Different meanings/energy from same cards in different decks?

[FallenAngel]

I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts on this please, as a newbie trying to figure all this out!

 

I am learning with the RWS. I really like the imagery and feel it's assisting with my learning. I have a few other Tarot decks which I bought predominantly for the imagery, but want to build my relationship with the RWS first and feel more comfortable with the card meanings before branching out.

 

Out of curiosity though, I compared The Fool card from the RWS with the one from the Starchild Tarot (Akashic version), which is called 'Starseed' in that deck. Whilst the meanings from the Starchild LWB are similar as it's based on the RWS system, from just looking at the cards' imagery I feel like I get a different energies from them and interpret them slightly differently.

 

This isn't necessarily specific to the Starchild deck. I watch quite a lot of deck walk-throughs on YouTube and I get different energies from the cards and tend to interpret them differently to the RWS - as do the people talking about them.

 

My question is, whichever deck you use, do you draw on the meaning of the card from whichever one of the major systems the deck uses, or do you draw upon the feelings the card evokes and your interpretation of the imagery for your readings? Or do you use both?

 

I guess I'm confused, and this jars with my 'scientist' mind - in my job I have to use standardised assessments to ensure that no matter who I am administering the assessment to, the assessment is delivered in the same way (as much as possible) to ensure an accurate (as much as can be) result across different people.

 

If card meanings can be interpreted in different ways dependent on the imagery/energy of the deck, then does this mean the traditional meanings of the major Tarot systems are redundant?

 

I hope this doesn't come across as disrespectful to Tarot, because that's not my intention. I'm genuinely confused about how to navigate the use of different decks. Like I say, my logical brain is having trouble, but maybe I need to put logic aside here and develop my intuition. I would appreciate any thoughts and reflections on this, thanks 🙂

 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by FallenAngel
spelling errors

[gregory]

"Traditional meanings" are not redundant. They will probably be burned into your brain, and will kick in when you pull the fool from some other deck, whatever it looks like - but I'd say - you add that to what you see in front of you (unless you read the way I do which - no let's NOT go there )

 

Can you not see the "traditional" underlying every fool you pull ?

 Here's a few for you to test

   

[gregory]

Though actually I agree that that Starseed card is something else.... That's not a deck I am fond of.

[Raggydoll]

I use both my core understanding of each card and the impression I’m getting from the imagery in front of me. But what I get from the imagery and the context of the reading is always number one and I’m not afraid to say whatever comes to me. Typically my intuition can pick up on things that aren’t specifically implied in the cards, but I don’t think that I’ve ever had my intuition say something that was contradicted by the cards. That’s an important distinction. If a reader knows from experience that their intuitive hits are relevant and have a high level of accuracy then I think it makes no sense whatsoever to ignore it! 🙂
 

[FallenAngel]

5 minutes ago, gregory said:

"Traditional meanings" are not redundant. They will probably be burned into your brain, and will kick in when you pull the fool from some other deck, whatever it looks like - but I'd say - you add that to what you see in front of you (unless you read the way I do which - no let's NOT go there )

 

Can you not see the "traditional" underlying every fool you pull ?

 Here's a few for you to test

   

 

Thanks Gregory, the first two I could see quickly, but it took me a while longer for the third and I still need to have a think about that one!

 

 

4 minutes ago, gregory said:

Though actually I agree that that Starseed card is something else.... That's not a deck I am fond of.

 

Yes, I bought the deck a few years ago when I'd first started looking at the Tarot, but it has sat in its box. Since I started working with the RWS I have looked through it again and I'm not sure I like it. I will keep it though and try it out at some point to see how I get on with it. Originally I bought it because I thought it looked "pretty", but I look at it now and feel it's a bit too perfect and  "pretty" 😬

 

[Raggydoll]

The starseed tarot is not my thing either. But I have in the past read with decks that do not appeal to me at all. Like the gendron tarot. I thought it was so poorly executed but it still read well and I used it because I couldn’t easily get another one (there were no tarot internet shops back then, and the tiny store that had sold decks had closed…) I had bought the Gendron without knowing what it looked like, because there were no opened decks that you could look at and there certainly were no video flip-throughs on the internet back then 😆 Funnily enough, my clients liked that deck. It was even more popular than the RWS, which was the only other deck I had 😄

[FallenAngel]

