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Hey Kipper karten lovers! I found this website that's on the wayback machine. It covers skat cards and Kipper cards, so I thought I'd share the links to the Kipper parts here for others that want to learn. The site is in German so does need Google translate (chrome is great for this): Kipper card meanings Making combinations Grand Tableau Enjoy 😁
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From the album: Cartomancy Decks
Artist - Lucas Lua de Souza Author - Alexandre Musruck Publisher - Éditions Dervy First Published - 2022 ISBN - 9791024206417 Card Size - 2.36 x 3.54 in (6.3 x 9.5 cm) Weight - 0.94 lbs Box - cardboard (2 pieces) Language - French Purchase here - https://www.amazon.ca/-/fr/LOracle-Kipper-Alexandre-Musruck/dp/B098L4KTC1/ Details - The deck contains the 36 traditional Kipper cards with a Parisian style. The box set includes a guidebook of 320 pages. You can also buy the deck separately (ISBN 9780764359002). -
A Short Review of The Card Geek's Guide to Kipper Cards by Toni Puhle
RunningWild posted a topic in Kipper
A warning: I am 100% new to the Kipper cards. I am also the proud owner of two Kipper decks: Fin de Siecle Kipper by Ciro Marchetti and the Rainbow Kipper by Toni Puhle and Steven Bright. I bought the Rainbow Kipper so I could better follow along with the Card Geek's Guide to Kipper Cards. Ciro Marchetti changed too many things in his deck for a newcomer like me to be able to use right away. And forget the hullabaloo about the so-called "Bavarian Method". It isn't important even though Puhle mentions it a few times in the book. I believe the term is used mostly to explain that Bavaria is where she learned the kipper cards so there may be other regional traditions but we have hers with which to work. Katrinka's first impression is a good overview. You may want to read that before you read this. The book does a good job of explaining the function of each card. The cards are broken down into different types of cards: People cards, for example, Main Person 1 & 2 Stop cards which, in general, indicate the place where a line of reading simply stops. There is nothing after that. Movement cards indicate the direction of the reading for that particular line. Connector cards show the relationships between people and events Cause & Effect cards On top of that, direction in Kipper is important. Which way MP1/MP2 and other people cards are facing determines the direction of the reading and what is important and what causes the events in the querents life and what may happen in the future. I believe in that regard it is somewhat similar to a Lenormand Grand Tableau. Each card is covered by a few pages of explanation. Puhle has further broken things down to ease learning. The following areas are covered for each card: Person - Who the card could be Core meaning Auspicious - Placement ahead of the Main Character Inauspicious - Placement behind the Main Character Type of card - Connector/Stop/Movement/Cause & Effect/ Direction Keywords Tradition - Early instructions translated into English What the card means to Puhle Significator - How to use the card as a focus The author also interprets each card as it applies to these areas: love, work, tech, health, practical, finding lost objects, character descriptions, locations, daily meaning, and timing. (parts excerpted from The Card Geek's Guide to Kipper Cards by Toni Puhle 2017) Toni Puhle has essentially explained each card fully and while I don't think it requires rote memorization, it helps to show the reader card interactions until reading the cards becomes second nature. *Just a note before I go: I've seen some balk at the price of the book (somewhere around $25 USD). I was looking for the publisher and couldn't find one. I've come to the conclusion that this may be a self-published or a publish-on-demand book and that's why its cost is a bit more dear. The Card Geek's Guide to Kipper Cards -
Just a quick intro lol. I've been reading playing cards and tarot since high school, and they're fun! They're fine... but my passion is really Lenormand, Sibilla, Indovina and Kipper, which I've been reading for about eight years give or take, and am a professional reader now, but... a very curious one who still loves to learn new things and chat with like-minded people. I'm on the subs on Reddit, which is fun, but they are pretty dead. I live in the far north, but I'm from New England originally. So, hello!
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I don't think I could work with the nature based decks without human interaction, but I could try. It would be fun with a more modern interpretation of these kind of decks, I have been searching for a new oracle that can be read like Lenormand/Kipper, though. I followed the buy me link of the Jennifer Court deck, but got a 404 message. Any of you got luck there?
