Attempting to Worship an Unfamiliar Deity

[zedekiel]

Hi friends, yesterday I was visited by a deity which felt like the natural next step in my spiritual path. I would like to extend my worship in the direction of this deity, at least for some time, as I have done before with others. The only thing is that I am not only less acquainted with the culture this deity comes from (Welsh instead of my usual Greco-Roman) but also very little information is known in how traditional worship of this deity works. Things like offerings, sacred sybols, colours, herbs, words, animals connections, etc, are all things I usually research into extensively and incorporate into my practice. I was just wondering if this obstacle has been one anyone else has had to face, and also general experiences of deity or entity worship as of late? Thanks in advance 

[Marina]

I believe studying a specific Deities symbols and myths - regardless of how little information is available - is already part of a devotion somehow. No one knows FOR SURE how pagans of the past practiced their devotion - many pagan cultures did not leave anything written, and those that did would not share the secrets involved in the practice (and there were many aspects only the initiated in the temples knew about). So I think it's okay to build a practice based on what your research, even if it is not a perfect rendition of what was traditionally done (which no one really knows). If the Deity has called you, then They are seeking to open a communication pathway with you, and I am sure They will somehow let you know the best ways to honour Them.

 

I always prefer to start it simple: light a candle, make an offering (a libation of wine or mead) and state that I am open to honouring and serving this force which has called to me, in the best way that I can.

Then I wait and see if the communication continues and where it takes me.

[katrinka]

59 minutes ago, zedekiel said:

Hi friends, yesterday I was visited by a deity which felt like the natural next step in my spiritual path. I would like to extend my worship in the direction of this deity, at least for some time, as I have done before with others. The only thing is that I am not only less acquainted with the culture this deity comes from (Welsh instead of my usual Greco-Roman) but also very little information is known in how traditional worship of this deity works. Things like offerings, sacred sybols, colours, herbs, words, animals connections, etc, are all things I usually research into extensively and incorporate into my practice. I was just wondering if this obstacle has been one anyone else has had to face, and also general experiences of deity or entity worship as of late? Thanks in advance 

 

I don't know how you were "visited" - a dream? Something else? - but I would treat it as a symbolic event, not a call to worship.
Deities are not a buffet. If Greco-Roman is working for you, stay with that.
Additionally, if much of the information is lost, this deity hasn't seen proper worship in a long time. The egregore may have deteriorated to the point that it's essentially a dead god that does nothing, at best. At worst, it might be offended at being approached improperly.
I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

[fire cat pickles]

3 minutes ago, katrinka said:

The egregore may have deteriorated to the point that it's essentially a dead god that does nothing, at best. At worst, it might be offended at being approached improperly.
I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

 

I agree with @katrinka My first gut instinct was that this could be dangerous. And we don't agree often 😉 If we do, it must be significant. Of course, this is just our opinion.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by fire cat pickles

[zedekiel]

9 minutes ago, katrinka said:

 

I don't know how you were "visited" - a dream? Something else? - but I would treat it as a symbolic event, not a call to worship.
Deities are not a buffet. If Greco-Roman is working for you, stay with that.
Additionally, if much of the information is lost, this deity hasn't seen proper worship in a long time. The egregore may have deteriorated to the point that it's essentially a dead god that does nothing, at best. At worst, it might be offended at being approached improperly.
I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

 

6 minutes ago, fire cat pickles said:

 

I agree with @katrinka My first gut instinct was that this could be dangerous. And we don't agree often 😉 If we do, it must be significant. Of course, this is just our opinion.

 

 

Very important points to take note of! I think actually viewing it as an event as you said @katrinka would be better for me for now, although one that had an open door involved. 

 

It was during a ritual+meditation which I was not actively attempting to invite anything specific other than deities and guides that have continued to work with me. I only have 1 that I definitely worship above all others, and a very small number of others who I regularly work with, who that initial patron has introduced me to. This new one was introduced in a similar fashion to these other guides, and it has historical roots, connections, and equivalencies with my main deity that I work with. The stark thing was that, from what I know of this deity, it has connections to many (if not all) of the secondary deities I work with, in what they each hold power and governance over. That's one of the reasons why it seemed so stark to be visited by this deity, as it seemed an amalgamation of much of the work I've been doing for the past 5 years, and in truth, much of my life.