21 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

The starseed tarot is not my thing either. But I have in the past read with decks that do not appeal to me at all. Like the gendron tarot. I thought it was so poorly executed but it still read well and I used it because I couldn’t easily get another one (there were no tarot internet shops back then, and the tiny store that had sold decks had closed…) I had bought the Gendron without knowing what it looked like, because there were no opened decks that you could look at and there certainly were no video flip-throughs on the internet back then 😆 Funnily enough, my clients liked that deck. It was even more popular than the RWS, which was the only other deck I had 😄

 

Going back to not having tarot internet shops might not be a bad thing, in terms of my "collecting" and FOMO tendencies 😆

[FallenAngel]

35 minutes ago, Raggydoll said:

I use both my core understanding of each card and the impression I’m getting from the imagery in front of me. But what I get from the imagery and the context of the reading is always number one and I’m not afraid to say whatever comes to me. Typically my intuition can pick up on things that aren’t specifically implied in the cards, but I don’t think that I’ve ever had my intuition say something that was contradicted by the cards. That’s an important distinction. If a reader knows from experience that their intuitive hits are relevant and have a high level of accuracy then I think it makes no sense whatsoever to ignore it! 🙂
 

 

In terms of intuition I think that's the part of me that I have struggled to trust for a long time. So I guess learning Tarot will be a great way to hone that skill 🙂

[Raggydoll]

27 minutes ago, FallenAngel said:

 

In terms of intuition I think that's the part of me that I have struggled to trust for a long time. So I guess learning Tarot will be a great way to hone that skill 🙂

I’m sure it will! 

[katrinka]

I read what's on the table.
There's no standard set of "traditional meanings" that covers all Tarots. The Golden Dawn is quite different from Wirth, for instance.
I see the cards as rote meanings combined with the image and distilled to essence. Waite and Crowley's Fools are quite different from this one:

 

While I study the cards rather than just looking at the pictures, the images are certainly relevant! Things change from deck to deck and system to system.
 

2 hours ago, gregory said:

"Traditional meanings" are not redundant. They will probably be burned into your brain, and will kick in when you pull the fool from some other deck, whatever it looks like - but I'd say - you add that to what you see in front of you

This.

[gregory]

3 hours ago, FallenAngel said:

 

Thanks Gregory, the first two I could see quickly, but it took me a while longer for the third and I still need to have a think about that one!

 

 

 

Yes, I bought the deck a few years ago when I'd first started looking at the Tarot, but it has sat in its box. Since I started working with the RWS I have looked through it again and I'm not sure I like it. I will keep it though and try it out at some point to see how I get on with it. Originally I bought it because I thought it looked "pretty", but I look at it now and feel it's a bit too perfect and  "pretty" 😬

 

 

I bought it because someone I was meeting up with wanted rid of it. He bought lunch; I think I gained !

 

2 hours ago, FallenAngel said:

 

In terms of intuition I think that's the part of me that I have struggled to trust for a long time. So I guess learning Tarot will be a great way to hone that skill 🙂

 

It will indeed....

 

1 hour ago, katrinka said:

I read what's on the table.
There's no standard set of "traditional meanings" that covers all Tarots. The Golden Dawn is quite different from Wirth, for instance.
I see the cards as rote meanings combined with the image and distilled to essence. Waite and Crowley's Fools are quite different from this one:

 

While I study the cards rather than just looking at the pictures, the images are certainly relevant! Things change from deck to deck and system to system.
 

This.

 

Why thank you !

[FallenAngel]

1 hour ago, katrinka said:

I read what's on the table.
There's no standard set of "traditional meanings" that covers all Tarots. The Golden Dawn is quite different from Wirth, for instance.
I see the cards as rote meanings combined with the image and distilled to essence. Waite and Crowley's Fools are quite different from this one:

 

While I study the cards rather than just looking at the pictures, the images are certainly relevant! Things change from deck to deck and system to system.

 

Thanks for your perspective @katrinka, and thanks also for the link to that thread. I will take a look 🙂

 

 

[Dixiechick80]

I know what you mean! Actually, I've learned not to get too hung up on the definition of the cards and to look at any adjacent cards to the one I pulled if those clarify the meaning. You know what I mean? Every deck tells the story in its own unique way. To get a clearer picture, I offer this as a potential method:

 

When the card comes up....how do YOU feel about it? Knowing it's definition is only part of the battle. The other part is how does it make you feel? Another handy tip, see yourself in the image to get a better idea of how it feels. Some people can look at the image and get the feelings, while others have to put themselves in the position in the card in order to understand how it fits into the story.

