New to Lenormand looking for a book about combinations.

[Guest]

Hi!

 

I'm new to Lenormand and I have/and am reading Andy's book 36 cards and Björns Meuris first book. I´m searching for a book that deep dives more into the meanings and combinations of the cards. Could you perhaps point me in the right direction?

 

Both books can refer to a card or a pair, and say "If this pair comes up it can mean this or that" That sort of information. I get frustrated because I want more information about it. It is like Saying A and never B. Do you get what I mean?

Edited August 12, 2021 by Guest

[katrinka]

Actually it's best to avoid combination lists. At most, read through them while considering the logic behind them, then forget them. They're suggestions and we shouldn't be locked into them. Lenormand requires learning how to combine cards yourself.

[WizardintheWoods]

@katrinka is 110% right. It takes time to learn making your own combinations and I know as a new person that can be both daunting and frustrating, you want to read better now and I get that. Take the examples that are already in Bjorn and Andy’s book and use those to work from, you really don’t need much more then that. Take it from someone who learned/is learning the hard way, it easier to invest the time up front then have to un-learn things later on. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by WizardintheWoods

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Smilla said:

Hi!

 

I'm new to Lenormand and I have/and am reading Andy's book 36 cards and Björns Meuris first book. I´m searching for a book that deep dives more into the meanings and combinations of the cards. Could you perhaps point me in the right direction?

 

Both books can refer to a card or a pair, and say "If this pair comes up it can mean this or that" That sort of information. I get frustrated because I want more information about it. It is like Saying A and never B. Do you get what I mean?

I do understand. I (andy) made a conscious decision not to include combination list because combinations are context specific. During the writing process I did write mirrors (the reverse) for any combination cite but my editor removed them. 
 

When you say dives more deep into the meanings of the cards, could you  elaborate?  The Petit Lenormand is a construct method so the significations are by its nature concise.  

[Guest]

3 hours ago, mxlavender said:

I do understand. I (andy) made a conscious decision not to include combination list because combinations are context specific. During the writing process I did write mirrors (the reverse) for any combination cite but my editor removed them. 
 

When you say dives more deep into the meanings of the cards, could you  elaborate?  The Petit Lenormand is a construct method so the significations are by its nature concise.  

Well, in some places different pairs are considered almost a fact, for example, pregnancy. Are there any more pairings that one should know? I would like to have the information, and then figure out if this is true for me. I have seen (on different pages on the web) where card meanings change depending on if the question is about work or love. Which cards change when the cloud is near? And what does that card mean then?  (and how many cards can the cloud affect?) Should I consider the pips (spades, hearts, etc) if I do a five spread? How does that affect the overall meaning of the end result? 

Also, I have another question I have been pondering on. If it's okay, I would like to ask. If I ask a question that is, how do I say, Positive: "Why did X fall for Y"? And I get clouds + fish+ bear + mice + snake. There are so many negative cards here, how do I interpret this into something positive? Like clouds and the snake. One does seldom fall for negative traits? Which leads me to this:  Can the meanings of the cards change to positive or negative depending on the question? 

I'm sorry if this was a lot of questions. 
And thank you so much for all your answers!

Edited August 12, 2021 by Guest

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, Smilla said:

Well, in some places different pairs are considered almost a fact, for example, pregnancy.

 

Birds + Child is a pregnancy combo, but not if pregnancy is out of the question! If your sitter is past their childbearing years and also unlikely to be affected by someone else's pregnancy, it's time to find another interpretation for Birds + Child. And there are others. No Lenormand combo is limited to one, or even several interpretations. That's why combo lists are unimportant.

 

1 hour ago, Smilla said:

Are there any more pairings that one should know? I would like to have the information, and then figure out if this is true for me. I have seen (on different pages on the web) where card meanings change depending on if the question is about work or love. Which cards change when the cloud is near? And what does that card mean then?  (and how many cards can the cloud affect?)

 

ANY card that lands near the Clouds is affected. The Clouds bring trouble.
 

1 hour ago, Smilla said:

 Should I consider the pips (spades, hearts, etc) if I do a five spread? How does that affect the overall meaning of the end result? 

 

I consider the suits if one of them is heavily represented. That doesn't change the end result - a spread with a lot of Clubs is obviously going to contain some miserable cards - but it gives me an overview and a sense of the main concerns and general tone before I even start breaking down the spread.
 

