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The petit lenormand oracle by lisa young-sutton


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I saw a post on fb by the author it will be available for preorder with paperback release for may. 

You can buy it now through amazon on kindle. 

A comprehensive manual for the 21st century card reader is added to the title.. 

I looked around the toc

https://lisaloveslenormand.com/

The toc goes about 8 pages

And it is 400 pages. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, HOLMES said:

I saw a post on fb by the author it will be available for preorder with paperback release for may. 

You can buy it now through amazon on kindle. 

A comprehensive manual for the 21st century card reader is added to the title.. 

I looked around the toc

https://lisaloveslenormand.com/

The toc goes about 8 pages

And it is 400 pages. 

 

 


You will have to tell us what you think, @HOLMES

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katrinka

I never heard of her, so I had a look at her website and the amazon link. TBH, I'm not impressed:
"Lisa began writing this book as a learner, explaining details and concepts from a beginner's mindset"

 

I really wish people would stop proclaiming themselves experts every time they discover a deck or system. She obviously hasn't invested the time to gain the understanding necessary to instruct anyone. Sturgeon's Law is relevant here. 

"Zen mind, beginner's mind" is not relevant here. We aren't talking about some nonconceptual "Void is form, form is void."  We're talking about learning a language, with conventions and rules and all that other stuff that people apparently find yucky these days. Lenormand does not concern itself with mysticism or Jung or anything of that nature. It's grounded in day to day concerns like "Where are my keys?" ""Is he cheating?" and "Will I get the job?"

 

From her "About Me" page:
"Hi friends and thank you so much for joining me! I’m a writer and author, a mystic, a Reiki Master, a pendulum dowser, an EFT practitioner, a student of Shamanism, and a lover of the natural world."
 

None of this qualifies her as a Lenormand reader. Rather, it punts her into a new age crystals and unicorns area that is decidedly ANTI-Lenormand.


She even has a unicorn hand puppet in her video. Are we not functioning adults? Can she not respect her audience enough not to use hand puppets?

And did I hear correctly, did she pronounce the 'd' in "Lenormand"?
 

I read Petit and Grand Jeu Lenormand, playing cards and oracle cards for animals and humans.

My purpose is to help you succeed by using my spiritual gifts and training."

 

I have seen exactly zero evidence on her site that she reads the Grand Jeu, but OK. Maybe she reads it as badly as she reads Lenormand. 

 

Always, ALWAYS run like hell when someone mentions their "spiritual gifts."


I hope you get your $6.99 worth, Holmes, but as for me, I'll pass.

Edited by katrinka
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On her you tube channal 

Lisa loves  the lenormand created 2 months ago 

There is  titles, why you want to make your own lenormand deck 

29 minute vido on improving your question

Differnt ways of reading 5 cards

3 different videos on box spread

A box spread extension   one layer closer to  gramd tableu

Directional reading involving people

10 minute video on dont let images change your meanings

17 minute on grand tabeleu to answer a single question absolutely

37 min video called have you lost your mojo 

2 sample grand tabelu videos 

14 minvideo on answering yes or no just posted a day ago

 

I havent checked theseout.i will probaly check out extending the boxspread

.... 

I was surpised never heard of her,  appears to have come out of nowwhere

I guess i could bite the bullet and buy the kindle while cheap, 

 

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katrinka
6 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

I was surpised never heard of her,  appears to have come out of nowwhere


Exactly.
I'm wondering what her scam was prior to this one?

 

7 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

I guess i could bite the bullet and buy the kindle while cheap,


Or just keep the $6.99 and get lunch. I recommend tacos. Tacos are yummy.

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17 hours ago, katrinka said:


Exactly.
I'm wondering what her scam was prior to this one?

 


Or just keep the $6.99 and get lunch. I recommend tacos. Tacos are yummy.


In the acknowledgments the author thanks Björn, Dr. Elias and Toni Puhle. 
 

I was disappointed that she states I see the Paths as a negative card in contrast to Björn. That is a misrepresentation/misreading. 
 

If the Paths falls near the Significator, it indicates the reaching of a crisis point. The original draft used “critical junction” rather than crisis, but was changed by the editor because the definition of crisis is a time when a difficult or important decision is made. That is explained in the progressed meanings.  But never mind. 

 

Her example (quoted below) uses the Tree and the Paths offering treatment options. That is the illustration I used when asked on my first blogged about what the “many trees” means meant in 2011. I think I still have it. But never mind. 

