Alternatives to RWS, Thoth, etc.?

[geoxena]

I wonder if this is an impossible-to-answer question.  Which decks are NOT based on RWS, Thoth, Astrology, Kabbalah, nor any religion, yet have more than just pip cards for the minors?

[fire cat pickles]

The first one that comes to mind is the Enochian Tarot:

http://www.learntarot.com/ehdesc.htm

 

 

[geoxena]

1 hour ago, fire cat pickles said:

The first one that comes to mind is the Enochian Tarot:

http://www.learntarot.com/ehdesc.htm

 

 

Thank you, but from the description at the link you provided, it seems pretty religious to me - angels, demons, "heavenly regions," etc.  I'm interested in strictly secular decks, if any exist.

[xTheHermitx]

what about this deck: The Wilderwoven Deck

 

 

I have ordered this deck, and am waiting for it's arrival. I don't think it has any religious overtones...

 

[katrinka]

10 hours ago, geoxena said:

I wonder if this is an impossible-to-answer question.  Which decks are NOT based on RWS, Thoth, Astrology, Kabbalah, nor any religion, yet have more than just pip cards for the minors?

It's not impossible to answer at all.
Are you talking about Tarot? Here is a different Tarot system https://fennario.wordpress.com/2019/04/12/vamp-the-theda-bara-tarot-from-jook-art/

 Or, alternately, there are Sibilla-type decks (Lenormand, Petit Oracle des Dames https://fennario.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/le-petit-oracle-des-dames/, LaVera Sibilla, etc.) and straight-up fortunetelling decks like Biedermeier Aufschlagkarten. the Little Czech Oracle deck https://fennario.wordpress.com/2012/07/05/bohemian-rhapsody-the-little-czech-oracle-deck/, and Kipperkarten https://fennario.wordpress.com/2013/03/23/a-traditional-kipperkarten-primer/. While some of these decks may have cards depicting things like crosses, priests, etc., they stand in for things like burdens and somberness, and require no reverence on our part.

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by katrinka

[gregory]

Greenwood.

[reall]

if you are talking about alternative/original approach to Tarot my top 2 are

Transurfing Tarot by Vadim Zeland http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/reality-transurfing-tarot/

& Osho Zen Tarot; http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/osho-zen/

I ought to know more artzy tarot where artists completely disregarded tradition & go with their own intuition & will post if i remember!;D

Edited February 12, 2020 by reall

[Eric13]

There's also good old fashioned playing cards.

[53rdspirit]

The Playing Card Oracle by Ana Cortez may fit the bill. I'm currently learning that system myself. Take a look @ https://anacortez.com/ --and, you can create your own oracle, too --there's always that option.

Edited February 12, 2020 by 53rdspirit

[Rose Lalonde]

The Science Tarot  - meanings are still similar to the ones in RWS, though, so that may disqualify it.

 

IF you're ok with shamanism, then the Primordial Tarot (originally published as Tarot of the Origins).  Early man, prehistoric. Not like RWS meanings in many cards - for example the card that corresponds to the 9 of Cups is about sacrifice and understanding necessity. 

[reall]

just remembered to add Tarot of the Nine Paths

& Cosmos Tarot & Oracle Deck: Second Edition; https://lightgreyartlab.myshopify.com/products/cosmos-tarot-oracle-deck-second-edition

[DanielJUK]

I would add Wild Unknown Tarot, it's debatable if it's RWS based or not, I just searched google about it and some posts said it was RWS based, some said Marseille Based and other posts that it's unique. But it is very different to RWS. There are no humans in any of the cards, so it's inclusive of everyone. The Court cards are animals, eg Cups suit are all Swans, Wands Snakes, Swords Owls and Pentacles Deer and all the other cards (and there is full minors) are animals, trees, plants, and insects. I took a long time to buy it, the minimalism really challenged me and quite simple art but actually now it's my fave intuitive reading deck. The fascinating thing is the optical illusions, you can see different things in many of the cards depending on your perspective. It doesn't have religion or systems apart from animal associations (but you can make your own ideas about them).