 

The point about the possibility of it being a dead god is a good one, and to keep in mind. The way so many energies gain their power is through collective union and it seems this deity has a complex relationship with the collective, though not completely absent.

 

32 minutes ago, marinaoracles said:

 

I always prefer to start it simple: light a candle, make an offering (a libation of wine or mead) and state that I am open to honouring and serving this force which has called to me, in the best way that I can.

Then I wait and see if the communication continues and where it takes me.

Whole comment offered very good insights, thank you. I think combining the opinions here, it may be best for me to leave simple offerings and communications that open the door to understanding exactly what our relationship should be, and through that finding ways to worship if it seems appropriate, perhaps.

[Decan]

I have read that spirits are of different sorts, beneficial or less beneficial..., and so those who come in contact with them for the purpose of practicing magic are very careful about "who" exactly they contact.

If there is not sufficient information about the spirit in question, I believe that many would not contact this spirit, who is not necessarily a deity.

Of course it's only my view here.

Take care _/\_

Edited September 21, 2021 by Decan

[katrinka]

56 minutes ago, Decan said:

I have read that spirits are of different sorts, beneficial or less beneficial..., and so those who come in contact with them for the purpose of practicing magic are very careful about "who" exactly they contact.

If there is not sufficient information about the spirit in question, I believe that many would not contact this spirit, which is not necessarily a deity.

Of course it's only my view here.

It's a very widely held view, and I'm not referring to evangelicals who assume everything outside their church is the devil.
I read an anecdote once about a Western Buddhist on a retreat with Tibetans. He asked one of the Tibetans what his experience was during the last meditation they did. The Tibetan replied kind of blandly "I saw Tara." Of course the Western guy wanted to know why he wasn't super excited by this. The reason? "I have no way of knowing if it was really her."

 

Things seen in dreams, visions, and meditations often "wear masks." They're symbolic, not meant to be taken at face value. Imagine taking dreams literally - people would be showing up at their old schools naked. 🤣

[zedekiel]

8 hours ago, katrinka said:

Imagine taking dreams literally - people would be showing up at their old schools naked. 🤣

Fantasies can be a strong thing, next time I'm in front of a crowd I must demand them each to remove their pants lest I feel too nervous to speak in front of them..

 

I suppose now I am at a pondering point of wondering when the "mask" of any given entity could slip off. I don't want to be so presumptuous as to assume that I'd be more knowledgeable than a monk, or any given person who has come across some kind of energy trying to contact them wearing the shape of another, these things can be tough to decipher for anyone.

[Marina]

1 hour ago, zedekiel said:

Fantasies can be a strong thing, next time I'm in front of a crowd I must demand them each to remove their pants lest I feel too nervous to speak in front of them..

 

I suppose now I am at a pondering point of wondering when the "mask" of any given entity could slip off. I don't want to be so presumptuous as to assume that I'd be more knowledgeable than a monk, or any given person who has come across some kind of energy trying to contact them wearing the shape of another, these things can be tough to decipher for anyone.

 

My very personal experience (mostly with Paganism and Umbanda, so I can't really speak for other creeds) is that... usually, terrible entities don't come out of nowhere to mess you up just because they feel like it. They tend to approach people who are dealing with stuff that involve the type of energy they work with. Mephistopheles didn't show up to Faust when he was picking flowers in the meadow. My grandmother works with a LOT of people who come with all sorts of negative things attached to them - they either got there because someone specifically sent it their direction, or they were messing around with dangerous entities they didn't understand, because they wanted to get something out of them.

 

Personally, I believe there are forces aligned with energies we perceive as harmful. But dealing with them is not really the kind of thing you walk into unawares. Unless, of course, you have someone very angry at you, who also happens to be a very competent magician (or have enough money to hire one). Even in that case, the result usually involves general bad things happening around you, and not the entitity coming to chat you up.