 

[Quote]:
The closer this card falls to the PSC, the more urgency there is in a need to make a choice, but also the clearer the choices will be and the more control they’ll have over them. The fact that it’s near indicates that at least two options exist, because you can’t make a choice unless you have at least two things to choose from. Consider this scenario: There is a challenging cluster of cards surrounding an important life area such as health (Tree). Regardless of its distance from the PSC, this indicates that there will be some health issues to face within the time frame of the GT. Would you rather have the “way out” card close by or out of your reach? Personally, I want it close![/quote]


 

Edited by timtoldrum
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To be fair to Lisa Young-Sutton the book is far from bad. It is clear that Ms. Young-Sutton had read widely, including authors’ teaching analogies. But it is frustrating to have blanket statements like that. As I use the term negative in terms of polarity, it muddles the water.  Antony Louis did the same. 

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Thanks for investigating, i didn't purchase it yet. 

I instead was watching her you tube videos. 

At first one may discount them as she has puppets in her first 2 videos, i skipped over the 30 min vid on questions. 

Her box videos is where she got down to actual teaching. I hadnt checked out a lenormand lesson video before, just decks and donna leigh video on how she helped change the blue bird deck. 

I found it engaging as she went over the video that for this part she knew her stuff.

Her video on solving a mystery was interesting (how the client dog fur changed in a part of the fur).

Her voice is engaging. 

So i am glad to see the book is far from bad.

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It is definitely not a bad book. But it is not one that I would offer a total beginner.  For example she mixes the Coffee Cards, Game of Hope and the Philippe Lenormand! 
 

She associates the Moon card with intuition and offers a very weak defence. Either the Stars (direction, clarity) or the Sun (illumination, energy) would be a better fit — particularly in terms of her sources.  
 

When discussing positive, negative and neutral she states she found, on reviewing the Philippe Lenormand sheet, some of the neutrals were really positive-neutral and neutral-negative.  I’ve said that for 10 years, so yes.  But she doesn’t explain how it works (facilitation). 

 

Edited to Add: She also explains the axis of influence (left weak, et cetera) but doesn’t name it or give attribution. 

Edited by timtoldrum
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fabfranco

Pardon my intrusion, I'm new to the forum, though not a total newbie in Lenormand - which I'm studying and using for the past eight years. I'm from Brazil, but I don't "follow" the Brazilian idyosincratic interpretations of the cards. I started by reading Iris Treppner and Rana George, after being given a deck from a friend who knew I was into Tarot (35 years of dabbling into) and Runes (20 years of doing so). Through this initial point of view, I moved to Caitlin Matthews (whose book is still a bit convoluted to me) and Donnaleigh DeLaRose videos. By living in Brazil, I got some local books (which mix Umbanda and Kardec's spiritualist influences) though I didn't connect. Mr. Boroveshengra's book was a very nice addition to my studies back in 2016, and it's been a reference book ever since. I was an active participant in some Lenormand groups in Facebook, but they all boiled down to people asking for free readings, which cooled my enthusiasm. I came here for like-minded people and more instruction (we are never full learnt/taught in cartomancy). Well, long introduction aside, what made me post here is that I too bought Mrs. Sutton book and, except for some passages about the meaning of pairing cards that confused me, I have been reckoning it as an interesting work. I would like to see more opinions and questions about it, if possible. 

 

I hope I didn't break any decorum rules by meddling into this conversation. If I did, please feel free to delete this post. Thank you.

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katrinka
32 minutes ago, fabfranco said:

Pardon my intrusion, I'm new to the forum, though not a total newbie in Lenormand - which I'm studying and using for the past eight years. I'm from Brazil, but I don't "follow" the Brazilian idyosincratic interpretations of the cards.

 

Well, yes. That's what's meant by the oft-repeated statement that there are no Lenormand "schools" - not everyone in Brazil reads the same way, and that also applies to France, Germany, etc. 
 

32 minutes ago, fabfranco said:

By living in Brazil, I got some local books (which mix Umbanda and Kardec's spiritualist influences) though I didn't connect.

 

Yes, it's very different.
I can read Rana's book and relate to what she's doing, even though some of her interpretations are very different from mine. But what I've read of Brazilian Lenormand had me feeling a bit lost. You really need a solid background in Quimbanda/Umbanda, I think.
 