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A while back—and I can't remember what thread it was—I mentioned that I've been experimenting with Lenormand and Kipper cards mixed together ...and finding it an interesting, and in some ways richer, way to read them both. I use Ciro Marchetti's Fin De Siècle Kipper deck and his Gilded Reverie Lenormand (Expanded Edition.) The cards in both decks are exactly the same size, weight, and finish, so they combine well ...The Lenormand are gilded in gold, and the Kipper in Silver. In case anybody thinks I am a total nut case who is too inventive for my own good ...guess what I just found on Amazon UK? It's The Siren's Song: Diving the Depths with Lenormand and Kipper Cards - includes 40 Lenormand Cards, 38 Kipper Cards and a 144-page colour guidebook. The authors are Carrie Paris and Toni Savory, and this set is published by Red Wheel/Weiser ...29 September, 2023. Current price for the double deck and book is around £28. I haven't bought this set, but I'm VERY tempted. This description of The Siren's Song, included on the Amazon site, is particularly enlightening: ..................... "A fantastical deep-sea world awaits us in this set of two complimentary oracular decks, to be used in combination or alone. These beautiful decks invite us into a world inhabited by iridescent characters who lend their magic, myth (and tentacles!) to every oracle reading. The result is as seductive and eternal as the legendary sirens’ song. Here deep, arcane currents flow and animate the skeletons of those who came before and the guardians of those who are still to come—the keepers of our Unfolding Story. Hidden within these dark waters are secrets and sunken truths, some weighty, others as light as sea spray. This, dear diviner, must seem a strange and uncharted realm; but it teems with new life and unsung potential. Are you ready to take this voyage of discovery? This divination kit contains two oracles: a Kipper and a Lenormand. When used together they provide the highest, fullest degree of possible interpretation. Unlike tarot and oracle decks which are read intuitively, Lenormand cards are read metaphorically, and Kipper cards are read quite literally. Lenormand deals with the outer world, and Kipper deals with the interpersonal. The most common way to read Lenormand and Kipper is to treat the card meanings as words and read them in order. There can be a certain amount of intuition in how you approach the card meanings, but they have set meanings. The Kipper deck is not a card deck that has the capacity to address larger societal issues. It’s more on a personal level, aimed at the everyday realities of people’s lives, and it reflects both the highest and the lowest possibilities those lives can contain. It depicts people, societal roles, and personal states of being. As for the card decks themselves, there are four additional cards in the Lenormand deck – an extra child, man, woman and dog. For the extra “dog” card, the image is a cat. For the Kipper deck, there are two extra marriage cards for all types of unions. The companion book contains instructions to “create your deck of choice” by removing unwanted options, mixing and matching." ........................ This is a fascinating departure from the standard Lenormand reading procedure, but certainly worth exploring, in my opinion. The decks look gorgeous, by the way. The artwork is highly decorative.
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Several years ago I was requested by the German publisher of the original Kipper to redesign this deck. Despite its heritage and place in German cartomancy circles, its popularity, appeal and sales were dwindling. They wanted to inject some new life and style. After some initial doubts, I accepted the challenge on the condition I could transfer the setting of the original Kipper Karten from post Napoleonic war Bavaria, to Victorian Britain. I felt that the historical context of that era would provide a richer means of addressing the social conditions interaction and emotions that kipper deals with. As an example, the following is a summary of my thought process behind this particular card. BEHIND THE CARDS Explanation, perspective and context behind the images of past cards. In this case the THIEF from my Fin de Siècle Kipper deck. Charles Darwin's publication of Origin of the Species, and its radical proposal of man’s evolution from ape, was met with predictable outrage, not only by the church, but by society in general. However its rejection was an uncomfortable and incomplete, scientifically there was enough hint of possibility to the proposal, that it needed to be disproved by action not just debate. It has been proposed that a contributing factor to the extreme attitudes regarding sexuality of those times was in part an academic one rather than the more obvious religious one. It was argued that the indisputable factor separating Man from all other of God’s creation was that of “will” and control over instincts. Self discipline through self control over our basic animal instincts was that factor and indisputable when demonstrating the absurdity of Darwin’s provocative theories. However, this seemingly shallow logic along with supportive encouragement from the church, contributed to dictating the standards of social behavior between the genders, how they dressed, met and generally interacted. But scratch, and not too deeply, beneath the surface of that facade and there is clear evidence of not practicing what was preached. It is estimated that during this period there was a prostitute for every twenty men. The infectious scourge that we refer to as small pox was so named only as a means of differentiating and comparison to the "large" pox, namely syphilis, the true scourge of those times. (This real world reality and context is hinted at in my depiction of card 24, the thief)
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I have a couple of Lenormand decks (Mystical and Gilded Reverie), don't think I have a Kipper. What's the difference between them in use? On the surface they appear very similar, but obviously I've not used the Kipper at all and I've only tried out the Lenormand a couple of times. And can anyone recommend a Kipper?