1 hour ago, Smilla said:

Also, I have another question I have been pondering on. If it's okay, I would like to ask. If I ask a question that is, how do I say, Positive: "Why did X fall for Y"? And I get clouds + fish+ bear + mice + snake. There are so many negative cards here, how do I interpret this into something positive? Like clouds and the snake. One does seldom fall for negative traits? 

 

People coming out of a bad situation are vulnerable to falling for someone, often very quickly and without careful consideration. And some people are codependent, or at least caretaker types. They seek out people with issues, consciously or not. Or they might be seduced into a relationship by someone who does NOT have their best interests in mind. People fall for negative traits all the time. Look at all the dysfunctional and abusive relationships out there. One should always pay heed to negative cards and not try to frame them as positive.

 

1 hour ago, Smilla said:

Can the meanings of the cards change to positive or negative depending on the question?

Kind of, but not exactly. If you had a bad situation dragging on and on, and the Cross showed it ending, that would be good. But it would be a difficult ending. The bad cards are what's needed, sometimes. But IME they're never easy.

The good cards can be gnawed by Mice, ended by Coffin, etc. But that doesn't change the card itself to negative. It just chokes it off, renders it ineffective.

 

 

[katrinka]

4 hours ago, mxlavender said:

During the writing process I did write mirrors (the reverse) for any combination cite but my editor removed them. 

This editor you speak of should have left those in. I'd like to have seen your mirrors!

[Guest]

5 hours ago, katrinka said:

Birds + Child is a pregnancy combo, but not if pregnancy is out of the question! If your sitter is past their childbearing years and also unlikely to be affected by someone else's pregnancy, it's time to find another interpretation for Birds + Child. And there are others. No Lenormand combo is limited to one, or even several interpretations. That's why combo lists are unimportant.

Yes, I understand that. But yet, it is somewhat important to know/learn this. I want to see/know the logic behind these combinations.

 

 

5 hours ago, katrinka said:

 

ANY card that lands near the Clouds is affected. The Clouds bring trouble.
 

 

This is confusing to me. It is so vague. And what do you mean by the word near? Is it the three cards or the two cards next to the cloud? (depending on the spread I am doing) Like how do you mean trouble? HOW does the meaning of the card next to it change? 

 

5 hours ago, katrinka said:

This editor you speak of should have left those in. I'd like to have seen your mirrors!

As I am saying, me too!

 

Thank you for your other answers! I must ponder on this.  🤩 🤔

[katrinka]

50 minutes ago, Smilla said:

Yes, I understand that. But yet, it is somewhat important to know/learn this. I want to see/know the logic behind these combinations.

 

It's just regular logic. You find what works.

 

50 minutes ago, Smilla said:

This is confusing to me. It is so vague.

 

A trouble card like Clouds having ill effects on nearby cards is vague? How so?
It's pretty cut and dried.
 

50 minutes ago, Smilla said:

And what do you mean by the word near? Is it the three cards or the two cards next to the cloud?

 

You don't know what near is?
You stated that you have Andy's book, and Bjorn's. It's in there. I suggest you work through the books.
 

50 minutes ago, Smilla said:

(depending on the spread I am doing) Like how do you mean trouble? HOW does the meaning of the card next to it change?

It's a big storm cloud. What do storms do? They damage things. They disrupt and cause things to shut down. They cause worry and financial loss, and they can be dangerous. Apply that storm situation to the neighboring cards.

Why are you asking us to explain the meaning of Clouds and what 'near' is when you have books?

Edited August 13, 2021 by katrinka

[Raggydoll]

I do think it will help a lot to finish those books because, like Katrinka said, so much of what you find confusing now is explained in there. 
 

I once took a lenormand webinar by Mary K Greer and the participants practiced card combinations there. Everyone was asked to come up with suggestions, which was such a fun exercise. But that was also when it became very clear that you need context, cause thats what makes your readings on point. Otherwise you just end up with a lot of “could mean” or “could potentially indicate”, which may or may not be relevant at all.
 