32 minutes ago, fabfranco said:

Mr. Boroveshengra's book was a very nice addition to my studies back in 2016, and it's been a reference book ever since. I was an active participant in some Lenormand groups in Facebook, but they all boiled down to people asking for free readings, which cooled my enthusiasm.

 

Facebook card reading groups are the worst, I agree. 🤣
Those sound unmoderated. Some will boot the freeloaders, but even with that, there isn't much good content there.
 

32 minutes ago, fabfranco said:

I came here for like-minded people and more instruction (we are never full learnt/taught in cartomancy). Well, long introduction aside, what made me post here is that I too bought Mrs. Sutton book and, except for some passages about the meaning of pairing cards that confused me, I have been reckoning it as an interesting work. I would like to see more opinions and questions about it, if possible. 

 

???
I went to amazon to see a preview and that book has a release date of May 5, 2021.
https://smile.amazon.com/Petit-Lenormand-Oracle-Comprehensive-Century/dp/1098359704/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&qid=1617760917&refinements=p_27%3ALisa+Sutton&s=books&sr=1-1

But TBH, I'm not optimistic:
"Lisa began writing this book as a learner, explaining details and concepts from a beginner's mindset with the hopes that it would be easily understandable by everyone from a complete novice, to professional readers who simply want to view this system from a fresh perspective."

In other words, she's a noob. She's not ready to teach this yet.

I found her youtube channel. I'm...not impressed. 🤣
And why the cartoony kiddie deck? Who's the target audience here?
 

32 minutes ago, fabfranco said:

I hope I didn't break any decorum rules by meddling into this conversation. If I did, please feel free to delete this post. Thank you.

 

None that I'm aware of. Welcome.

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2 hours ago, fabfranco said:

Pardon my intrusion, I'm new to the forum, though not a total newbie in Lenormand - which I'm studying and using for the past eight years. I'm from Brazil, but I don't "follow" the Brazilian idyosincratic interpretations of the cards. I started by reading Iris Treppner and Rana George, after being given a deck from a friend who knew I was into Tarot (35 years of dabbling into) and Runes (20 years of doing so). Through this initial point of view, I moved to Caitlin Matthews (whose book is still a bit convoluted to me) and Donnaleigh DeLaRose videos.

 

Welcome and feel free to jump in .

All of our intentions are pure in the sense we all want to help here on the forum. Our debates are like the 5 of wands as we discuss finer points. 

Right now when i do watch a video i try to mix it up between authors  or focus on a topic like the 9 card spread. 

We all come from differnt cultures and approaches. 

Example in 2021 for the english speaking (with no other languages). We only got what is available in books unless one takes an online course. 

I haven't found trepper book on amazon canada so i just assumed it was in adiffernt language. 

 

Quote

 

By living in Brazil, I got some local books (which mix Umbanda and Kardec's spiritualist influences) though I didn't connect. Mr. Boroveshengra's book was a very nice addition to my studies back in 2016, and it's been a reference book ever since. I was an active participant in some Lenormand groups in Facebook, but they all boiled down to people asking for free readings, which cooled my enthusiasm. I came here for like-minded people and more instruction (we are never full learnt/taught in cartomancy).

 

Regarding fb studies groups. 

I see the same post in 3 different groups.. and i wonder why.. so many takes would dilute the energy for me.

 

Quick question. 

Do you know of any english brazilian lenormand book coming out that just focus on the traditions of lenormand 

 

 

Quote

 

Well, long introduction aside, what made me post here is that I too bought Mrs. Sutton book and, except for some passages about the meaning of pairing cards that confused me, I have been reckoning it as an interesting work. I would like to see more opinions and questions about it, if possible. 

 

I have it in kindle now. I was going to save it til like the end of the month but since your looking for a review i will read it next. Keep in mine i am still lenormand newbie and look at them from a non traditional approach.

 

Quote

 

I hope I didn't break any decorum rules by meddling into this conversation. If I did, please feel free to delete this post. Thank you.

 

No meddling , that is what the forum is for sharing and stimulation of ideas. And read for each other.

In fact you are welcome to jump in many.for we all do.

 

Pm sent of welcome sent.

Edited by HOLMES
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I imagine her you tube videos are for complete beginners..

 

Before that video. I read up on chaining and just didn't get it.I haven't watched it up but hope it helps me when i read it. 

Some of her other videos help me to jump start concepts to go back and relook at the 9 square for example. 

