Christianity and Tarot

[Anabiyeni]

Like some of you, I put more stock in the messages of the bible than in the rituals of the church, and I believe the Catholic Church would benefit from doing away with the priesthood, but I still consider myself a devout Roman Catholic and enjoy being part of a Catholic community. As far as I know, my family and parish don't care that I read Tarot cards. Individual friends do, but they handle that by avoiding the topic, which is fine with me.

 

Several people in my bible study group know I read Tarot and on occasion, a few have asked me to do readings for them. I don't do divination, though. I don't believe in it, but if you do, all power to you. I read to gain insight into a situation and possible consequences of decisions. I find that when I mention I don't do divination, wary people are more likely to ask follow up questions than to judge immediately, since that often seems to be their hang-up with Tarot.

[Guest]

To be honest I've not satisfactorily resolved this for myself. The scripture is quite clear in its admonitions against divination. Some Christian readers circumvent this by saying that they use the cards not in fortune telling but psycho-therapeutically, for example; to discover their hidden selves more fully and therefore heal them; or to simply gain a fresh perspective on pressing issues. 

 

The problem is I admit that I do use the Tarot for divination. Certain parts of the Bible do acknowledge that this may be permitted in some cases, i.e. when the gift of prophecy is clearly a boon from God. Which then opens up more questions, for how can you be absolutely sure of this? 

 

I do know that throughout the ages and even in modern times, some devout ecclesiastics have read with the Tarot. Even a certain Machiavellian ex-president was said to have acquired the services of a mystic nun who read her cards. The Tarot as a concept is not totally anathema even in the Vatican - witness the picture of the Pope Saint John Paul II with the 2-volume German version of Tomberg's Meditations on the Tarot on his desk. That said, I believe that book does not include a word about divination within its pages?

 

I like reading accounts of Catholics who managed to reconcile the cards to their faith if only to also be able to do the same. The quest is still ongoing. 

[FindYourSovereignty]

When I first started reading tarot I was threatened of abandonment by a loved one because divination and reading the stars’ is taboo in the Bible.

 

IMO, the Bible has had too many translations for me to feel 100% that what I have been taught was the intent as interpreted or maybe this word or phrase was not even originally in the Bible at all and, what about all the parts that have been left out? Who got to decide what is in and what is out? Who gets to determine what the words and stories mean? Who gets to decide prophecy is allowed, but divination isn’t? And who gets to decide the definitions of these two words, or any of the words or stories? My list goes on. 😊

 

Just like the tarot cards, there are so many interpretations and possibilities when we think outside the box of our conditioning and look for the answers ourselves. 
 

I ask those against tarot, astrology, etc. What are your thoughts on using a planner or datebook to schedule your week, year, 5-year goals etc? Do you plan on receiving a paycheck and how it is going to be spent before it arrives? Do you have it spent before it even arrives? Is this not in some way a form of divination?
 

Just the start of my many, many thoughts on biblical doctrine.

[Teemu]

Working with the tarot does not mean that you have to be a devout / practising / pious christian. I am certainly not, but I have a christian background, which is more than enough IMHO.

[gregory]

I'm a minister's daughter. Tarot fits me just fine - and he was OK with it too. He said we all have to be true to ourselves.

[Mister]

On 10/22/2020 at 6:02 PM, vague-whisperings said:

Unfortunately, I have a hard time reconciling the two as tarot cards are considered 'devil magic/worship', as repeatedly stated by my parents. So those of you who are Christian, or Christian-adjacent, how do you rationalize both, when they seem so contradictory to each other?

 

Speaking historically, the Tarot is a genuine pack of christian playing cards.

No problem whatsoever, there is no need to re-concile something which does not conflict.

 

The "devil worship" part stems from a misunderstanding of the subject, combined with a ban on fortunetelling issued by the church and an ongoing ostracism of the subject in general, due to its - Yeah, due to what, actually? Neboulousness? Risk of fraud? Lack of scientific proof (with the exclusion of empirism)?