 

I think that, if you feel unsure, maybe honour the call by thanking them (it never hurts to be polite), but do not open yourself further to it. If you have guides... or a patron deity, or a force that you work with... ask Them to protect you and help you perceive the truth about this communication. I agree with the above responses, that you don't need to change anything in your routine practice to accomodate this entity, but I also think that if it was an experience that had an impact on you, you should at least listen to it.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by marinaoracles

[Decan]

9 hours ago, katrinka said:

It's a very widely held view, and I'm not referring to evangelicals who assume everything outside their church is the devil.
I read an anecdote once about a Western Buddhist on a retreat with Tibetans. He asked one of the Tibetans what his experience was during the last meditation they did. The Tibetan replied kind of blandly "I saw Tara." Of course the Western guy wanted to know why he wasn't super excited by this. The reason? "I have no way of knowing if it was really her."

What you are refering about the evangelicals makes me think a little to Doreen Virtue since she awakened to the Realm of the Real. 🙂

Here the evangelicals are not very present or it’s something I’m not aware; but not like in the US I’m sure.

 

For the Buddhist monk, ah ah yes, such a great practitioner!!

Visions can be considered as a distraction and possibly a subtle attachment. But it’s Buddhist, while I read that the Orthodox Christians advise to don’t give an importance to visions when they arise (their heart prayer looks like a mantra, the reason I read a little on that).

Well, just a little parenthesis.

[Decan]

Your post makes sense @marinaoracles and I agree with it; your following sentence is also an eloquent summary!

43 minutes ago, marinaoracles said:

Mephistopheles didn't show up to Faust when he was picking flowers in the meadow.

 

Your personal background is very strong regarding this topic, I'm impressed!

On my part I simply have had an intellectual interest past few years regarding Black American Conjure and I think that their answer would have been the same or so.

There is a book by Miss Aida on the topic of Protection that was released lately (Hoodoo cleansing and protection magic); I read it and it is likely of some interest, but I was nevertheless a little suprised because I won't say that it is completely Hoodoo oriented. I can't completely judge about that but there are blends and personal additions IMO, so...

Nevertheless the lady has a deep traditional background regarding Hoodoo. Possibly she wanted to enlarge things and so her audience concerning this book.

 

Katrinka points out to use a sort of very effective "magic wand" in many areas, below! I think it's quite true!! lol

 

[katrinka]

1 hour ago, Decan said:

What you are refering about the evangelicals makes me think a little to Doreen Virtue since she awakened to the Realm of the Real. 🙂

Here the evangelicals are not very present or it’s something I’m not aware; but not like in the US I’m sure.

 

Hopefully NOPLACE is like the US. Here, they think secular music (not just Death Metal or whatever, but ANY music that is not church music), movies, TV, books, trick or treating, science, education, other religions, other Christian sects - EVERYTHING is a tool of Satan. It's a cult, they try to use fear of the devil to isolate their followers from the rest of the world. If there's a devil, it's probably them.
 

1 hour ago, Decan said:

For the Buddhist monk, ah ah yes, such a great practitioner!!

Visions can be considered as a distraction and possibly a subtle attachment. But it’s Buddhist, while I read that the Orthodox Christians advise to don’t give an importance to visions when they arise (their heart prayer looks like a mantra, the reason I read a little on that).

Well, just a little parenthesis.

Exactly. The idea is to go past the visions and stuff. 😉

[devin]

5 hours ago, Decan said:

while I read that the Orthodox Christians advise to don’t give an importance to visions when they arise (their heart prayer looks like a mantra, the reason I read a little on that).

 

I also like their yardstick for measuring spiritual experiences: If it makes you more humble - good experience. If it makes you less humble - bad experience. To paraphrase Huston Smith: It's about altered traits, not altered states.

 

That said, I understand the modern craving for fantastical experiences.

[katrinka]

7 hours ago, devin said:

 

I also like their yardstick for measuring spiritual experiences: If it makes you more humble - good experience. If it makes you less humble - bad experience. To paraphrase Huston Smith: It's about altered traits, not altered states.