 

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katrinka
34 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

I imagine her you tube videos are for complete beginners..


Yes, but she's giving them bad advice. 
She had a line of three that she said "made no sense" and she advised walking away and trying another day.
But the thing is, the cards DID make sense and they answered the question. She didn't know how to read them:
 


I couldn't watch any more. Ack.

Edited by katrinka
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7 hours ago, katrinka said:

I believe it was out on kindle for a bit and then vanished again ? Probably because it was up on scribd in moments :classic_angry: It's on her site as an ebook, anyway.

 

Welcome to the forum, fabfranco. The whole point of the place is to have and to widen discussion - new posts from new people are lovely.

 

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8 hours ago, fabfranco said:

Well, long introduction aside, what made me post here is that I too bought Mrs. Sutton book and, except for some passages about the meaning of pairing cards that confused me, I have been reckoning it as an interesting work. I would like to see more opinions and questions about it, if possible. 


It is far from a bad book. I cannot offer a proper review, as I have written a book. 
 

8 hours ago, fabfranco said:

I hope I didn't break any decorum rules by meddling into this conversation. If I did, please feel free to delete this post. Thank you.


Not as far as I know. You’re more than welcome.

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7 hours ago, HOLMES said:

Before that video. I read up on chaining and just didn't get it.I haven't watched it up but hope it helps me when i read it. 

Some of her other videos help me to jump start concepts to go back and relook at the 9 square for example. 


I have not watched the video; however, “chaining” is complicated by the fact that people use the term for two separate things.

 

When I use the term chains and chaining it refers to cards between two important cards. For example, say you have the Gentleman + Letter + Flowers + Park + Heart + Lady. Here the Letter, the Flowers, the Park and the Heart cards are chained by the Gentlemen and the Lady cards. The chain describes what goes on between the two cards.

 

You can uses chains with any key cards. For example, if you had a job interview look for cards between the Significator and the Moon (you) and between the Moon and the Fox (other candidates). If you were looking to make extra money look for cards between the Fishes and the Significator or the Boat (commerce). 

 

Around 2011/12, Mary K Greer began using the term chain of houses. Over time, it became abbreviated to chaining and chains.

 

The technique Mary was referring to is house hopping and is actually an alternative to counting. 

Edited by timtoldrum
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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, katrinka said:


Yes, but she's giving them bad advice. 
She had a line of three that she said "made no sense" and she advised walking away and trying another day.
But the thing is, the cards DID make sense and they answered the question. She didn't know how to read them:
 


I couldn't watch any more. Ack.

 

I watched the video, it is all for using a new 3 card spread instead of just attempting to throw down a clarifying card. So the first points are reasons why one may feel they need a clarifier in the place.

She evens pulls out a new maresilles book to illustrate the clarifier point with a highlighter as she reads it then puts the book away and goes back to building a spread as an additional question which build logically. 

How will the evening go , and how will the evening be disrupted. 

Then you realize you didnt ask the relationship. So you ask how will you feel about him.

 

So going to your point.. 

Her advice is about having a clear mind, so without the clear mind. One expects certain cards to show up like the snake, so when they don't out preconceptions of what was suppose to happen block our ability. As a kind of extension to the first point of how the cards don't show us what we want to hear so a beginner may try to force it to fit instead of seeing the cards as is. 

And the third point before i forget is it ends on a sort of question using the scyte as an example

 

Regardless a clarifying card by itself doesn't work for she feels each 3 card layout is a circuit that is closed so there is no energy to form new energy for the clarifer.  So time for a new circuit in terms of a new spread. 

 

I am all for that, for that is a big part of my own personal belief system as a reader,that i strive to be calm and recieve the cards impartially. So should i be tired i won't read for the flow won't be strong and i feel it will be just words. 

Oh she mentions clarifiers don't happen in gts as a personal joke. So in her other video must be a of proponent moving to gt as soon as comfortable. I am just guessing.

 

So i think here in the case of bad advice on this specific point we may have to agree to disagree as it wasn't that the cards didn't  make sense, it was the mindset that blocked the reading so come back with clear mind. 

Though i would add, take note of the reading and look at it in hindsight. 

 

Course i am big supporter of grounding and raising my vibration before any reading.. she doesnt mention nothing like but for the clear mind aspect. Least in this video. 

