to recognise tarot and the Petit Lenormand are closer tied that some realise.