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Hello ☺️ Well I became very interested in kipper cards .. And would like to know your approach on certain things. Any help would be appreciated. How do you understand directonality in kipper? Like for example, there are cards that portray movement, but is it always important to take the direction? Like journey 10 goes up? And I have to link it with the card above? Or the card 35 from below to left? 😵💫 Is it always like that? There are cards of cause and effect too, to interpret them do you see the surrounding cards? And what are your thoughts about auspicious or inauspicious cards? Or do you see what's behind the character, as past OR as something inauspicious ? About the GT there seem to be many ways to interpret it.. Have you found a way that suits you? There isn't much information around but I find this oracle very interesting
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I've seen Kipper decks around a bit and looked at a few resources, but for some reason it's never gelled with me in the same way as Lenormand did. Would anybody like to share what they think are the unique selling point of Kipper cards? What do they do differently to other oracle decks? What kind of reading are they particularly good for?
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pros of using the reversals with your oracle,kipper, lenormand. etc
HOLMES posted a topic in Cartomancy
Using reversals with oracles (especially the kipper and the lenormand) After I had just brought my lenormand deck and did a reading exchange with my friend who had the lenormand as well. So we were getting started and she said now this card is reversed and I was like what you use reversals ? and she said yes , I use them in the tarot why not the lenormand:? And that blew my mind for I was content to use the reversals with the tarot for in the books I had when I first started out had reversals. And I realized the shock I had was what tarot purists must have had when the new generation at the time started using reversals. (assuming marsielles purists didn’t use reversals and it started as norm in the 70s when eden grey generation came out. I know she was the first book I read). So as I started learning the kipper, I found it limiting to me not to have reversals after a day or two and so I started studying them with reversals as the reason is it is now 2017 but it goes like this,, why not use what we can to add more depth to a reading. For example besides combos, I am sure numerology can be added as there is numbers on the cards. Now this post isn’t about “you must use reversals with your oracles “ as it is clearly a personal choice, the main thing though is to open up your mind to the possibilities of using reversals with your oracles. I think here is the main reason why I didn’t use reversals with oracles presently is this. A . medicine cards, sweat lodge cards, sacred path cards. Because I only the book with the cards (as I didn’t study the cards) I wasn’t comfortable using reversals with them at the time. Also I just used the medicine cards to get my power animals. And so only used the sweat lodge cards once on the forum I think. And twice in real life b. Doreen virtue cards at the time I was going with the positive aspect of the cards, especially when using the mediumship/talking to heaven deck. But it could work,, let say I get writer off life purpose cards, and it is reversed I would read mostly as your efforts to become a writer has been blocked. It could work I think with the oracles , let take the mice for the lenormand card and it is reversed. I would look at it as to pay extra attention for mice for you are not aware they are there. Or perhaps with the kipper and the imprisonment is reversed, could it actually mean they wont’ go to jail ? So before I go on further I offer these posts. http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/card-...oduction.shtml http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/learn...eversals.shtml and if you look up tarot reversals you will see some people make articles about why they don’t’ use them or why they use them. Again it is an individual process and so it is fine if one doesn’t use reversals. I would say about 13 years here at the forum against astrology and tarot working together even after buying the book tarot and astrology. I think I tried but it didn’t click for me for I had my own mental blockages I think that stopped me, then all the sudden it clicked. And while I am on the subject of evolving one knowledge , style when reading.. I think if a person get stuck they fall into a rut and then perhaps it blocks their intuition, or reading no longer is fresh for them. An further example is up until a couple of years ago,, I really relied on positions reading,, and hardly even relied on them as a full spread. For me each position buit on the other. This helped me when using one card to build a story with the other in 3x3 spread that I am now getting used to. So some points that you will read in links above . 