[geoxena]

I'm liking some of the suggestions, though I haven't had a chance yet to check them all out.  The Vamp deck really appeals to me, but wow, it's pricey.  My luck, by the time I can afford it, it'll be OOP.  Thank you, everyone, but feel free to keep adding more if you think of any.

 

@DanielJUK, I have the Wild Unknown and like it very much, although I recall that some of the cards were too much like RWS (can't think which ones right now).  But I can read with the deck anyway and it's one of my faves out of my teensy-weensy collection.

 

.

Edited February 14, 2020 by geoxena

[Papageno]

Black Lilly Tarot by Aya Rosen

 

Black Lilly Tarot Artist Website

 

Also available at:

 

GameCrafter

 

More picture:

 

Black Lilly Tarot additional Pictures

 

The imagery is RWS based, however, it is powerfully imbued with Female energy, which you might find appealing.

Although the active components are basically RWS, I think the artistry is presented in such a way that it almost transcends most typical RWS narratives.

It's an absolutely gorgeous deck BTW. 

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, geoxena said:

The Vamp deck really appeals to me, but wow, it's pricey.  My luck, by the time I can afford it, it'll be OOP.

Yes, and the price is certainly  consideration. You do get a handmade box and instructions, the quality is superb, and it's a wonderfully readable deck. I just looked at it like this: I could get the Vamp, or I could get two or three mass produced decks that I wouldn't LOVE. (And if I hadn't hit it off with the Vamp, I could flip it at a profit - but I have no desire to do that.) Quality vs. quantity.

Try messaging Steve - he's a nice guy, and he might hold a deck for you if you're really interested. It never hurts to ask. 😉

[geoxena]

I have another question, which is related to my OP.  Is there a good online resource that lists/explains pre-Golden Dawn meanings of the minor arcana?  I have a copy of the Tarot of the Master and love it, but don't trust the keywords that were added to the cards by Lo Scarabeo.

[Raggydoll]

4 hours ago, geoxena said:

I have another question, which is related to my OP.  Is there a good online resource that lists/explains pre-Golden Dawn meanings of the minor arcana?  I have a copy of the Tarot of the Master and love it, but don't trust the keywords that were added to the cards by Lo Scarabeo.

It sort of depends what type of tarot decks you mean? For tdM you can look at our separate tdM forum. There are also some resources for traditional playing card meanings and those can be used for non-scenic minors too. Scroll through this thread for lots of ideas and resources:

 

 

Here is one link for Etteilla 

 

https://divinationandfortunetelling.com/articles/2017/4/29/etteilla-tarot-reading-tips

 

Scroll down to find link to meanings for the minors.  

[Decan]

On 2/12/2020 at 1:47 AM, geoxena said:

I wonder if this is an impossible-to-answer question.  Which decks are NOT based on RWS, Thoth, Astrology, Kabbalah, nor any religion, yet have more than just pip cards for the minors?

For me Tarot means 22 majors and 56 minors, so this will refer either to the TdM or to the RWS (I don't know much the Thoth). I don't think the Etteilla Tarot is a secular deck (I remember about cards which depict a monk and a priest in it, and the minors also show astrological symbols of the planets).

 

Well, considering what you want I would say more a modern oracle based on everyday life only, or nature, animals.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Decan

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Decan said:

For me Tarot means 22 majors and 56 minors, so this will refer either to the TdM or to the RWS (I don't know much the Thoth). I don't think the Etteilla Tarot is a secular deck (I remember about cards which depict a monk and a priest in it, and the minors also show astrological symbols of the planets).

 

Well, considering what you want I would say more a modern oracle based on everyday life only, or nature, animals.

No, you’re right there Decan. Etteilla is not what I would describe as secular — and it is rather involved. The meanings on the cards are but one part. And on some editions wrong. 
 

I’m not too sure of a deck without pip cards. The Elemental Tarot might be  a fit. The trumps are associated with planets on either the ascendant or midheaven but it’s not intrusive or overdone.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Guest