When you learn what the cards mean, you will be able to understand combinations. Your brain will work it out for you, I’m sure 😊 And if you’re interested in the near/far-from aspects to cards like Clouds then finish Andy’s book and all will be revealed! 😉

[gregory]

I think if you REALLY work through Andy's book, you'll be OK. You don't have to overthink (like - what is "near". Think of it, maybe as "the closer it is, the more it affects the other card...)  You will learn to read it within the context. As for

 

Quote

Well, in some places different pairs are considered almost a fact, for example, pregnancy

 

I am suddenly reminded of the 50+, very experienced reader herself, I know, who was given a reading that INSISTED she was pregnant even though she could not possibly be - because - well the cards said so. You cannot be that hidebound. After you have Andy's (or another really good) book burned into your brain will be the time that the combinations start to illuminate themselves. Have you read the books you have - could you state all that you have learned from memory already ? Don't try to run before you can walk - but once you have been taught to walk, running comes naturally.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by gregory

[Guest]

Maybe that was a bad example with the "near" question, but sometimes I feel that I want more information. I have a hard time explaining things ;D Another example on page 110 in Andy's book, you are supposed to choose two nouns and two adjectives per card. The last sentence on that page is "The cards immediately following that card elaborate on the topic, like a qualifying adjective. For this reason, make sure you have a noun for both near and far meanings."  I would like some examples, how do you mean? 
Also, small footnote English is not my first language.

 

Edit: You all are right, I will try to calm down and learn to walk before I run. I´m sorry if i clog up the forum 🙂 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Guest

[gregory]

Questions are good - but it gets very easy to overthink things;.

 

Page 110. OK - suppose you use the words Andy suggests: Grief and journey as nouns and sorrowfiul and anxious as the adjectives. And suppose the next card is Letter. (caveat - I am VERY much still learning and hadn't got to page 110 yet...)

 

That letter (if I am getting it right) would bring sadness: news if Letter is near, or something needing you to travel if further away.. (I hope katrinka will now show up and set me right, as she is experienced and I am very much - not !)

Edited August 13, 2021 by gregory

[katrinka]

You're doing fine, gregs. Those are just exercises to get beginners used to combining cards. So you just work through it.
Don't fall into thinking that the cards are always noun-adjective, or that it's a rule. (I've seen that happen! 😬)

[gregory]

Oh great. OK - see @Smilla - just following Andy's book will work if you give it time !

[JudyReadsCards]

One of us should go back in time and kill that first person who was about to say "Lenormand cards are read as combinations" instead of "Lenormand cards are read in combination". 😉

[katrinka]

5 minutes ago, JudyReadsCards said:

One of us should go back in time and kill that first person who was about to say "Lenormand cards are read as combinations" instead of "Lenormand cards are read in combination". 😉

Agreed.

[gregory]

That makes SO much sense.

[WizardintheWoods]

Hop in and I will drive 

[katrinka]

[Sentire]

I can really understand your need of combination meanings. Not so long ago I roamed the internet myself to find al kinds of combinations. But!....there really is no need for that,  I had to learn that for myself first. Somebody telling me I did not have to know combinatios,  would trigger feelings in me of me not being able to, because everybode else is better bla bla bla....

It clicked with me when I learned to do a test reading with exactly the same cards, same positions, but with a different question. Question 1: Tell me something about my worksituation, question 2: Can you tell me if I will be in contact with my youngest daughter again?  Than for example, the ring with the woman would mean a contract in the one, but a relationship in the other (not exactly remembering it, but just trying to make it clear). So if you learn the keywords for every card, you will win the race!! Combinations will come and I think you will keep learning and discovering your own. 😃

[Guest]

Oh, good suggestion Sentire! Thank you!

 

Edit: And, that is another thing, the keywords. I feel I don´t have all the keywords I need to answer a question sometimes. What is a good source to trust outside of Andys and Björn's books?

Edited August 19, 2021 by Guest

[katrinka]

You don't need a lot of keywords. Too many will fuzz up the picture. Just try to grasp the essences of the cards, and put that in context.
These blog posts of Andy's might help.

 

https://circlestead.com/2021/04/09/eikṓn-equals-essence-the-pictures-on-the-petit-lenormand/

https://circlestead.com/2021/04/19/the-three-rs-reading-the-combos-in-the-petit-lenormand/

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by katrinka

[gregory]

49 minutes ago, katrinka said:

You don't need a lot of keywords. Too many will fuzz up the picture. Just try to grasp the essences of the cards, and put that in context.
These blog posts of Andy's might help.

 

 

Overthinking is the bane of divination. Just do it !

[Guest]

Thank you both! Yes, I try to think about not overthinking things. But, sometimes a card doesn´t fit until I get a suggestion from someone that knows more than me. And when I search around that keyword existed for the card on a site somewhere.