1. Reversals means opposite of the card That is the most obvious,, marriage reversed no marriage, ship reversed no travel, 2. Reversals means delayed/blockages You will get married but it will be delayed, you may go to prison after all but it will take a lengthy trial. you should put your trip off for a while til a better time comes along. 3. Reversals means a lesser energy Going by tarot for a minute,,the sun reversed,, there will be happy times but it won’t be as good. Sometimes you see the lovers cards but you just don’t feel that it means they are not meant to be together . instead it means there will be love but it won’t as hot as they want it to be 4. Reversals means an inner world Sometimes reversals means not so much an outer aspects but an inner aspect of loving yourself, letting ideas die , facing your inner fears in the devil. 5. Reversals can mean a lower world This means more shamanic lower world then hell, that is the world where despite some shamans saying this is where the world of the dead preside, issues of the past are, and some nature animals, and helpers reside as well. And could be our subsconsouness as well. Another thing is reversals in my experience tends to show what needs to be paid extra attention to , and usually highlights what isn’t readily known. Example suppose you have a reading and the devil is there, but later on the 5 of wands reversed is there. No positions. Now a person obviously is aware of the devil energy in their reading.. but not so much how they might be giving up to much in debates and losing their intregrity. (losing one intregrity can happen in small stages). So when doing a 3x3 reading it will add more depth,, but can be limiting if you see a reversal as only one of these aspects. And in the end you have to go with your inution.. where you just feel the energy of the card is so strong (hopefully it is a positive card when you feel this ) that it will overcome any block energies in its way. So as I am linking this into the kipper study thread ,, I encourage you to try it with the kipper , but can be used almost with any oracle. -
Some decks have extra man and woman cards, I have read that some readers leave the extras in the deck in order to address same sex relationships. Do you always use just one man and one women in your decks or do you use extras as well. I also read that the Rider card 1 can represent a partner, more comonly a male, although I have seem decks that have a female rider. What other cards in the deck can be used for expressing a same sex relationship? I noticed in the Kipper decks there is at least an extra male card to represent an older man. How close in Kipper to Lenormand? I know that they share some common cards. I haven’t really studied Kipper cards, although I own one Kipper deck. I certainly don’t want to confuse myself at this point.
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I'm interested in learning to read Kipper cards. I've bought Musruck's cards and book -- I understand it's very basic but I prefer a book in hand to online lists. I'm enjoying exploring them but it's clear to me that this set is not really what I want. I've got Puhle's book on order. Generally I like to read as much as possible about a topic and sort out what seems useful and reliable. I may move to German sources & google translate but not yet. I'm interested in finding a deck with more traditional images; I gather that Musruck simplified them. But the decks that are readily available in the US are not doing much for me. I see Fin de Siecle Kipper, Mystical Kipper, and Rainbow Kipper, and I'm just not loving them. Really I just want the Original Kipperkarten deck. Do y'all know of sources in the United States? Thanks for any pointers.
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https://a.co/d/4Gb0BRH I posted it here instead of lenormand as it comes 2 decks, intended to be used together or individually The kipper has 2 extra marriage cards for all types of reunion. Aug 7 2023
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I stumbled on an expanded Kipper deck yesterday and found a second one today. However, the new cards have no guidebook - it seems to be keywords at best, though I’ve contacted both sellers to see if I missed something in their description. Would it be possible to use new kipper cards without knowing the card type (stop, connector, movement, person, cause and effect)? This makes me question if the deck creators know how kipper cards are used. What is your opinion on expanded kipper decks? Could you use one if you had only keywords for new cards?