 

In her book i am just reading her personal story how she learned  at the beginning. So i dont know if grounding/vibration reading is a big part of her routine.

 

 

Edited by HOLMES
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katrinka
28 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

I watched the video, it is all for using a new 3 card spread instead of just attempting to throw down a clarifying card.


Yes, I get that. I don't believe in using "clarifiers" either. 
But she lays the three cards and advises abandoning them rather than working out what they're saying. And that's bad advice.
Nobody's going to learn if they don't work these things out.
 

37 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

One expects certain cards to show up like the snake, so when they don't out preconceptions of what was suppose to happen block our ability.

 

What you'e saying is that she expected certain cards to show up, and when they didn't, she was at a loss about how to read them.
It sounds like she needs to go back to square one and learn card interpretations rather than attempting to teach others.

 

44 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

Her advice is about having a clear mind, so without the clear mind.


Not having a clear mind because you're going through something horrible and stressful is understandable. In that case it would be better to wait until your nerves have settled.

Not having a clear mind because you expected the Snake or whatever, and you got Stars-Bouquet-Key is the hallmark of a person who can't read cards. 
You seldom get the cards you would expect, else what would be the purpose of using them?

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2 hours ago, HOLMES said:

I watched the video, it is all for using a new 3 card spread instead of just attempting to throw down a clarifying card. So the first points are reasons why one may feel they need a clarifier in the place.

She evens pulls out a new maresilles book to illustrate the clarifier point with a highlighter as she reads it then puts the book away and goes back to building a spread as an additional question which build logically. 

How will the evening go , and how will the evening be disrupted. 

Then you realize you didnt ask the relationship. So you ask how will you feel about him.


I watched the video. What I noted is that Ms. Young-Sutton ignores specification/pairing.  Ordinarily, narration is done in conjunction with pairing if reading in-line/attendance. That’s how you find tune.
 

For example, she had the House, the Lilies and the Scythe.  The Scythe at the end of the line does not have to refer to an interruption in the evening.  It just clarifies the Lilies (Lilies + Scythe = sudden or surprising concord or agreement).  
 

The three cards described a family run business which, here, would be the restaurant that is perhaps a last minute switch or not the choice of both parties.  But it goes well (House + Lilies).  To someone’s surprise (Lilies + Scythe).

 

I also did not understand the claim of the question being vague. It was a clear and precise question.

 

The tarot book in question is one of Dr. Elias’ tomes. 

 

1 hour ago, katrinka said:

Not having a clear mind because you expected the Snake or whatever, and you got Stars-Bouquet-Key is the hallmark of a person who can't read cards. 
You seldom get the cards you would expect, else what would be the purpose of using them?

 

Yes. I thought that was a clear answer, too: she annoys you because she is Pollyanna. 

Edited by timtoldrum
Clarity
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katrinka
1 hour ago, timtoldrum said:

I watched the video. What I noted is that Ms. Young-Sutton ignores specification/pairing.  Ordinarily, narration is done in conjunction with pairing if reading in-line/attendance. That’s how you find tune.
 

For example, she had the House, the Lilies and the Scythe.  The Scythe at the end of the line does not have to refer to an interruption in the evening.  It just clarifies the Lilies (Lilies + Scythe = sudden or surprising concord or agreement).  

 

Yes. She has another one where she talks about card order, A+B as compared to B+A. She skates close to your old noun + adjective exercise (without giving any credit of course.) She was saying how they could be read as narrative or descriptive, but she kept switching back and forth, saying she was doing one but doing the other. And she uses dud meanings, like "confusion" for Clouds. 
 

Quote

I also did not understand the claim of the question being vague. It was a clear and precise question.

 

I guess when she isn't blaming the cards, she blames the question. 
She's doing damage. There's going to be some very confused new readers.
 

Quote

The tarot book in question is one of Dr. Elias’ tomes. 

 

I didn't watch that part. (I can only take these videos in small doses, they're like nails on a chalkboard.) 
But I remember the Lenormand readings Camila used to put on her blog. She'd lay cards and forcefit them to what she wanted them to say. (I still remember that glorious video Malkiel did where he read what one of her spreads was actually saying.)
The people trying to learn from these videos will be trekking over to that blog. 

 

Quote

Yes. I thought that was a clear answer, too: she annoys you because she is Pollyanna. 


Yes, and something else, Stars and Bouquet were before the Key. That makes them shaky and uncertain.

Edited by katrinka
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