 

That's very well said. Nailed it.
 

7 hours ago, devin said:

That said, I understand the modern craving for fantastical experiences.

 

Well, yes. But there are certain cacti and fungi for that. 🤣 Use at your own (legal) risk, of course. And the user should keep in mind that they're tripping b*lls.

Edited September 22, 2021 by katrinka

[devin]

15 hours ago, katrinka said:

keep in mind that they're tripping b*lls.

 

 

To be fair, he did accurately predict the end of the world in 2012.

[Raggydoll]

Omg how did I miss this thread?! 😂 You are all too funny! I do agree with basically everyone who’s chimed in. I think it’s best to not start up anything devotional until you know exactly what/whom you are devoting your self to and what for! And it is delicate when it involves other cultures .

 

Aside from that.,, I don’t see why Americans are so hung up in their fear of the devil. Have they not heard of trolls? Ask any Scandinavian person and they’ll tell you that it’s the trolls you need to be wary about! Funny fact - when Americans say “speak of the devil”, WE say “när man talar om trollen” , aka “speak of the trolls”.

 

I refuse to believe that trolls aren’t an issue over there as well. I’ve seen much indications of troll-like characters and behaviors from across the great pond, so I think that’s the true enemy to look out for 😁

 

[zedekiel]

On 9/22/2021 at 12:38 AM, Decan said:

What you are refering about the evangelicals makes me think a little to Doreen Virtue since she awakened to the Realm of the Real. 🙂

A little off topic, but I'm glad someone brought her up here. I'm still a little bamboozled thinking of where she ended up, especially when using her decks continues to be so beneficial (and fun!) for me and my community.

 

On 9/22/2021 at 6:20 AM, devin said:

 

I also like their yardstick for measuring spiritual experiences: If it makes you more humble - good experience. If it makes you less humble - bad experience. To paraphrase Huston Smith: It's about altered traits, not altered states.

 

That said, I understand the modern craving for fantastical experiences.

I feel like i got hit about a year ago with a lesson involving this. I had been journeying quite a lot and when my astral findings started to become less, and visions harder to access, I felt like I was failing in some way, or wasn't as "special" or doing as important work. Took a look into spiritual egoism and realized I had been chasing visual boon and the equivalent of meditative macguffins as a way to make myself feel fulfilled. Really turned away from any kind of extravagant internal practice for a bit - all pearls no meat - but as I've been plodding my way back into things, my energetic experiences and connections have been getting starker as of late,  although I'm going about it with a completely different mindset. I'm not sure if I can escape the things I see as I have always been quite visually-minded (and "hearted" i guess) but I think it is very well said in this thread, and something I am continuing to work with, not to put an immense amount of importance or significance on what I see.

 

When it is something that feels quite blunt though, it is hard to describe? Almost a full-body and mind experience. It is hard to ignore, and I suppose that's what started this whole discussion. 

 

It's interesting the discussion of evangelicals has come up as I've been thinking a bit about some of their ways of thinking that I actually do think are spiritually beneficial, some which you all have brought up. There is a kind of focus on the humble, the humility, and the earthliness for the human practicing, coupled with ideas of forgiveness and a dolling out of grace for mistakes and mistroddings that I think is quite interesting as a way of thinking about one's own navigation of spiritual work. I suppose I've always been a patchwork of a spiritualist, having been raised unitarian and pagan, but for quite some time had a sour view of the orthodox religious, especially the Christians, which I can't blame myself for. But as I have moved on from a lot of it, to look back and see what actually works about those schools of belief has been interesting to say the least.

 

Maybe I'm rambling now, definitely a lot of food for thought on this thread.

[euripides]

21 hours ago, zedekiel said:

definitely a lot of food for thought on this thread.

 

Isn't there. I'm so appreciating the wisdom shared here. I like that thought of 'acknowledge, leave an offering'... though I'm in the 'leave the door firmly closed' camp, rather than 'leaving it open'.  I always have a bit of a smile to myself when people talking about 'working with deities', because to me it generally sounds like casually saying you're working with a stampeding herd of wild horses, or doing business with a hurricane. So it's nice to see a more ... cautious ... tone. 