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More than a couple of people have suggested @katrinka write a book. That said, she did a lot of research and translating from German on her own. That all takes a lot of time. She visited German forums, too. You might also consider doing that. There are few resources in English but I have Puhle’s Rainbow Kipper and her other Kipper deck. I also invested in The Card Geek’s Guide to Kipper. It’s a worthwhile purchase in my opinion. And all of that said…a card can show a situation that is ongoing in an inauspicious position. In an auspicious position but far from the MC, it’s something that may or may not happen. It always depends on the location of the MC to the other card. But nothing in life exists in isolation, so you have to look to see what’s surrounding a problematic card.
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I know next to nothing about Kipper, but I noticed someone on MPC is selling the original Kipper from the late 1800s. It's one of MPC's featured designs this week. https://www.makeplayingcards.com/sell/1890s-kipper-original If MPC let it get through when it shouldn't be there, I can remove this link.
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Thanks for this recommendation, Amazon has a Kindle edition, and it'll be great to have some kipper books on my phone for on the go! 😄
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After some months researching about these cards, reading German books as well I found out some interesting things : -Directonality isn't something used by everyone with these cards, I found most authors dont really care about it. Also the auspicious and auspicious term seems to be something not quite known or used by other German readerS. -About the GT there are different methods, it looks like the houses method is something widely applied with these cards, and well I think Toni has a great method leaving behind the confusing direction parts, but then those parts can be useful for some and it's up to the reader but definitely isn't something that needs to be done exactly in the way she does. So anyway I hope that more books are written about kipper 💝. I recommend the book Das Geheimnis der Kipperkarten band 2 by Ingo Michael Simon (which talks about the GT in detail mostly, the number 1 is about the cards meanings but I recommend the 2 specially because it focuses on the gt, others books I read where rather vague about it ) I feel Toni Puhle book is very valuable as well when it comes to the card meanings for everyone and if you want to apply the directonality cues it is up to you 😊. So all in all, it was great to explore other methods.
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I don't see myself mixing Lenormand and Kipper until I have a good grasp on Kipper. In fact, may never mix the two, but Toni did present some interesting suggestions for mixing, like adding more people cards to Kipper. She covered a Kipper reading in the second half of the video, which I really appreciated. And in the end, I ordered the Siren's Song set. It wasn't hard to justify: the art appeals to me, I always love having another Lenormand deck, I'm building a Kipper collection, and Amazon is currently offering a 20%-off coupon in addition to a 23% discount. Plus Toni has another Siren's Song video that focuses on Kipper... PS: This Kipper deck has the directions from the 1920's FX Schmidt publication.
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I'm still fairly new to the Kipper system, but is there any timings with this system or is it more vague or general terms? I'm terrible at tarot timing and I know Lenormand has it's own timing structure...which is why I ask
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This Kipper area is under the Cartomancy section - https://www.thetarotforum.com/forums/forum/69-cartomancy/ There is a Your Readings (for anyone to post a reading to get help with, please interpret it yourself first) and Card Exchanges where members can offer readings. Feedback always has to be given in exchange. There is no ongoing kipper exchange but we can create one if anyone has any ideas for it. This area is for Kippers, Playing Cards, any cartomancy apart tarot, oracles and Lenormand, who have their own sections 🙂
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Directonality.. Auspicious, inauspicious.. And GT
MlleTemperance replied to Lovebird's topic in Kipper