 

Also, don't feel like you have to have an answer right away. Give yourself a moment to look at the card that lays before you and tap in to your intuition to find it's meaning. ❤️💜❤️

[FallenAngel]

Thanks @Dixiechick80 I think it comes down to trusting what I feel 😆 Sometimes I get strong feelings with cards, and some not so much. Like you say, it might be I just need to take a moment and sit with the card(s) and feel what comes up 🙂

[DanielJUK]

It's definitely worth doing what everyone is saying here and thinking of a "core meaning" for each card. You can take your time in your tarot studies but take each card and think what is the card's main meaning? What is it saying? I think what is it saying to you personally is important. Some people assign 2 or 3 keywords for this. Let's take the example of The Fool in this thread. I also base my reference meanings on the RWS deck, but not everyone does. But in that image, The Fool is starting off on their journey and it's also the first card of the deck and so I would pick Beginnings as a theme. The Fool begins with just their kit bag behind them and their dog, there is no boundaries or rules ahead and so it's an open book about what happens. So I would also choose Potential, things could really develop into the future and they have faith going forwards to something better. Finally this Fool is a risk taker, they are stepping and they are a Free Spirit and have confidence ahead going into the unknown and taking a risk, leaping into things. Others might disagree with my core ideas about the card but it's about finding your view of it. However be prepared to have this view altered, over time I have changed my ideas and it's a good idea to be open to that or seeing someone's amazing ideas on this forum which inspires you 🙂

 

So you have your core ideas of a card, then you apply them. Look at the Starseed card, it's not the most easy version of the The Fool for sure, I am not sure I like it. But let's take the core meanings, someone is manifesting something on to the person below, something new is happening (Beginnings), the manifesting is Potential ahead. This is all flying through the air and clouds, so there is the confidence in the unknown and the free spirit ideology about it. Then look at gregory's card suggestions, you can apply the core ideas to them as well. Gawd the learnt meanings are seared in my brain now 😆

 

Having core ideas about a card is a useful foundation for your reading but it makes quite generic readings for people. So I have an order of how I approach the cards in my readings. First I go with my intuitive senses of the card, how does it make me feel? hear? touch? see? taste? Am I getting anything intuitively for it. Secondly I go with reading the artwork, literally looking and studying it. What do I get from it? Do any symbols or stories jump out at me? Thirdly I use the core meaning or keywords. Sometimes I just cannot get anything intuitively or cannot read the artwork, so that learnt ideas about each card or a foundation of it can be very useful!

 

When studying tarot you begin to learn this, you have an idea about each card and it becomes much easier to read whatever card comes up in front of you 🙂

You are not being disrespectful at all, this is a common problem and glad you brought it up @FallenAngel

[TheStarOfCups]

I think decks with guidebook definitions can be used as a tool to help get a more accurate reading. How you feel when you look at a card definitely affects the meaning which is why I think it's so good that there are so many tarot readers! We get lots of different stories for lots of different people who want readings!

 

I think that when I read, I read intuively. I'm paying attention to a lot of details to relay the correct message. I use the core meaning of the cards and whatever it is that my spiritual teams is guiding me to look at in order to understand. Typically, if a deck that has a guidebook, I use that knowledge to also help me decipher the message. I use the deck's guidebook definition or story to give me more information in combination with the imagery of the card and original meaning of the card. That way, I can get a fuller picture in the reading.   

 

 

[katrinka]

I think the image and the guidebook should match, they should express the same idea or concept.
You might have a mystical Fool about to fall into matter, or a grubby madman, or a guy about to step on a crocodile, or something else. All of these would be read differently, but the text should be relevant to the art. It should illuminate it.