 

 

[katrinka]

2 hours ago, euripides said:

I always have a bit of a smile to myself when people talking about 'working with deities', because to me it generally sounds like casually saying you're working with a stampeding herd of wild horses, or doing business with a hurricane. So it's nice to see a more ... cautious ... tone.

 

"Working with" is a really bizarre term for something like this. A deity isn't the lady over at the next computer, or the guy who drives a forklift and helps you get a pallet off a stack.

[euripides]

52 minutes ago, katrinka said:

 

 A deity isn't the lady over at the next computer, or the guy who drives a forklift and helps you get a pallet off a stack.

 

exactly! I see it everywhere. I figure it's some sort of offshoot of the notion of 'working magic', perhaps. It'd be interesting to see how it came about. I suspect many people don't mean it in the way that I "hear" it, but often, it does have that sense about it. 

[DarkMoge]

On 9/21/2021 at 6:55 PM, zedekiel said:

Hi friends, yesterday I was visited by a deity which felt like the natural next step in my spiritual path. I would like to extend my worship in the direction of this deity, at least for some time, as I have done before with others. The only thing is that I am not only less acquainted with the culture this deity comes from (Welsh instead of my usual Greco-Roman) but also very little information is known in how traditional worship of this deity works. Things like offerings, sacred sybols, colours, herbs, words, animals connections, etc, are all things I usually research into extensively and incorporate into my practice. I was just wondering if this obstacle has been one anyone else has had to face, and also general experiences of deity or entity worship as of late? Thanks in advance 

@zedekiel, I find it interesting how different this thread from what I expected when I saw the tittle. And how different the view expressed by this community compared to others that I saw. That is why it is interesting to see different perspectives. 

Since the overwhelming response in hear was to be cautious, I will add an opposite thought. Experiences are of value. If we see every experience as the one you are describing as an illusion or fake, than they can never be anything more than that. Though, not everything one feels is true. Why? Some who ignores their potential messages and visions is not really going to get any. Why would a spirit or deity try to message someone who would just discard their message, they wouldn't. And so, that just leads to a spiral downwards, you will get less messages and there will be more of white noise inside you, which makes it harder to believe that there is one in the first place. So, while cautious is advised, do not ignore.

From my experience, spirits, deities, etc that have your best interests in mind do not come uninvited. They tend to call you to come to them instead. Though, that does not cover all the cases, because there are also spirits connected your ancestors, guardian spirits, etc, which neither came nor called, but were always there. And it can be hard to distinguish between them.

Anyway, I think I will not be able to explain all of my thoughts in one go. Experiences are great, you do not need to establish a lasting relationship with everyone. But I encourage you to have some experience with what ever the deity that called you. Trying as many things and experiencing as many flavors can give clarity to where you actually want to be.

Also, spirits, deities, etc are capable of telling of how they want to be treated. When ever you are capable of hearing it is a different story. Doing a previous research about them is a part of showing respect, before initiating relationship. If you did your research about what kind of deity they are, it would show that you actually want to know how to treat them and they are unlikely to be offended by things that your sources got wrong. Come to them the way they have invited you.

Also, another thing to know, often times, a different name in different cultures can easily refer to the same deity. A concept of having many names is somehow seen as hard to understand, but it is not hard... I doubt that people close to you call you Zedekiel, I also doubt that you use same nickname in every community. If the idea of using a different nickname in different communities is not foreign to you than you might also understand that interacting with different cultures under different names is a part of their story. Also, this is a terribly mundane example, but it helps to begin understanding.

Depending on how good you are at listening and feeling. You could ask your deities their other names. When ever they would want to tell you is a different story. A part of relationship with a spirit is that they can tell you things under a condition that you do not tell that to anyone else. And there are things that would only tell you after establishing certain level of relationship.

 

[DarkMoge]

I also feel inspired to add.