This is in line with what you can find on the german website I referred to, so you wouldn't be wrong 🙃 but you can allow yourself to try different methods to see what works best for you. It's all intuition games after all! Right. I find the Lenormand and Kipper have more than a few similarities, and there is much more information available on the Lenormand systems (in English anyway). Have you heard of Iris Treppner before? If not, maybe this would give you some more information on different reading styles (houses, corners, mirroring, story lines, etc.). I personally think it is not the best to try it all at once (it gets confusing in my opinion), but having these general notions in mind can help "problem solve" the GT sometimes. Maybe we can start one 🙂 Yes, I have read the same books as you. They both give you a sense of what the cards are about and how to start reading them, but Toni Puhle and Alexandre Musruck aren't my favourites and here is why: - I don't like it when people claim there is A way to read a specific system; I prefer when you are taught the basics and allowed to follow what feels right for you afterwards. If there was one best way to do it, then we would all come to the same answers/conclusions... Toni gives me the "wrong vibe" in that sense. And yes, a loooot of motion with her reading style 😅 I haven't found that necessary nor helpful so far. - I have read Musruck's Lenormand book and his Kipper booklet (the one that comes with the deck, I think this might be a French edition only). I find that more than 50% of his books are cue words for combinations of cards... but this can be quite repetitive. For example, the combination for card #1 looking at #7, and #7 in front of #1 are the same and both are included in the book, so I find it somewhat useless. I think they are more of a "cheat sheet" than an actual reference. I would rather have more information on the origins of the system, a deeper description of each card or a thorough description of one or two spreads than a quick overview of 5 different spreads. In the end, I usually feel like I didn't get much out of his content, enven though the book is over 100 pages. -
Hi Mllle thank you for replying, I truly appreciate it ☺️☺️☺️🙏🙏 That is a very good way for anyone to beggin getting familiar with this oracle, the cross, or the 3 card reading or 1 card like card of the day. And What a wonderful video about the GT 😍 thanks for sharing, it being in French isn't a problem and in any other language thanks to YouTube translator 🥰🥰🥰 .He explains really well covering the surrounding cards, at some point I had thought that all the columns where the main person card look at where their future 🫣🙈 what a mess Hahah. You are right, it IS intimidating specially because it uses all the cards, but his approach is one that I recently have found other readers have as well, with just focusing on the lines directly connected to the main person and diagonals. Also the 4 corner cards are really important and then checking the houses, but not all of them just the ones that are important for us, like can give some extra information. For me, since the cards have numbers,I check the number card to know the house and Interpret the combination with the card that landed there. This video https://youtu.be/Nf6ubhj3aug?si=0_6yonyZINloVCE2 was also quite helpful for me (german) about the kipper GT and I asked the person that made the video a few things which made me happy she clarified😍. You may want to check it out as well. She used the mirror techniques as well. Her approach seems similar to the one of the archive and also in many ways similar to the video you shared . What I noticed is that she sees part of what is behind the main character as past, not as something inauspicious but interpret them with the normal meanings (btw the inauspicious cards, apart from those of the main characters when they are back to back , remind me a lot of tarot reversals.. So maybe it just depends on the person if wants to interpret them different ) I hope there will be a section like that or already exist , would be very fun 🥰 Have you read any kipper books? I have read Alexandr Musruck and Toni Puhle books. Mmm I dont know but Toni so much movement with the directions or connections reminds me of some boarding game, interesting still but I feel I want to keep reasearching to know what I take for me, for example... The gift card, the gift goes from up to down, but I feel that it can link sometimes to cards that have nothing to do much with the situation, specially in a GT... Thanks again really 🩵
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Directonality.. Auspicious, inauspicious.. And GT
MlleTemperance replied to Lovebird's topic in Kipper
Hi @Lovebird, I've known Kipper for maybe 2-3 years now but I haven't done many readings with it since then. More recently I started reading more on the topic (thanks to this forum and its resources). I think the GT is quite intimidating for a beginner, so personally I started with more simple readings (focus card in the center, then adding 4 cards to build a cross), just to get more familiar with the meanings and directonality of the cards. A few weeks ago I decided I would give the GT a go and see how it feels. I stumbled upon this method where, starting from the main focus/character card, you read only a few of the lines (horizontally, vertically and diagonally). I know this reading may not be complete, but I feel like it's a little more accessible for me until I get more experienced and take it to the next step. Here is a video that shows this method (it's in French though). At the moment I like to combine this method with the one you can find here. Hope this helps 🙂 By the way, is there any Kipper readings exchange on the forum? I saw people offering them but not exchanging them as they do with Tarot or Lenormand. Maybe that would be a fun way for beginners to practice and learn ?