In howfar the church itself is true to what can be considered christian teachings by word of Jesus Himself is a whole nother matter, I feel.

Especially as the words of him himself are hard to come by if you up the degree of water-resistance requiered for proof.

 

There is this book, "Meditations on the Tarot"*, a tome considering that it only deals with the majors -  its author can well be considered to lean more than a bit towards the christian side. It is definitely an interesting read.

 

*the book is easy to find online, there should be various links to free full copies of it.

[Misterei]

12 hours ago, Akhilleus said:

... The scripture is quite clear in its admonitions against divination ...

Sort of. For example we've got Deuteronomy 18:9-12 which lumps fortune telling in with burning your children as practices done by "those nations" that should be avoided:

“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.

 

Then again you have casting lots in the old testament. It's just presented as a normal part of life:

“The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord.”
Proverbs 16:33

 

8 hours ago, FindYourSovereignty said:

When I first started reading tarot I was threatened of abandonment by a loved one because divination and reading the stars’ is taboo in the Bible.

IMO, the Bible has had too many translations for me to feel 100%

Yes, per above, The old testament referenced casting lots as a normal thing to do. Arguably, cartomancy is pretty similar to Lots.

 

Meanwhile ... in Renaissance Italy ... where Tarocchi arose ... EVERYONE did astrology. The planets were seen as intermediaries between God and Humans. Many Priests also were astrologer. Every noble family had an astrologer on staff. When the Church questioned astrology Marcilio Ficino defended it by saying the the Planets were like middle management. God was too busy doing God stuff to directly concern himself with the affiars of humans. It was the Planets who managed people. Of course this lives at the intersection of Neo Platonism and Catholicism.

2 hours ago, Mister said:

Speaking historically, the Tarot is a genuine pack of christian playing cards.

No problem whatsoever, there is no need to re-concile something which does not conflict.

Tarocchi certainly was "a genuine pack of christian playing cards" in Renaissance Italy.

 

I think alot of it is cultural, too. For example some Greek people may be devoutly Greek Orthodox ... but they still read coffee grounds.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Misterei

[Guest]

@Misterei Regarding the casting of lots, it is not fortune-telling per se insofar as it tells what the future would be. Biblical cleromancy is used to comprehend God's will, as to how He commands the future should be. So if His people have questions about the division of lands or offices for example, or in rituals as to when a specific tribe may offer their wood tribute to His altar, then they resort to the casting of lots to determine how God wants them to proceed. However, along with gaining knowledge about the present (gleaning God's will), it has also been used to determine the past (as with the tale of Jonah), so it does veer rather close to divination. 

 

You are absolutely right about astrology though. The admonitions against it in scripture are very clear, and yet I know of three Renaissance popes who indulged in it. Leo X even endowed a chair of astrology in one of the renowned universities in the Papal States. OTOH he is the scoundrel of the "fable of Christ" infamy, so with him we are setting the bar very low indeed. 

 

The combination of fervent Christianity and the vestiges of folk spirituality is indeed fascinating. While there are Catholics who recoil at the mere mention of the cards (like my female best friend at my previous job), there are some devout souls who express an unvarnished interest in them.  

[Misterei]

14 hours ago, Akhilleus said:

 

 … While there are Catholics who recoil at the mere mention of the cards (like my female best friend at my previous job), there are some devout souls who express an unvarnished interest in them.  

It’s difficult to separate religion from Culture. I was raised Greek orthodox where no one would see anything odd about divination or blessing a car before a long drive. Some Italian ppl have mentioned to me being very Catholic yet certain folk practices or something like Tarot cards would’t raise an eyebrow. I associate the fear and loathing for Tarot more with Protestant and/or Fundamentalists sects in USA which has that “Puritan” thing. I think it’s the same in Moslem world too. Like Moroccan ppl tend to be pretty loose about fortune telling and all sorts of folk practices..Many Turkish moslems read coffee grounds. Yet other nationalities might be more uptight. Just a general impression … not like I did a survey or anything.