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by katrinka

[FallenAngel]

6 hours ago, DanielJUK said:

It's definitely worth doing what everyone is saying here and thinking of a "core meaning" for each card. You can take your time in your tarot studies but take each card and think what is the card's main meaning? What is it saying? I think what is it saying to you personally is important. Some people assign 2 or 3 keywords for this. Let's take the example of The Fool in this thread. I also base my reference meanings on the RWS deck, but not everyone does. But in that image, The Fool is starting off on their journey and it's also the first card of the deck and so I would pick Beginnings as a theme. The Fool begins with just their kit bag behind them and their dog, there is no boundaries or rules ahead and so it's an open book about what happens. So I would also choose Potential, things could really develop into the future and they have faith going forwards to something better. Finally this Fool is a risk taker, they are stepping and they are a Free Spirit and have confidence ahead going into the unknown and taking a risk, leaping into things. Others might disagree with my core ideas about the card but it's about finding your view of it. However be prepared to have this view altered, over time I have changed my ideas and it's a good idea to be open to that or seeing someone's amazing ideas on this forum which inspires you 🙂

 

So you have your core ideas of a card, then you apply them. Look at the Starseed card, it's not the most easy version of the The Fool for sure, I am not sure I like it. But let's take the core meanings, someone is manifesting something on to the person below, something new is happening (Beginnings), the manifesting is Potential ahead. This is all flying through the air and clouds, so there is the confidence in the unknown and the free spirit ideology about it. Then look at gregory's card suggestions, you can apply the core ideas to them as well. Gawd the learnt meanings are seared in my brain now 😆

 

Having core ideas about a card is a useful foundation for your reading but it makes quite generic readings for people. So I have an order of how I approach the cards in my readings. First I go with my intuitive senses of the card, how does it make me feel? hear? touch? see? taste? Am I getting anything intuitively for it. Secondly I go with reading the artwork, literally looking and studying it. What do I get from it? Do any symbols or stories jump out at me? Thirdly I use the core meaning or keywords. Sometimes I just cannot get anything intuitively or cannot read the artwork, so that learnt ideas about each card or a foundation of it can be very useful!

 

When studying tarot you begin to learn this, you have an idea about each card and it becomes much easier to read whatever card comes up in front of you 🙂

You are not being disrespectful at all, this is a common problem and glad you brought it up @FallenAngel

 

Thanks so much @DanielJUK it's reassuring that retaining the core ideas of each card is important - I was beginning to wonder if I was on the right track with my studying 😆 and thanks for talking through your process of approaching the cards in your readings. A large part of this for me is also about taking in what I personally sense from the cards. Learning the definition is the "easier" bit. Learning to listen to my senses about the card and what this might mean in the context of the reading seems like something that takes more time, and trust in myself.

 

5 hours ago, TheStarOfCups said:

I think decks with guidebook definitions can be used as a tool to help get a more accurate reading. How you feel when you look at a card definitely affects the meaning which is why I think it's so good that there are so many tarot readers! We get lots of different stories for lots of different people who want readings!

 

I think that when I read, I read intuively. I'm paying attention to a lot of details to relay the correct message. I use the core meaning of the cards and whatever it is that my spiritual teams is guiding me to look at in order to understand. Typically, if a deck that has a guidebook, I use that knowledge to also help me decipher the message. I use the deck's guidebook definition or story to give me more information in combination with the imagery of the card and original meaning of the card. That way, I can get a fuller picture in the reading.   

 

 

 

@TheStarOfCups that's really good to know about keeping the core meanings in mind, and then drawing on intuition or any guides you have working with you. Thank you 🙂

 

4 hours ago, katrinka said:

I think the image and the guidebook should match, they should express the same idea or concept.
You might have a mystical Fool about to fall into matter, or a grubby madman, or a guy about to step on a crocodile, or something else. All of these would be read differently, but the text should be relevant to the art. It should illuminate it.

 

 

Yes I agree with this @katrinka It would get really confusing if the LWB contradicted the art!

 

[Jewel]

This is a fascinating topic and I agree with everything that has been said, and I appreciate your challenge with this is as well.  I collect decks, and one of the things I love doing is comparing the cards from different decks.  Like @DanielJUK and many others here I have some base key words seared in my brain, but they are only starting points for me, I let the card imagery expand on those.  What I find when looking at several cards from different decks (same card) is how they pick up on different aspects of the same base concept and expand my view of the card.  You can see the base recurring theme, and then some decks bring out certain aspects of the meaning of the card while others highlight other aspects of the concept.  It is really fascinating and helpful in expanding ones understanding of the card.  Great to journal about the similarities and differences you see.