There is difference between caution between caution and fear. Caution is something that one exercises, because they are smart and have knowledge that they can be wrong and there are things that they do not know yet. Fear is something that stops you in place, its shackles that restrain in place.

For my Mother, by which I mean my deity. Fear is a vice that should be overcome. In fact, before connecting with her there are trials of fear. Every experience is beneficial, even failures. I could say that failures are especially beneficial, because it is what you learn from. Do not be scared to be hurt, move forward.

That applies also to fear of offending someone. There is difference between respect and self loathing. Are you that horrible that even your attempts to show honour would be seen as an insult?

[katrinka]

15 hours ago, DarkMoge said:

There is difference between respect and self loathing. Are you that horrible that even your attempts to show honour would be seen as an insult?

 

Well THAT certainly sounds derisive and manipulative.

[gregory]

Fear can be extremely useful in life. It can be used very positively. As one who hasn't worshipped any deity since I was 16 or so, I don't plan to summon, or even respond, if something shows up, Nor will I worry about offending them if they do show up (I have no doubt they are out there, but worship isn't my thing.). Sure, we learn from failures. But we don't necessarily have to go through trials to learn. Some people do very well without.

 

15 hours ago, DarkMoge said:

That applies also to fear of offending someone. There is difference between respect and self loathing. Are you that horrible that even your attempts to show honour would be seen as an insult?

 

6 minutes ago, katrinka said:

Well THAT certainly sounds derisive and manipulative.

 

What she said. 

[Raggydoll]

16 hours ago, DarkMoge said:

 Some who ignores their potential messages and visions is not really going to get any. Why would a spirit or deity try to message someone who would just discard their message, they wouldn't. And so, that just leads to a spiral downwards, you will get less messages and there will be more of white noise inside you, which makes it harder to believe that there is one in the first place. So, while cautious is advised, do not ignore.

I don’t quite agree. I am selective with whom I accept/channel messages from, for sure. And I do not worship anything unfamiliar simply because I think it might have called on me. That doesn’t mean that I wont continue to receive messages through my established spirit relationships. My visions aren’t tied to unfamiliar deities. And I don’t think anyone should feel fear that if they don’t embrace or worship new entities/deities that they won’t be contacted in the future, or that all they’ll get is white noise inside of them. My experience has taught me the opposite. By being selective and by building on the most important spirit/ancestral relationships, I receive messages more clearly. Even from other spirits/sources. And I’ve never felt that I’ve had to worship them in order to communicate with them. (The topic of this thread did involve worshipping unfamiliar deities. So I interpret that as something different from mainly being curious or exploring 🙂.) 

 

16 hours ago, DarkMoge said:

From my experience, spirits, deities, etc that have your best interests in mind do not come uninvited. They tend to call you to come to them instead. Though, that does not cover all the cases, because there are also spirits connected your ancestors, guardian spirits, etc, which neither came nor called, but were always there. And it can be hard to distinguish between them.

 

From my experience, that’s very individual. Some will feel frequently approached, others not. Some will have firm protective measures in place. It also depend on what you mean by spirits who have your best interest in mind. To me, just because someone or something feels that it has my best interest in mind, that doesn’t mean that I’d be happy or that I’d thrive from doing what they suggest. It’s like with people. There are many well meaning people who will have opinions and suggestions that simply do not resonate with you. I feel that this is particularly true when there’s a big difference in culture or religion. That doesn’t mean that someone can’t find a deity from a different culture that they really resonate with. But I do think that it’s good to have a solid understanding of the context and belief system around that deity before considering a practice of worship 🙂
 

16 hours ago, DarkMoge said:

Also, spirits, deities, etc are capable of telling of how they want to be treated. When ever you are capable of hearing it is a different story. Doing a previous research about them is a part of showing respect, before initiating relationship. If you did your research about what kind of deity they are, it would show that you actually want to know how to treat them and they are unlikely to be offended by things that your sources got wrong. Come to them the way they have invited you.

I agree that research is a good thing. I also think that it’s good to contemplate not only how a spirit/entity might want to be treated, but also what your own spiritual boundaries are. And, if possible, to verify things through previously established spirit connections 🙂