[Misterei]

On 5/10/2023 at 5:03 PM, DeathFlowerKing said:

I'm not a Christian anymore but one thing I find intriguing about pre-Rider Waite Smith tarot cards is that they originally were drawn with medieval Christian imagery and they were not originally designed for divination but for playing card games.

Ahh. But original Tarocchi cards which pre-date TdM were painted often from real people of 1400s Italy. Although the models were Rennaisance italians there were often neo-platonic themes being depicted … of course Christianized to keep the Inquisition happy.

On 5/10/2023 at 5:03 PM, DeathFlowerKing said:

The female pope is actually rather interesting imho as she represents hersey in the Catholic Church and there's a number of theories about her identity like some claim she was based off the legend of Pope Joan the alleged first and only female pope who disguised as a man but died in childbirth

At least in the Visconti Sforza deck the Papess was an actual woman of either the Visonti or Sforza family who was a high ranking Abbess in her time. Both families were rich and powerful … even an abbess was called a female pope and wielded political influence.

On 5/10/2023 at 5:03 PM, DeathFlowerKing said:

Too many modern tarot decks seem to have whitewashed a lot of the Christian symbology out of these cards …

Or not enough! The “judgment” card originally meant “fame” in the original triunfi. A trumpet was the symbol of fame in Rennaissance time. It bugs me that most decks continue to use this christianized “last judgement” imagery. *sigh*

[Morwenna]

The cultural aspect cannot be denied. Every culture has had some sort of divination, and they are ongoing to this day, along with other folk practices. Primarily Catholic cultures are no different. My mother's family came out of French Canada in the late 19th century, and my extremely devout Catholic grandmother was a reader of playing cards for her whole family and no one thought any ill of it. Whether the clergy had anything to say about it I have no idea, but wise clerics would have recognized that trying to stamp out anything like that would be like trying to stop a forest fire with a watering can. I have heard this same thing from folks of Irish heritage, Slavic heritage, etc. etc., so to all these people their folk practices had nothing to do with their otherwise piety. These are people who never missed Sunday or holyday Mass unless they were on their deathbeds! And prayed at least twice a day formally, had what they felt were personal relationships with their patron saints, saw to it that their children had some form of religious education, and so on. And look at the cult of Mary--you might as well call it a cult, anthropologists do--with all the crownings and hymns, and in some countries the processions through the streets. Face it, she has assumed the role of the Goddess. And then listen to how the fundamentalist Protestants howl in rage! Some of them hate Catholics as much as Pagans, if not more so because they're more familiar with Catholics. 

 

As for the Biblical injunctions, notice that they all seem to be from the Old Testament, something Protestants seem to place much more stock in than do Catholics. All their talk about Jesus seems to ignore what he is reported to have actually said--and says nothing about what he didn't say! I may be wrong but I can't think of anything in the New Testament (except maybe in an Epistle that I might not have noticed) that says anything about divination, pro or con.

 

And yes, clergy don't want to put themselves out of a job; wasn't that one of the problems with Gnosticism back when? Many have been so immersed in the idea that turning to things like this means turning away from God, in fact setting oneself up as one's own God. That, I think, is where the devil thing comes in. AFAIK, various clergy have been against almost anything that psychologically helps people, at least at the beginning, out of that very fear; only prayer and devotion to God can help. It does help for some people, but everyone is different. 

 

For the record, I was raised Catholic, and I still resonate to a lot of it, but I've never been happy with the church structure even in childhood, and when I discovered Neo-Paganism in mid-adulthood I absorbed a lot of Pagan practice, if not the deities themselves; I rarely go to church anymore, but in certain ways I still pray. No one likes the term Christo-Pagan anymore, but that is exactly what I am. And those of you who love the basis of a religion but reject the man-made structures (which is what they are), you're totally fine. Don't let some authority figure dictate your heartfelt practices.